None taken D'Ecosse. I've never been happy with that part of my system, especially considering the $$$ involved. I'm going to give the fill try, but I have a feeling Chris will be selling another box.
New Science of Speed Subwoofer and Box Review and Install
- Thread starter Vega$ NSX
- Start date
I still have the OEM head unit. I wonder if anyone has installed this sub with the OEM unit and can give feedback.
I have a box built by someone else with different brand sub and am really curious as to how much better, if any, the SOS box/sub sounds.
I have a box built by someone else with different brand sub and am really curious as to how much better, if any, the SOS box/sub sounds.
Vegas,
I will be in your town this week. If you have 5 min. for me to take a look at your sub install I would be most grateful
I sent you a pm with my schedule and phone number. I can meet you were it works best for you.
Let me know if it works out, as the sub is last piece of my audio system puzzle.
Thanks,
X
I will be in your town this week. If you have 5 min. for me to take a look at your sub install I would be most grateful
I sent you a pm with my schedule and phone number. I can meet you were it works best for you.
Let me know if it works out, as the sub is last piece of my audio system puzzle.
Thanks,
X
Great write up vega... Do they make the box for right hand drives as well?
nice job -- this would make a great articile for a future issue of NSXDriver!
Very nice write-up indeed...and thanks for the pics for us who are still in the "Planning stages".
I have a few questions -
- Can you provide some measurements as far as how DEEP the enclosure is? Usually a woofer will need between 0.5-1" clearance from the pole vent to the back wall.
- You think your subwoofer in that enclosure with the amount of power you are giving it can produce approx. 135 Decibels at your listening position? Or do you think that a larger woofer will be needed?
- Can the subwoofer produce subsonic freqs well (all the way down to 17 Hz)?
I apologize for the technical questions, I was just trying to get a general idea of the capabilities of this enclosure/driver/power combo.
Thanks
Mike
I have a few questions -
- Can you provide some measurements as far as how DEEP the enclosure is? Usually a woofer will need between 0.5-1" clearance from the pole vent to the back wall.
- You think your subwoofer in that enclosure with the amount of power you are giving it can produce approx. 135 Decibels at your listening position? Or do you think that a larger woofer will be needed?
- Can the subwoofer produce subsonic freqs well (all the way down to 17 Hz)?
I apologize for the technical questions, I was just trying to get a general idea of the capabilities of this enclosure/driver/power combo.
Thanks
Mike
Brian -- Great review! I even picked up a few pointers to add to our installation manual, thanks!
A couple notes:
1. The grill is metal. I'm not sure how a plastic one could have been sent. The outer trim is rubber to prevent vibration however, the grill itself is metal. Check it and let me know. If it is indeed plastic, I'd be happy to send you another.
2. You may wish to check for leaks. As Marc pointed out, even a small leak will greatly hurt performance. What I have seen most often is that the screw holes made when you attach the grill or sub will create a leak. This can easily be sealed with silicone adhesive. The sub's cone should quickly bounce back under grently compression. This process is outlined in the install guide. Let us know if you have any questions!
Cheers,
-- Chris
A couple notes:
1. The grill is metal. I'm not sure how a plastic one could have been sent. The outer trim is rubber to prevent vibration however, the grill itself is metal. Check it and let me know. If it is indeed plastic, I'd be happy to send you another.
2. You may wish to check for leaks. As Marc pointed out, even a small leak will greatly hurt performance. What I have seen most often is that the screw holes made when you attach the grill or sub will create a leak. This can easily be sealed with silicone adhesive. The sub's cone should quickly bounce back under grently compression. This process is outlined in the install guide. Let us know if you have any questions!
Cheers,
-- Chris
Mojorator said:
I'm not trying to speak for Vega$ NSX but I think what I'm saying can provide value.
135 dB out of a 10" subwoofer is a lot to ask. I don't think many 10" subs out there are even capable of breaking 130 dB on their own. In addition, we're talking about a small sealed enclosure, not a lot of power, and a subwoofer with average excursion numbers and the answer to your question is a resounding "No." 120s maybe...
Just a question on the subsonic frequencies, why would you want it to play well below 20 Hz? Most audiophiles are running subsonic filters at 30 Hz nowadays. But the transfer function of cars is pretty amazing at lowering your F3 and the NSX is no exception.
Malibu Rapper said:
Thanks Malibu-
I was hoping that since the enlcosure is UP FRONT that reaching 135 dbs is attainable with decent power between 50-70Hz with some high excursion/sensitivity drivers.
The reason I asked about subsonic freq's is due to my experience with SQ competitions where judges listen/feel for those freq's as part of the judging process and over-all FR of the system.
