Nitrous primer..so you want to go nitrous please read!

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DRY SHOT: a 70 shot dry is safe and reliable and if you throw in a safety switch (you had one if you owned a RM kit), RPM window switch and leave the horn activation but allow the horn button to kick the system on only with the car at WOT by using a throttle position micro switch and monitor your fuel pressure and A/F, with those measures you are darn safe. BTW those little added safety features are cost effective, not so with the fuel pressure electronic gauge. that costs some cash..around 180$ I believe but I would recommend that on both wet or dry.A quality A/F gauge will cost you also.concerning the fuel pressure you want the gauge that’s electronic so no fuel is routed to the driver compartment.

WET SHOT: If you have a strong clutch and know your motor is sound the stock internals as I have stated many times should handle a 100 shot with no issues.for the record in both dry and wet setups when I talk about handling the hp shot I mean for the long haul.ok back on track, you want wet for the larger shot as you will change the dynamics of fuel management in the sense of how the additional fuel that the motor needs while spraying is delivered. The dry shot uses the stock injectors to add the fuel and they are 240 cc on an NSX. If you demand to much fuel from them they can lock up at higher duty cycle's. The wet shot does not use the injectors to deliver the additional fuel its added directly via a feed from the fuel line and sprayed into the motor at the same location as the nitrous jet. The wet kit jets are much better these days at atomizing the fuel. The old days of puddles in the intake and the danger of an unexpected detonation of fuel there is outdated on a 100 shot wet with the new technology.
PREP OF CAR PRIOR TO NITRIOUS BOTH WET OR DRY:
1. COPPER PLUGS BKR7E gapped at .35 if not available BKR7E-11.The 11 means they are pre gapped at .44 that so happens to be the OEM spec for NSX plugs. Others still use iridium and NGK has recommendations on that but this is my opinion.
2. Replace your OEM fuel filter. On a dry kit all the fuel passes through this and you want no chance of fouling which could cause a loss of fuel pressure affecting the process (more on this in a moment
3. Validate you fuel pump is still running strong
4.Validate your ignition is putting out enough spark (up to OEM snuff)
a quick breakdown on an important aspect of the fuel delivery: on a dry kit when you activate the spray it leaks a small amount of nitrous in gas form via a second nitrous solenoid (a wet kit has a nitrous solenoid and a fuel solenoid the dry kit has 2 nitrous solenoids) to your fuel pressure regulator and this causes your fuel pressure to jump up to a level that will support the 70 shot of nitrous, the fuel safety switch insures this has happened before it allows the system to spray like wise if pressure drops it will turn your spray off as stated earlier in this letter. Dry systems use the stock injectors to provide the added fuel, this added pressure is what can cause an injector to fail from to high a duty cycle but its extremely unlikely at a 70 shot. Yet that’s WHY most dry kits fail when kids think they will just change out jets and spray 100-150 dry. Well that and the fuel pump could go south but if you have checked out the pump its a non issue but it is still not valid to spray high shots dry even if your pump is strong. Wet the fuel is delivered via the nozzle provided with you nitrous kit and the wet system does not raise the fuel pressure to dangerous levels which is why you can run the larger shot.
It is a matter of how much you want to deliver which should decide the method wet or dry.
SUM IT UP:
With a healthy motor on stock internals 70 shot dry is safe for the motor. Injectors can handle that size no problem although as stated above you should check out your fuel pump and change out the filter.
With a healthy motor on stock internals 100 shot wet should not be a problem but like the dry it is important to insure your fuel pump is doing the job,also consider you are using a larger shot.Some people add a second inline fuel pump to be really careful.
That’s my opinion on the matter.as you know you will hear many people say you can run much higher shots, recommend a different plug etc.I would much rather err on the side of safety and caution. Its very easy to tell a man he can spray a 150 shot on stock internals without recommending any safety precautions as its not his car. This is my take on the whole matter.I take the position of what I feel I would run on my own car and do it worry free for YEARS.

