No start-not main relay

J

jrehner

Experienced Member
Joined
6 June 2003
Messages
380
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I have read the other threads and thought my problem was the main relay but replacement has not corrected the problem. I am in Phoenix and started having the No start problem awhile back where I would turn the key and get nothing. Then one day I had the problem where the starter turned over but the car would not remain running or would stall. That happened just once and then no problems at all until last couple of days. Now the starter turns over but it won't start up until I make a whole lot of attempts.

After I replaced the Main Relay at first I still had a problem but after a few attempts the car started right up. I turned off and started up again and did this repeatedly with no problem. The car was cold. I then went out later and the starter turns over but the engine will not catch. Acts like it's not getting gas but after multiple attempts, I began to get a gas smell. So sometimes, the car will start right up repeatedly and other times will not.. Wiggling the key in the ignition does not seem to do anything and I don't get any engine light problem. I don't seem to be able to find a loose connection. At the clutch the little cap that keeps the wire in place is broken but the wire itself seems to be ok?
 
Check for spark first(easiest) then maybe Fuel pump or fuel filter ? (fuel pumps can be intermittant when they are going bad)
air, fuel and spark are all you need, if it's turning over, one is missing.
(Not sure if they have a test procedure for it here.)
 
So--that ticking has to do with the fuel pump--yep I hear that ticking and so it is working.

When I first had a problem way back when--nothing would happen at all but that ended. In recent months, my starter turns over just fine but the engine just won't start at times while at other times it will start right up. It doesn't matter if the engine is cold or not. So apparently the problem is not with the ignition as the starter turns over just fine.

I am not certain how to check the clutch part--I see there is a prong that goes thru a hole in the clutch arm and going back from that prong there is an electrical connection. There is a wire coming from same and there is a plastic cap that is supposed to cover the connection but it is broken or not in place but nothing appears to be wrong with the wire leading into the component.

If I continue to try and start the car it will eventually start but it could take 20 tries to just a couple tries and the next time it may start right up OR not.
 
If the engine is cranking away, you can eliminate the clutch switch and probably the ignition.

The fuel pump goes for 2 seconds when the key is turned to ON. There are a couple of relays that also click, but listen for the pump.

There is also a ignitor under the throttle body, that gives the spark.

drew
 
Drew--I turn the key to on position but hear nothing until I turn fully to engage the starter and then I hear the clicking. Tried several times and wiggled before turning the key to engage but nothing until doing so. Also I think it has been 4 years since the fuel filter has been changed (nowhere close to 60k miles but over 4 years).
 
Just to clarify, the sequence of events should be;

Turn key, you'll hear pump relay click followed by 2 seconds of low humming as the pump primes the fuel system, then a click when pressure is achieved coinciding with the ECL going out. Then try to start the car.

If the pump is not able to get the pressure up, you may have a faulty pump or pressure regulator.

Have you tried for any error codes?
 
I had the same exact problem on my 92. I took it to Shad of driving ambitions. Give him a call and let him know your situation. I believe he replaced my ignition switch. The car would start and then die because the ignition would cut off the fuel pump. Call him to verify. Hope this helps.:smile:
 
I did some careful listening. If I turn the key to engage the starter but hold it just past the last key position and just b4 the starter will start to turn I can hear the fuel pump operating. I then turn the key the remainder and the starter turns over but have not been able to start up the car now since early yesterday. Drew says I should be able to re-grease the ignition switch but my 92 manual does not seem to apply to my 93 where the ignition is concerned. Seems like all the wiring is actually bolted to the long column going back from the switch. I see a phillips head screw underneath the switch. I have all the panels removed. I got HOnda high temp urea grease but no dielectric grease (is there another name for it)
 
I have four Honda Preludes I use as airport cars and have owned Preludes since 1989. I know you say apples and oranges but the ignition switches are very similar. I have replaced three over the years. After many uses the contacts in the housings get burnt and work, or not, just like your describing. They're fairly inexpensive, (Prelude vs NSX) but to check it out is fairly simple. Follow the maintenance manual in the removal of the switch and you'll see two screws that hold the assembly together. Remove them and carefully pull the switch housing apart. Don't drop or lose any of the fiddily bits and you can clearly see the contacts. They look like four mm brass bumps that contact the housing when you twist the key. If they're burnt it will be obvious. If not, reassemble and reinstall. It's only a few conntectors after you remove the panels for acess. At least you'll know if it's bad.
I wouldn't think it would be bad because of the relative low mileage but it's a process of elimination and costs nothing.
Just re-read your post and I don't think Honda intended this switch to be owner serviced, more parts sales. I did mine just to verify problem. If it's bad you might buy a little time by cleaning up the contacts in some cases.
The grease you have will do the trick.


Cheers
nigel
 
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This 92 manual shows a harness which would pull apart (male/female connector) but I don't have that. A bunch of heavy wiring is in a harness all right but it connect via bolts not a snap fitting.

At any rate, since it's air, fuel or spark that is the issue, I decided to check the air filter. It had little leaves in it and I used shop vac to suck everything out, put in back in and the car started right up. I don't drive the car much and it last had an oil change in april of 2007 but I noted that the air filter had not been changed. I think it was checked cause those fittings were way tighter than I normally make them but not replaced.. Anyway, time will tell and I am making an appt to get the oil changed and make sure the filter is also changed this time.
 
