Newbie to the Stock Market

I could understand why one with a large long position may want to purchase some puts, but I never have understood why one would want to write covered calls. Can you please explain why? I'm scratching my head.


Either will produce the same hedge. The key between the two is your plan cost money to purchase puts where mine brings money in by selling calls.

Every month one would increase their cost basis by buying puts, if they had written calls the cost basis would go down.
 
steveny said:
Either will produce the same hedge. The key between the two is your plan cost money to purchase puts where mine brings money in by selling calls.

Every month one would increase their cost basis by buying puts, if they had written calls the cost basis would go down.
I'm with Steve here. Really depends on your goal. If you're holding a long-term position and want to 'insure' your profits, buying a Put would work, but keep in mind, the Put will expire worthless and the cost of the Put is added to your position's cost basis. But if the plan is to simply lower your cost basis, then selling calls would work better. The only risk is, if the stock really flies you would have to buy the calls back at a higher price, or risk being called out of your position. There's no free lunch. It's all about risk/reward.

-Awais
 
Bonds

Bond maven Bill Gross, manager of the world’s largest bond fund, Pimco Total Return Fund, laments the end of the long bull market in bonds in his latest commentary. He recommends bond investors make heavy use of TIPS, Treasury Inflation Protected Securities, whose yield is tied to the inflation rate. Gross’s argument is simple: with the significant reflation of the economy being engineered simultaneously by the federal government and the Federal Reserve, bond investors need to worry about protecting their principal value.



What I’m suggesting is that since the Fed sets the price of short-term money and that since other yields are significantly influenced by today’s 1% Fed Funds mark, that there’s not much a bondholder can do. First of all, yields are extremely low on an inflation-adjusted basis. In addition, bond prices and therefore total returns are at risk if reflation takes hold or – heaven forbid, if foreign creditors begin to unload their sizeable holdings. And, of course, sitting out the dance by staying in money market funds earns you that confiscatory negative real interest rate. What, poor babies, are we bondholders to make of all this?

The way to attack this seemingly hopeless conundrum is by holding TIPS – Treasury Inflation Protected Securities. At first blush this solution seems obvious. If the government is bound and determined to reflate the economy and inflate bondholders down the river, then something with “inflation protected” in its name seems a reasonable bet. These TIPS, as almost all of you know, match the CPI one for one, three for three, or ten for ten. Whatever inflation is, you get compensated for it plus a permanent coupon to boot. These bonds with varying maturities and varying coupons today yield 1% “real” for the shortest maturities and 2.8% “real” for the 30-year TIP. That is, whatever future inflation is, you get that return plus the real yield. Does this beat the negative real rates on money market securities? By a landslide. Does that real return protect you against the reflationary erosion of your principal? Of course. Does that mean you can buy these things, stuff them in your mental vault, and sleep soundly at night? Probably – but not quite. Their prices do go up and down as “real” interest rates change so that over time periods less than the stated maturity, you could be looking at a “book” loss.

But having said that, the door becomes wide open for the third and final kicker in this bond àge à trois. First, TIPS beat the onus currently imposed by the Fed via negative real short-term interest rates. Second they compensate the holder for future changes in the CPI thus avoiding the reflationary intentions of Greenspan himself. And third, TIPS are one of the few fixed income sectors that actually stand a chance of appreciating in price as the Fed attempts to reflate. The key to this third potential kicker lies with history and the understanding that real interest rates in an average (or even reflationary) economy have been much lower than current existing levels. The current real rate for the 30-year TIP at 2.8% and the real rate of 2.25% for the 10-year TIP are slightly above historical norms. Thus they have the potential to appreciate in price if real yields fall in future months and years. . .
The Fed and the U.S. government are attempting to reflate the U.S. economy in order to relieve the deflationary burden of excessive debt. Politicians do this via deficit spending. Fed governors do it by enforcing low/negative real short-term rates that strip savers and bondholders of their wealth and then erode long-term bond prices through the effects of higher inflation. You/we can fight back. By some egregious folly, the Treasury began to offer a safety valve back in 1997. They began to issue TIPS. These securities won’t make you rich, but they’ll protect your principal in the ensuing years and even stand a chance of going up in price over the near term. Buy all you can.
 
steveny said:
Either will produce the same hedge.

Writing covered calls will limit your potential gain.

Purchasing puts will limit your potential loss.

I don't see how this is the same hedge.

When writing covered calls, you are limiting your gain, but are still exposed to your entire stock position on the downside (minus the proceeds of the written calls). I don't understand why you'd be willing to hold a large long position in a stock and let people buy the potential to make large gains on the stock (especially while risking a lot on the downside).

I'm not trying to be adversarial for the sake of arguing. I spent time yesterday trying to find calls that I'd write and I couldn't find any that would make sense in my situation. I'm genuinely curious. Could you give me an example or a situation where the strategy would make sense (or point me to a site that would explain it).

Thanks
 
Quote by Bernard Baruch Bernard Baruch, a great philanthropist and financier wh

Bernard Baruch, a great philanthropist and financier who foresaw the Great Crash of 1929 said “Don't try to buy at the bottom and sell at the top. It can't be done except by liars.”
 
Quote by Bernard Baruch a great financier who forsaw the Crash of 1929 said

Don't try to buy at the bottom and sell at the top. It can't be done except by liars.”
 