Best Regards David

P.S. hope that helped, I probably covered alot you already knew but what the heck (better safe then sorry;) if any part of this letter left you confused or I did a bad explaination please email what issue was not clarified enough and I will pinpoint it to a better degree.
One last point. It is my positon that if you own an older model with high miles stick with a smaller shot as even NSX as awesome as it is wears with time and nitrous will only expedite the process. Believe me a 70 shot is nothing to sneeze at. If you own a rather new car I would opt for the 100 wet. This being said please remember this is all opinion and you all know what they say about that;)
 
Lots of good stuff David, but when is your kit and accessories going to be available? I have an uninstalled RM kit I bought from Jason Weaver and I am waiting to see what kind of goodies you are bringing to the table before I hook it up.
 
ncdogdoc said:
Lots of good stuff David, but when is your kit and accessories going to be available? I have an uninstalled RM kit I bought from Jason Weaver and I am waiting to see what kind of goodies you are bringing to the table before I hook it up.


Gary , I know its taking longer then I thought partly due to a neck injury I just recovered from it slowed down how fast I could test the various kits.they have all been tested..the kits are complete and ready for sale.But I need to take care of several things before I release them like:
inspecting my internals to insure I have not damaged the motor, I have no signs of damage its just part of the R&D. when the car comes up with a clean bill of health after the leakdown test (it will) and the website is finished (its almost done) and I have settled on a hosting company the kits will go out. I know this sound like it will take time but not really I am just about there.I hope we can do business.and I think you will like the goodies;)
best regards david
 
I have had a couple of motors in for rebuild that were using NOS, one of the motors had a 150 shot, everything checked out OK with leakdown and compression however the main and rod bearings had started to wear excessively, on the other motors less NOS was used, 70-100hp and the bottom ends looked fine, all motors were using Mobile 1 synthetic.
I believe that the clearences from the factory are to tight to run over 100hp NOS without doing some kind of damage to the bearings. IMO
None of the motors came in for rebuild because of the nitrous, they were upgrading the motors for FI at the higher boost levels.
 
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lower compression pistons

Gerry,
Having said that does a lower compression pistons allow the use of higher wet kit 150 shot and still safe for the main bearing?

Additionally, what shot (wet/dry) are you going with your turbo setup?

Thank you

Danny
 
Awesome post. Very informative!! I have a stock 93 with 46k on the clock. I want to go with the 70 wet shot. Should I have a compression check and check the fuel pump? If I need to, how can I do this?
many thanks
Z
 
Re: lower compression pistons

SexyRed said:
Gerry,
Having said that does a lower compression pistons allow the use of higher wet kit 150 shot and still safe for the main bearing?

Additionally, what shot (wet/dry) are you going with your turbo setup?

Thank you

Danny

I am running a direct port wet system, I have it set for 70hp. If you have the lower compression pistons and the bearing clearences have been modified and the bottom end has been balanced, you should be OK. The stock NSX motor is balanced from the factory, however not one motor that I have seen has been perfect, also when putting in the lower compression pistons you change the balance and it is a must to rebalance the complete assembly, rods (pin ends with bushing and journal end with bearings) crank, pistons & pins along with the spirol clips& rings, balancer, flywheel and pressure plate, and it is good to upgrade to the high volume oil pump when rebuilding the motors to handle more power with the additional clearances.
 
I talked on the phone to someone last year at Comptech and was told that he thought nitrous was bad for the NSX engine. Something about bending or crackng the rings and causing blow by. Just what I was told, I don't really know and am no expert.
 
pbassjo said:
I talked on the phone to someone last year at Comptech and was told that he thought nitrous was bad for the NSX engine. Something about bending or crackng the rings and causing blow by. Just what I was told, I don't really know and am no expert.