I noticed the same happening to my 93 NSX. Sometimes it cranks but the engine won't turn over to start. This happens at odd times very seldomly. If I turn off the ignition and restart it, it will crank 2x and the engine would turn and start with no problems. I thought this was just a normal Honda issue.

Should I stop trying to guess and just take it into Acura? Or does someone have a solution without having to take everything out and guessing what it could be.
 
jrehner said:
I got HOnda high temp urea grease but no dielectric grease (is there another name for it)
Click to expand...

Yes, it is called Dow Corning DC-4 Compound. You can get it at bearing/seal dealers like Kaman Bearing. It is good for other things too like on oil filter seals/O-rings. If you have a squeeky stabilizer bushing it will lube it too.
Nigel can probably come up with a dozen other uses too. If you ever worked on aircraft you have a tube in your tool box.
Brad
 
Hey Emerald--the problem is that it could be so many things that the dealer may not be able to determine the problem until it gets worse. I did initially have the problem where nothing would happen when I turned the ignition but that ended and changed to the problem of the starter operating but the engine not starting (and once or twice where it would start but then would act gas starved and not keep going). But much more recently, it was just that starter deploying but no start where sometimes it would start right up and then other times had to try numerous times before the car would start--it all would have happened a lot quicker but I haven't been driving too much in the last 8 months. I hope it was just the air filter but I doubt it. NOW if I could just figure out how that ignition switch comes out.
 
Good job! Always remember as I was taught long ago when I was building motorcyle road racers, "don't replace the crankshaft if you only need an air filter".
Also, if you can do the work you have already done, unless you just don't want to, why pay someone else to change your oil? It's a no brainer and you'll know it's done right. Don't forget to lubricate the o-ring on the new oil filter before installing it.

Cheers
nigel
 
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Well it must have been coincidence cause as I was driving down the street and came to a stop at a light, now the car simply died and again would not start forever so long. I found the ignition harness connector but need two hands. Is the release the type where u push a small screwdriver up the slot and then pull the connection apart? There is a smaller connection for a few other wires also.
 
Really sounds like a bad ingition switch.
Most of Hondas connectors have a little flat plate type blade running parallel with the connector that requires you to "sqeeze" it in towards the connector and while doing that you pull the connector apart. I've seen some on other Hondas that require you to slip your fingernail or another like item, (small screwdriver) behind that tab and pry out and then pull the connector apart. Don't force it. When you get the catch unhooks you'll know it as the connector will slide apart fairly easily. Sometimes you have to push it, (the connector) together to get the latch to release before pulling the connector apart. Use some of that grease to apply a light coat on the face of the pins before you plug it back together. Keeps out moisture and stops possible shorts.
Check with Larry Bastanza or nsxtasy on this as they're "the man" when it comes to NSXs. I'm sure one of them have come across this before.

Cheers
nigel
 
ok I pressed in on the connector tab on the far side (the near side holds the entire connector to a metal spade) and was able to wiggle the connectors apart. I then removed the two 3mm bolts holding the ignition switch to the body. That component had plastic tabs going around it and I pried each carefully and got it apart. 6 oval contacts on 1 pc with 3 large and 3 small. One large one had build-up which I had to use 600 grit paper to remove. Used electrical grease and reconnected but have not reinstalled yet. It had a burnt smell when I removed it. keeping my fingers crossed
 
Easiest way to check for a bad ignition switch is turn the key all the way and hold it there...the engine should run as long as you hold the key at full turn.

If the engine does not run...not the switch.

Give it a try
 
AS I recollect, I did try to just keep the key full on a couple times when I was stuck in traffic and something kept going but I did not like the sound of it and let up... Meanwhile I just saw a thread on fixing the early abs systems and I am thinking that component that is put on in place of the reservoir is exactly what I need but permanently since the sun ate my reservoir--lol
 
jrehner said:
AS I recollect, I did try to just keep the key full on a couple times when I was stuck in traffic and something kept going but I did not like the sound of it and let up... Meanwhile I just saw a thread on fixing the early abs systems and I am thinking that component that is put on in place of the reservoir is exactly what I need but permanently since the sun ate my reservoir--lol
Click to expand...

That sound was was the starter motor turning along with the motor.....it's your switch....my advice , spend the $100 for a new one and save yourself alot of grief.
 
jrehner, If you see burnt contacts, order a new switch. Sometimes you can clean them up and they will work for awhile but not always. As you know now, replacing it will be a breeze, just a pain.
I can't remember what year your NSX is but if it's still in warrenty definately let Acura replace it. If you have a good dealer and / or can get to the service rep they will sometimes replace parts like this that don't fail very often to see why they did. The age of your car will be a factor. If it's an early 90s I wouldn't count on it but the worse that can happen is they will tell you to bugger off. If so call JR and get a good deal from him at Ray Laks.


Cheers
nigel
 
I am in Phoenix but usually use Niello Acura in CA. Yeah one of the larger outer flat ovals had burnt debris on it. Felt metalic but did sand off. It had a burnt smell. The portion with the rocker/springs was ok.

I might as well try it since I have already cleaned it up and just need to reinstall it.
 

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