Chris @ SOS -
- What is the enclosure volume?
EDIT: Nevermind Chris, I found it on the site...Maximum volume (.57 cu/ft)
Thanks
Mike
Mojorator said:
Just as an FYI
One big advantage the NSX has for subwoofers is the small cabin. Smaller cabin leads to more cabin gain or transfer function. So what should happen for a properly designed box is that if you build for an F3 of 50 Hz, in car you will see it go all the way down to 11 Hz in a pretty flat chart for a quality subwoofer. Here's a chart on an Image Dynamics IDQ 12 sub to demonstrate:
So with the windows up and the top on, you should achieve some pretty respectable SPL numbers.
mojo...since I work @ diamond ill kind of feel obligated to answer your questions the best I can. For the record, since you are asking about SQ comps. I have been involved with iasca and usac (and all the others) since the beginning. I am a certified SQ judge and have had the honor of being the head judge at more than a handful of regional events, back when you would have 200+ cars show up. I have built 27 iacsa and usac world champion cars, managed teams for manufactures and had, at last count 30+ cars featured in magazines. I am not saying this to be a pompous a$$, I am using this as to establish my credibility to answer your question.
135 from a single 10, no way, not even a high excursion low sensitivity woofer. not set up for SQ anyway and not with out LOTS of power. Not in a sealed box, regardless of what woofer you may use.
and in this car the small cabin is HURTING your chance of a higher spl reading. But will help in low end extension (use the chart above and look at 70hz, see how it dips on the incar response, this will probably be greater in the nsx.)
(FWIW the way that they score SPL for SQ now you will do great at anything over 120)
As far as reaching 17 hz... as Malibu rapper said with cabin gain you *may* cycle that low but there is nothing on the current SQ disks that go this low, track 5 uses a kettle drum that rumbles down almost this low but, if you car does this track as it should it will be WAY WAY too bass heavy on track 6. This is not just an nsx problem EVERY car will do this. At the last finals I was at, both usac and iasca I listened to maybe 3 cars that came even close and I listened to maybe 40 cars.
Don’t get too caught up in what they maybe looking for or what the disk says to look for. It’s a law of averages, and you start with all the points they take them away for what you have screwed up.
You will be surprised how low the sub will go, using my program I get an F3 of about 28 and an F6 @ 21. This is pretty awesome really, especially if you want a SQ car. You DO NOT however what to cross it over above the 50 Hz point as it will start to pull the image down and left.
135 from a single 10, no way, not even a high excursion low sensitivity woofer. not set up for SQ anyway and not with out LOTS of power. Not in a sealed box, regardless of what woofer you may use.
and in this car the small cabin is HURTING your chance of a higher spl reading. But will help in low end extension (use the chart above and look at 70hz, see how it dips on the incar response, this will probably be greater in the nsx.)
(FWIW the way that they score SPL for SQ now you will do great at anything over 120)
As far as reaching 17 hz... as Malibu rapper said with cabin gain you *may* cycle that low but there is nothing on the current SQ disks that go this low, track 5 uses a kettle drum that rumbles down almost this low but, if you car does this track as it should it will be WAY WAY too bass heavy on track 6. This is not just an nsx problem EVERY car will do this. At the last finals I was at, both usac and iasca I listened to maybe 3 cars that came even close and I listened to maybe 40 cars.
Don’t get too caught up in what they maybe looking for or what the disk says to look for. It’s a law of averages, and you start with all the points they take them away for what you have screwed up.
You will be surprised how low the sub will go, using my program I get an F3 of about 28 and an F6 @ 21. This is pretty awesome really, especially if you want a SQ car. You DO NOT however what to cross it over above the 50 Hz point as it will start to pull the image down and left.
:biggrin:
01blacks4 said:
Marc thanks for the response..
Im assuming you are referring to the IASCA disc Track 5 about 1:00 - 1:20 which most of the judges that listens to my car refer to when it comes to SUB-BASS response.
Again, your input is appreciated.
And I apologize to the original thread starter for going off tangent.
Thanks
Mike
Vega$ NSX said:
Just do yourself a favor and take care of your hearing. If you really feel you must crank it just for attention, wear earplugs. My ears are completely shot from the years of 150+ dB car audio systems and 20 years of band practices. I wish I could do it over, my wife can't stand that I have to listen to TV so loud just to hear dialog. I'm constantly jumping back 6 seconds on the TiVo to replay lines, sometimes 5 or 6 times and to be honest, I've even started thinking about turning on closed captioning, but that would just be too scary for me to deal with, so I'm still in denial. It's very, very frustrating
.