I am not really sure how to respond to this kind of post but here go's:

1. you state you are no expert but very willing to post to a thread in the technical section on F/I and Nitrous and disparage nitrous because you heard from someone at comptech who may or may not be an expert on its use thats its bad and btw is very willing to sell you a S/C.
2. My Goal behind this post was to inform the community and try and educate on the safe use of nitrous and put to rest alot of common misconceptions (like yours) about safety and NOS and relate that it is a good power adder.
3. Nitrous is no more dangerous for your motor then any other type of power adder like turbo or S/C. but it has its limits of safe use and on a NSX my opinion is 100 shot max wet. read above post by Gerry Johnson whom relates to tearing down motors that were running nitrous at a lower level within the safe range and he says he saw NO wear related to the spray. (quote) on the other motors less NOS was used, 70-100hp and the bottom ends looked fine, all motors were using Mobile 1 synthetic.
I believe that the clearences from the factory are to tight to run over 100hp NOS without doing some kind of damage to the bearings. IMO
None of the motors came in for rebuild because of the nitrous, they were upgrading the motors for FI at the higher boost levels. (end quote) this from a man that tears down and builds high quality NSX motors and is well respected for his knowledge. I hold his opinion in high regard because he does know his stuff and it is not academic its hands on.

4.if you are going to write a negative post concerning a power adder please do so but understand the concept behind what you are indicating is bad. I have no issue with someone stating nos is bad but I do want to hear the rational behind the post.

In closing I feel it is in extreme poor taste to post such negative statments to a thread meant to educate and inform about nos and slam it yet have no understanding of how it works or why it is a danger, many forum members have been using it for years with a safe setup and they have a clean bill of health on their cars. if you had bothered to read the whole article you would have seen the part where I indicated the reason people do smoke their rings and blow motors...its from uneducated use and poor system design not to mention a lack of saftey features I constantly state are needed.it also happens when warnings are not heeded and they change the system to spray more then is safe for thier car. nitrous is safe if used with common sense. bump up the boost on a turbo to levels that are not safe and more then the shop that designed it ever intended it to go and see what happens...does that make turbos bad for your motor? not if you use it within its given safety range. is this sinking in?what about spraying or boosting a car with built internals is that a bad thing,hardly...before you post again please ingage brain before keyboard and do your homework
done whith rant
David
PS in all my posts to this forum this is the first time I have ever felt anger due to a fellow forum members post and I make no apology for it. :mad:
 
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Easy Carma Easy..;)
I think the post was made to get more feedback, remember
NItrous is still one of the most understood form of mods, as much as I think I know, there is always more to learn.
 
pbassjo said:
I talked on the phone to someone last year at Comptech and was told that he thought nitrous was bad for the NSX engine. Something about bending or crackng the rings and causing blow by. Just what I was told, I don't really know and am no expert.


Now that is exactly what i have seen happening with the Comptech SC. :eek:

I can post a picture of the piston if you want.........



Mich
 
Dave, I am wondering how your system will be different from say a NOS brand kit, Zex brand kit, etc, etc.... I'm assuming obviously that the kit will be tailored to fit a NSX (lines are long enough to connect bottle mounted in trunk to intake...etc)
 
BadCarma said:
I am not really sure how to respond to this kind of post but here go's:

1. you state you are no expert but very willing to post to a thread in the technical section on F/I and Nitrous and disparage nitrous because you heard from someone at comptech who may or may not be an expert on its use thats its bad and btw is very willing to sell you a S/C.
2. My Goal behind this post was to inform the community and try and educate on the safe use of nitrous and put to rest alot of common misconceptions (like yours) about safety and NOS and relate that it is a good power adder.
3. Nitrous is no more dangerous for your motor then any other type of power adder like turbo or S/C. but it has its limits of safe use and on a NSX my opinion is 100 shot max wet. read above post by Gerry Johnson whom relates to tearing down motors that were running nitrous at a lower level within the safe range and he says he saw NO wear related to the spray. (quote) on the other motors less NOS was used, 70-100hp and the bottom ends looked fine, all motors were using Mobile 1 synthetic.
I believe that the clearences from the factory are to tight to run over 100hp NOS without doing some kind of damage to the bearings. IMO
None of the motors came in for rebuild because of the nitrous, they were upgrading the motors for FI at the higher boost levels. (end quote) this from a man that tears down and builds high quality NSX motors and is well respected for his knowledge. I hold his opinion in high regard because he does know his stuff and it is not academic its hands on.