Writing covered calls will limit your potential gain.
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If you write way out of the money calls they will most likely not be executable by the buyer. Any up side will still be retained by your underlying.

If you write near money calls and they are executable at expiration you will get more than you paid for the stock plus the entire premium from the calls. No one has ever gone broke making a profit.

My favorite has to be by far...out of the money leaps in a bull market. Write the leap collect the premium. When the underlying passes the strike way before expiration the premium will run right out of the leap, buy the leap back for the intrinsic value and sell the underlying.


Purchasing puts will limit your potential loss.
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True but by doing this one is buying and not selling. One generates money and the other costs money. If I had been buying puts on my CSCO over the last 8 years I would have a higher cost basis instead of one that's is near zero. I purchase puts all the time just not on anything I own. To me it seems insane to buy something with the thought that it will go down.

I don't see how this is the same hedge.
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Both protect your downside. However one adds money to your account and the other subtracts.

When writing covered calls, you are limiting your gain, but are still exposed to your entire stock position on the downside (minus the proceeds of the written calls). I don't understand why you'd be willing to hold a large long position in a stock and let people buy the potential to make large gains on the stock (especially while risking a lot on the downside).
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Profits now, up front. No guessing at where the top or bottom is. If the underlying falls below the offset cost basis buy the calls back and sell the underlying and your back to near even.

I'm not trying to be adversarial for the sake of arguing. I spent time yesterday trying to find calls that I'd write and I couldn't find any that would make sense in my situation. I'm genuinely curious. Could you give me an example or a situation where the strategy would make sense (or point me to a site that would explain it).
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Your situation may be different than mine. This is what makes the market such a great tool for everyone. Here is an example of msft.

On Nov 1 2002 MSFT was trading at 26.50
yesterday MSFT closed at 26.62

If I had bought puts out eight months ago they would be worth zero. This would have also added to my cost basis.

I did sell calls each and every month and collected 200-1000 dollars for each month over the last eight months. There were a few months where I had to buy them back for the intrinsic value and one month that I had to buy them back for more than I paid. However I now have a cost basis on MSFT below $20

Thanks
 
Steve, thanks for the info. Tell me what you think about the following (#'s pulled from Yahoo Finance):

Buy MSFT @ $26.45
Sell $25 Calls for $1.75
Buy $27.50 Puts for $1.25

Over-all Cost basis: $25.95 with down-side protection. If it breaks to the upside, buy the calls back for a little more, and bank on the profit in stock. If it goes down below $25, call will expire worthless. Now, you can either sell the Put with a profit and repeat this process all over again for the next month, or you can excercise the Put and realize a $1.55 profit on the stock.

Does this sound feasible? Please correct me if I'm off on any of this. This is not something I'm doing, or even want to do, but figured I'd post it here to throw some ideas around.
 
O-Ace said:
Steve, thanks for the info. Tell me what you think about the following (#'s pulled from Yahoo Finance):

Buy MSFT @ $26.45
Sell $25 Calls for $1.75
Buy $27.50 Puts for $1.25

Over-all Cost basis: $25.95 with down-side protection. If it breaks to the upside, buy the calls back for a little more, and bank on the profit in stock. If it goes down below $25, call will expire worthless. Now, you can either sell the Put with a profit and repeat this process all over again for the next month, or you can excercise the Put and realize a $1.55 profit on the stock.

Does this sound feasible? Please correct me if I'm off on any of this. This is not something I'm doing, or even want to do, but figured I'd post it here to throw some ideas around.
If I was VBNSX I would be so confused by now I wouldn't know if I should scratch my watch or wind my ass.:confused:
 
AKUDOU said:
Most people playing the market has had their ass bitten a few times,but the most money I have ever made in stocksover a short period of time came from my broker with Raymond James.She suggested I buy ILXO at $4.00. I purchased 2000 shares sold 4 month later at $20.00. Being in the medical field you should have some inside scoop new products.

Look at what you do and then look for something unique. My best plays. CAMH.OB bought at .31 and sold at 92 over 6 months. (Wouldn't purchase now as I think that it is over valued. Fair value is probably .8)

Shorted STJ at 62. There growth is primarily based on the pacemaker and defibrillator market but they gained market share by undercutting the price of the other major players on contracts. No "resynchronization" device which is the fastest growing part of the market.

Made money on GDT, about $20/share over the past year. I just reduced my position by 80%. There recovery is due to the stent market not switching as quickly as expected to the drug eluting stent. As soon as BSX comes out with their stent, the cost of the drug eluting stent should come down and there will be greater penetrance and GDT stock will fall. They clearly make the leaders in the defibrillators market and it is sustaining their growth. When the stock falls, I think that it would be a good buying opportunity as GDT probably has the top bare metal stent on the market and as soon as they have a drug eluting stent, they will again be on top. Expect 2005 for their drug eluting stent. A lot of bad press on GDT and they weathered it pretty well.

Lastly, I like IRF even though it has had a big run up. I have owned it on and off for years and have positions at 15, 20 and 37. Cost averaged at around 22. It clearly follows the economy and if you think that the market and economy is improving, this stock will continue to go up.

Long message but you intimated that I might have some info on medical device companies.
 
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