Next generation of Sportscars

[WingZ]

Hmm can't really tell whet he means by this..Honcho??

http://www.motortrend.com/features/...nd_d_talks_cr_z_minivans_and_music/s2000.html

"MT: I agree. The S2000 and NSX had superb engines and manual gearboxes. In fact, in some countries like the UK, the S2000 is still topping JD Power surveys for customer satisfaction.
KS: Yes, that's true, but our engines are so good and so fuel-efficient now, that to be honest, that's why we did not add idle-stop to the Jazz lineup as it just makes things more complicated and you need ten times the battery current capacity with idle-stop. And it makes the car more expensive, too. That's why we only offer hybrid. It's already economical enough.
MT: And of course you have the new CR-Z now, the first hybrid with a six-speed manual.
KS: Yeah, we do, but I am not a big fan of it. I think its face is too aggressive, too in your face. I wanted it to have a more futuristic design.
MT: And what about the power of the car? Is it powerful enough?
KS: Hmm, that's a painful question. Let's put it like this. With our next generation of sports cars, we will offer a slightly different definition. Like the CR-Z, they won't just be cars that offer moderate acceleration, but deliver driving thrills and cornering fun while still giving drivers a feeling of topless and free. Part of our plan was to get the CR-Z on the road and see what the market wants. So we expect to add to this lineup soon."


Oh Yeah and I found this but don't believe the V8 hype at all

http://www.motortrend.com/features/..._returning_to_its_sports_car_roots/index.html


There is one consistency to pretty much every article V6 HYBRID COUPE!

 

[Honcho]

Yeah. "Slightly different direction" means Hybrid. Notice he mentions the CR-Z in the same sentence. I totally called it- the CR-Z was the market tester for the new sports car. The good news is they are going forward. The bad news is that the car might not be that fast or special. The $50k to $90k sports car market is BRUTAL. I still don't know how Honda is going to make something that people will choose over the M3 and C6 (soon C7) Vette. I really think they need to do Mid Engine to differentiate themselves. A HSC with revised rear end and V6 hybrid would work I think...

 

[WingZ]

Yeah. "Slightly different direction" means Hybrid. Notice he mentions the CR-Z in the same sentence. I totally called it- the CR-Z was the market tester for the new sports car. The good news is they are going forward. The bad news is that the car might not be that fast or special. The $50k to $90k sports car market is BRUTAL. I still don't know how Honda is going to make something that people will choose over the M3 and C6 (soon C7) Vette. I really think they need to do Mid Engine to differentiate themselves. A HSC with revised rear end and V6 hybrid would work I think...

Actually he said "definition". He said for their next generation of sportscars they will offer a slightly different definition to the question of "powerful enough".

The NSX wasn't a really powerful car so we'll have to see what slightly different means. Hondas have never been high powered so maybe that will be different ,but a car slower than the last NSX would just be stupid and a why bother.

I believe they'll better the last NSX performance while significantly increasing fuel economy. That should put it close to the M3 for performance however the M3 is about to get twin turbos and more hp while getting better fuel economy. Current M3 is abysmal for mpg:frown:

 

[Honcho]

LOL I should have been paying better attention to the quote. What I think is great about the NSX is that even with "only" 290 hp when I slam the gas at 5000 rpm it pulls like other cars that have 380. I think this is due to the light weight, mid engine layout and power curves of the engine. If Honda can recreate that feeling plus a hybrid in a mid-rear car for less than $70k, they've got a winner. I just think it's going to be very difficult to do this economically. Although, I'm sure the naysayers said the same thing about the NSX back in the 80's. I remain optimistic, but with the continuing decline of Honda in the marketplace, it is getting harder to stay so. The Kia Optima just beat the Accord in a major review. A Kia. It feels like a sign of the apocalypse! What is going on with Honda?????

Actually he said "definition". He said for their next generation of sportscars they will offer a slightly different definition to the question of "powerful enough".

The NSX wasn't a really powerful car so we'll have to see what slightly different means. Hondas have never been high powered so maybe that will be different ,but a car slower than the last NSX would just be stupid and a why bother.