4.if you are going to write a negative post concerning a power adder please do so but understand the concept behind what you are indicating is bad. I have no issue with someone stating nos is bad but I do want to hear the rational behind the post.

In closing I feel it is in extreme poor taste to post such negative statments to a thread meant to educate and inform about nos and slam it yet have no understanding of how it works or why it is a danger, many forum members have been using it for years with a safe setup and they have a clean bill of health on their cars. if you had bothered to read the whole article you would have seen the part where I indicated the reason people do smoke their rings and blow motors...its from uneducated use and poor system design not to mention a lack of saftey features I constantly state are needed.it also happens when warnings are not heeded and they change the system to spray more then is safe for thier car. nitrous is safe if used with common sense. bump up the boost on a turbo to levels that are not safe and more then the shop that designed it ever intended it to go and see what happens...does that make turbos bad for your motor? not if you use it within its given safety range. is this sinking in?what about spraying or boosting a car with built internals is that a bad thing,hardly...before you post again please ingage brain before keyboard and do your homework
done whith rant
David
PS in all my posts to this forum this is the first time I have ever felt anger due to a fellow forum members post and I make no apology for it. :mad:

Angry?
This is a technical forum as you stated and I have not slammed you.When people ask questions or field concerns, don't get angry, give good answers.
I find in my business that to act any other way could make them wonder how you could react to service issue if they were to become a customer.
I did have a conversation as stated when I called Comptech to inquire aboout some parts for a customer.
My car at 30k used a quart of oil every 300 miles. If you burped the exhaust it would sometimes give a little puff of smoke.
A compression check gave 190-200 as numbers.
I suspect the previous owner had a RM Nitrous system in use becasue I found the mounts under the trunk floor mat and residue from a sticker on the firewall that said"RM NitrousInjected".
I needed a timing belt change and decided to have the heads pulled, rebuilt(new seals, guides etc.) new piston rings and bearings etc..
I am very busy at work (fixing other people's cars) and have not had a chance to get to the rebuilder to inspect any of the parts.
It would only point to why I have the oil use and not what was the cause anyway.

I have no idea how the car was driven, used or abused before I bought it. Are my motors problems from nitrous specofically?
Doubtful, I just know better to ask you or you'll get angry and tell me off.


Modded and unmodified cars can have problems if they are abused. Mine has some problems that I am correcting.
I don't believe Nitrous damages the engine, exceeding the redline/limits of the engine does. Nitrous/FI just gets you up in revs faster and it's what happens when you approach the limit and if you exceed them that causes engine damage.

You sound like a very informed person on the subject of Nitrous and I'm not challenging any of your claims of the reliabilty/safety of any system you make, endorse or use. I never have and never will. It's a engine mod, to take it personal is foolish.
My brain is always engaged, and so are my manners.
I suspect you felt my post could hurt your possibilty of gaining peoples business or respect. It was not my intent.
You gave a good cohesive response,it was not neccessay to get personal or nasty. We are, after all, good ladies and gentlemen are we not?
 
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pbassjo said:
I talked on the phone to someone last year at Comptech and was told that he thought nitrous was bad for the NSX engine. Something about bending or crackng the rings and causing blow by. Just what I was told, I don't really know and am no expert.


hmmm.... thats like going to a Benz dealership and asking about a BMW you've seen and don't know much. honestly think about it, why even post that.