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Chris@SoS said:
After reading this, I went back to look at the grill again, and it turns out it IS metal. I'm sorry for the mistake! :frown: I dropped it once and it made a very plasticy sound so I guess I just assumed. Sorry for the mistake, I corrected my comments in my earlier post. I'm glad because now I know it won't snap like a plastic grill will. It does have some bending play, so I'll keep a close eye on it and see how it holds up to foot traffic. In a few months I'll take another picture of it and see how it looks.
Thanks again!
Supercar said:
Thank you.
You should check with Chris at SOS, I'm not sure at all. If I had to guess, I would think that they don't but then again they might be able to mirror the molds for RHD cars.
D'Ecosse,
Just a question for you. When I really crank the bass, and close all the doors/windows, I can hear a vibration/rattling sound from the exterior of the car. The best I can describe it is when I had two 12" subs in the trunk of my last car, the pressure from the subs vibrated the trunk deck and it rattled with each bass hit. It sounds like I'm vibrating some body panels, but I can't figure out where. I pressed on everything and to my best guess it seems to be emanating from somewhere near the passenger foot well underneath the car.
Do you have the same vibration/rattling issues? Did you dynomat the passenger foot well to avoid this problem?
Thanks in advance!
Just a question for you. When I really crank the bass, and close all the doors/windows, I can hear a vibration/rattling sound from the exterior of the car. The best I can describe it is when I had two 12" subs in the trunk of my last car, the pressure from the subs vibrated the trunk deck and it rattled with each bass hit. It sounds like I'm vibrating some body panels, but I can't figure out where. I pressed on everything and to my best guess it seems to be emanating from somewhere near the passenger foot well underneath the car.
Do you have the same vibration/rattling issues? Did you dynomat the passenger foot well to avoid this problem?
Thanks in advance!
For this sub applicatin, here's a question regarding 1 ohm, 2 ohm or 4 ohm........If you have a 2-ch amp that is 2 ohm stable per channel and can be bridged to mono, would you elect to run both channels at 2-ohms each or bridge the amp and run 4 ohms with a series connection as shown in the picture? Obvisouly, running two channels means twice the speaker wire, so I'm not really fishing for comments of that nature.
Shaun
Shaun
Vega$ - you need to run down the source of the vibration - doors are a likely source, lots of things that can rattle in there (the door lock button linkage is a good one!); I also found the mirror would vibrate like crazy and was delighted to have this resolved by the the Gentex - check with Sndsoul to get one for you. http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44341
(mirror won't make noise, just is annoying)
It's a good idea to mat the floor, but there's really nothing that can rattle down there so I don't think that will help your fundamental problem.
Did you move the speaker wire at the back of the box? It's possible that is not seating your box tightly & the box or wire is what's buzzing, vibrating against each other or something else ..... pull your box out & try it & see what happens.
You might find multiple sources, not just one .....
Shaun Ray - You really don't want to run seperate amplified outputs to each voice coil, even if they have the same input source. You also cannot run a bridged output to a one ohm load, so parallel is not an option. (Even using an amp that was 1 ohm stable per channel would require 2 ohms load on a bridged O/P )
For this application, 4 ohms in series on bridged output, nothing else.
(mirror won't make noise, just is annoying)
It's a good idea to mat the floor, but there's really nothing that can rattle down there so I don't think that will help your fundamental problem.
Did you move the speaker wire at the back of the box? It's possible that is not seating your box tightly & the box or wire is what's buzzing, vibrating against each other or something else ..... pull your box out & try it & see what happens.
You might find multiple sources, not just one .....
Shaun Ray - You really don't want to run seperate amplified outputs to each voice coil, even if they have the same input source. You also cannot run a bridged output to a one ohm load, so parallel is not an option. (Even using an amp that was 1 ohm stable per channel would require 2 ohms load on a bridged O/P )
For this application, 4 ohms in series on bridged output, nothing else.
Shaun Ray said:
You would most certainly wire the voice coils 4 ohm and bridge the amp.
Supercar said:
I'm sorry, we do not have a RHD car available to prototype the subwoofer enclosure. If the chance ever came up, it would be a possibility.
Please note - Tuesday May 31st is the last day to take advantage of the introductory discounts on the systems and enclosure/subwoofer. Please contact us if you have any questions.
Cheers,
-- Chris
I gotta say, it's been a couple of weeks and I'm still loving it. :biggrin: I'm just looking for excuses to get in my car and crank my stereo now. I even showed my set up to a fellow NSX'er from Washington while he was out here and he seemed blown away by the sub (Chris, I think you've got another order on the way...) The fit and quality is just simply incredible. The pictures just don't do it justice, you have to see it in real life.
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