I believe they'll better the last NSX performance while significantly increasing fuel economy. That should put it close to the M3 for performance however the M3 is about to get twin turbos and more hp while getting better fuel economy. Current M3 is abysmal for mpg:frown:

 

[captainjman]

Actually he said "definition". He said for their next generation of sportscars they will offer a slightly different definition to the question of "powerful enough".

The NSX wasn't a really powerful car so we'll have to see what slightly different means. Hondas have never been high powered so maybe that will be different ,but a car slower than the last NSX would just be stupid and a why bother.

I believe they'll better the last NSX performance while significantly increasing fuel economy. That should put it close to the M3 for performance however the M3 is about to get twin turbos and more hp while getting better fuel economy. Current M3 is abysmal for mpg:frown:

Why bother? Maybe because they bothered to make a CRZ with a 0-60 of 2 months! I hate to be negative, sorry....

It "kind of" makes sense though, if they go hybrid and its slow, the next gen will get faster and faster and someday you might have a real fast hybrid. Tech doesn't go 0-60 as fast as the acceleration we want. There is a curve!

That being said - its going to be aweful if the new NSX has a 6 second 0-60. Hard to sell that to anyone... if there are no sales - there is no money for development and the faster cars down the road will never be built.

At the end of the day though, its their company and they will do what they want. We may have been their target market before, but that doesn't mean we are their target market this time.

To some, the prius is the most amazing car in the world!

 

[WingZ]

Why bother? Maybe because they bothered to make a CRZ with a 0-60 of 2 months! I hate to be negative, sorry....

It "kind of" makes sense though, if they go hybrid and its slow, the next gen will get faster and faster and someday you might have a real fast hybrid. Tech doesn't go 0-60 as fast as the acceleration we want. There is a curve!

That being said - its going to be aweful if the new NSX has a 6 second 0-60. Hard to sell that to anyone... if there are no sales - there is no money for development and the faster cars down the road will never be built.

At the end of the day though, its their company and they will do what they want. We may have been their target market before, but that doesn't mean we are their target market this time.

To some, the prius is the most amazing car in the world!

True but even they now admit the CRZ isn't a sportscar but a sporty hybrid due to the stick

A hybrid with a 0-60 of six seconds was done awhile back with the Accord hybrid that weighed 3515lbs using 240hp 217lbstq with a 16hp&100lbstq assist ima. This was back in 05. Have to think they've learned some things and would be able to boost that. Would seem logical that 300+hp Jseries with next gen IMA would be in the low to mid fours which is at C32A NSX levels.

 

[Honcho]

True but even they now admit the CRZ isn't a sportscar but a sporty hybrid due to the stick

A hybrid with a 0-60 of six seconds was done awhile back with the Accord hybrid that weighed 3515lbs using 240hp 217lbstq with a 16hp&100lbstq assist ima. This was back in 05. Have to think they've learned some things and would be able to boost that. Would seem logical that 300+hp Jseries with next gen IMA would be in the low to mid fours which is at C32A NSX levels.

Even the Dualnote 10 years ago had this kind of power. Dualnote + HSC = WIN.

 

[WingZ]

Even the Dualnote 10 years ago had this kind of power. Dualnote + HSC = WIN.

Hmm are there any production mid engine hybrids?? I can't think of any.

 

[Honcho]

Hmm are there any production mid engine hybrids?? I can't think of any.

Hence why it would be successful for Honda. The Porsche 918 is the only one I can think of.

 

[WingZ]

Hence why it would be successful for Honda. The Porsche 918 is the only one I can think of.

Agreed but the whole "spiritual successor" crap means it won't be mid-engine.

 

[WingZ]

Well but they do call the CRZ the spiritual successor to the CRX and it does perform better.

 

[mlambert890]

IMO everything about this quote screams "conservative" which is why I still believe that Honda just does not have the DNA to be interesting anymore.

From the styling to the power questions, the answers all point to "sensible".

The way I read that quote, at least to me, (esp "topless and free" part), implies that they want to produce some sort of hybrid S2000 and the "futuristic look" part, IMO, implies they will obliterate the classic styling that, IMO, made the car a winner.