Dave,

from what i belive the RM kit is 70 horses to the wheels which indeed would make it closer to a dry 100 shot (right?)
 
smoore said:
hmmm.... thats like going to a Benz dealership and asking about a BMW you've seen and don't know much. honestly think about it, why even post that.

Not quite.
Speaking to Comptech about a NSX is like talking to AMG about a Mercedes or Dinan about a BMW.
 
Dave,

from what i believe the RM kit is 70 horses to the wheels which indeed would make it closer to a dry 100 shot (right?) [/B][/QUOTE]

I believe it is closer to 78.4 with a 12% drivetrain loss. seems everyone (vendors) posts the value of the shot to the wheels. but many cars with a 75 shot as an example will dyno higher on the juice then the stated shot.
Best Regards David

PS Stu, its time for round two... I will private you
 
pbassjo said:
...Modded and unmodified cars can have problems if they are abused. Mine has some problems that I am correcting.
I don't believe Nitrous damages the engine, exceeding the redline/limits of the engine does. Nitrous/FI just gets you up in revs faster and it's what happens when you approach the limit and if you exceed them that causes engine damage...

That's really not accurate. Exceeding the rev limits is not the issue, with nitrous or without. Excessive combustion heat, stress, and detonation are what damage the engine, as well as the potential for too much fuel washing down the cylinders.
 
pbassjo said:
smoore said:
hmmm.... thats like going to a Benz dealership and asking about a BMW you've seen and don't know much. honestly think about it, why even post that.

Not quite.
Speaking to Comptech about a NSX is like talking to AMG about a Mercedes or Dinan about a BMW.

Whatever, you get the point, maybe it's like going to Burger King and asking what they think of a Big Mac:rolleyes: they both serve burgers:confused:
 
sjs said:
That's really not accurate. Exceeding the rev limits is not the issue, with nitrous or without. Excessive combustion heat, stress, and detonation are what damage the engine, as well as the potential for too much fuel washing down the cylinders.

So where do properly installed mods like a SC, turbo, nitrous stand in your opinion in regard to excessive combustion, heat, stress etc.? How much of a toll do you think they exact on a NSX engine in good condition if any?
 
smoore said:
Whatever, you get the point, maybe it's like going to Burger King and asking what they think of a Big Mac:rolleyes: they both serve burgers:confused:

Ok, they don't sell a nitrous setup so you feel the comment was prejudicial, I see your point.
 
Dave, I asked you before in this thread what the difference is between your kit and another...... I'm still curious as to how yours would be different?

please read my second to last post. I was asked sometime ago to not promote my kit in this forum, it belongs in the vendor forum.this forum is for nitrous theory and tech talk about F/I.. just woke and have not had my coffee :-( I will private you what the deal is
best regards david
ps as I have business to attend to today it will be latter this afternoon. need to get a half a dozen bottles filled and get presents for the big easter egg hunt at my house tommorrow. which is very peculiar considering I am Buddhist
 
Dave,

First let me say that I found your nitrous summary extremely helpful (especially to a novice such as myself).

I was hoping that you (or others) could comment on the pros and cons of adding a 70 shot dry nitrous system to an NSX that already has a Comptech supercharger.

Thanks in advance for your expertise.
 
HP to the Wheels

My turn!

Now I'm not an expert, but I've been running the RM 70hp kit for 4 years and have a few comments;

1) Unless someone comes out with a bullet proof SC/Turbo setup, I'm staying on the bottle.

2) The 70hp kit for me is at the motor - multiple dyno runs show an additional 55.9hp at the wheels, and 56.9 more ft-lb of torque.

3) 10lb bottle refills cost about $25, and last about 3-4 20 minute sessions on a twisty track, 2-3 on a fast track. I'm thinking about adding a 2nd bottle for track days.

I cover the install of the kit on the site if anyone is interested.

-ed
www.nsxbuilder.com
 
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