New product idea, really need help

TURBO2GO

TURBO2GO

Illustrious Member
Joined
8 March 2006
Messages
16,594
Location
Boston
Guys I have been in the home automation industry for about 20 years, and there is a product that I often need that no one makes. It is quite a universal product, I am sure if it existed, thousands would sell. It is a rather simple and inexpensive device, and frankly I am shocked no one makes it, but no one does.

So this is right now a drawing on a napkin. It's an installation tool of sorts. Now I don't know what to do. How to design, patent, bring to market, etc. I found this cool company called Quirky.com that does all of this but I really am not keen on having my idea posted on the internet.

Does anyone have any idea on how to do this? How to not lose my idea to someone else when trying to bring it to life? I am perfectly willing to pay for anyone that can help me.
 
Prime member Russ is a patent attorney, I would think he would be the best person to start with. Patents can be tough and expensive. You need to demonstrate that the tool is unique and that no one else in your industry would of developed the same tool through logical/pragmatic thinking.

Good luck, if you want to patent it, do not post it on the internet, it will then become public domain and make it harder to patent.

Good luck.
 
TURBO2GO said:
Guys I have been in the home automation industry for about 20 years, and there is a product that I often need that no one makes. It is quite a universal product, I am sure if it existed, thousands would sell. It is a rather simple and inexpensive device, and frankly I am shocked no one makes it, but no one does.

So this is right now a drawing on a napkin. It's an installation tool of sorts. Now I don't know what to do. How to design, patent, bring to market, etc. I found this cool company called Quirky.com that does all of this but I really am not keen on having my idea posted on the internet.

Does anyone have any idea on how to do this? How to not lose my idea to someone else when trying to bring it to life? I am perfectly willing to pay for anyone that can help me.
Click to expand...

I saw this show on The History Channel called Inventionland. It's a company in Pittsburgh that does exactly what you are talking about. You go to them with your idea and they take it through the design, prototyping, legal all the way to marketing the licensing to a manufacturer. It's an interesting company that seems like has a long track record and reputation.

http://www.inventionland.com/
 
I have a Book of inventions I am sitting on

I could change the world. but am to scared to show anyone as non of my ideas have patents.

I only have " the poor man patent "

draw out your idea and mail it to yourself. to you from you.
and never open it just file it away. it shows about when you came up with the idea by the stamp the post office uses. its a sealed item from the USPS. thats all I have done so I have a huge 3-ring binder filled to the brim with stuff I have come up with since i was 10 years old

and they kinda dont issue patents intill some one sues you. hence
" patent pending " I am not a lawyer so I may be all wrong.

good luck Turbo2go
 
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Well I know one thing you can do right now is mail your design to yourself. Thus creating a date on which you created the design for future reference in case somebody tries to claim your idea. You have a set date on which you really created it. It's a cheap gimmick to last you until you get a full patented.
 
read my post above yours LOL

do you only read the first post and none of the others?
 
Mailing an idea to yourself is worth about as much as an idea without execution, zero. Mailing the idea does nothing to protect your idea. Getting a patent cost several thousand dollars if you pay a lawyer and under a grand if you do it yourself. If anybody figures out a way around this please let me know so I can also throw my book of ideas and sketches at the wall to see what sticks.
 
Last edited:
The first 3 posts after the OP are good ways to get this started. You should follow through on all of them.

Now the forth post is someone trying to steal the third posts idea:tongue:, hence the need to follow the first post.:wink:
 
I'm happy to answer anyone's patent or general intellectual property questions. I want to stress that rules surrounding disclosure of an idea can be harsh. It's not only a matter of someone else stealing your idea. Public disclosure affects your legal rights, starts clocks ticking, and can even obliterate your patent rights completely in certain jurisdictions. So if you think your idea has value, please, please don't even hint about it on a public forum.

When introducing a new product to market you have two main IP considerations: patentability and right-to-use. Patentability is whether you can obtain meaningful patent protection for your idea. To get a patent in the US you need three things: the invention has to be new, useful, and non-obvious. Basically, this means it has to be patentable subject matter (no perpetual motion machines, no mental-steps only processes), nothing exactly like it is known, and a person of ordinary skill would not have combined two or more known elements to arrive at your invention. This is an extreme oversimplification but sets forth the basic touchstones. That said, anything can be patented. If you want a patent to hang on your den wall, that's easy. Getting a patent that has economic value is another thing entirely.

"Right to use" means you can make, use and sell your idea without infringing on valid patents of another. This is because a patent is a right of exclusion. It entitles you to keep others from making, using, or selling your invention. So, even if you have a patent on your own invention, it does not grant you the right to make, use, & sell it yourself. Someone else may already have a patent covering all, or part, of your invention, and if this is the case, they could sue you for infringement if you bring the product to market.

I could write a book on this (and I just might) but for now, PM me for my email or phone # if you want to discuss specifics.

-Russ
 
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Russ what is the poor man patent worth?

mail to self kinda thing.

and I though the USA doesnt issue a patent intill its disputed by another person claiming it was their idea. then you have to show proof then a patent is issued.

please clear this up for us.

all ears
 
Russ said:
..

To get a patent in the US you need three things: the invention has to be new, useful, and non-obvious. Basically, this means it has to be patentable subject matter (no perpetual motion machines, no mental-steps only processes), nothing exactly like it is known, and a person of ordinary skill would not have combined two or more known elements to arrive at your invention.
...

-Russ
Click to expand...

Russ I know this was oversimplification, but where do additional patents fall when one simply improves "marginally" the design of one's previous existing patent and claims yet another patent for the same manufacturer? Or is this a special subcategory of the original patent hence no new criteria are required to be met?
 
shawn110975 said:
Russ what is the poor man patent worth?

mail to self kinda thing.
Click to expand...

Bupkis.

shawn110975 said:
and I though the USA doesnt issue a patent intill its disputed by another person claiming it was their idea. then you have to show proof then a patent is issued.

please clear this up for us.

all ears
Click to expand...

The US Patent & Trademark Office (known affectionately as the USPTO or PTO) issues a patent based soley on the merits of the patent application. The "merits" includes consideration of earlier patents & publications & general knowledge (collectively, the "prior art"). There are sometimes adverserial proceeding before an application is granted, such as what's called an "interference" (soon to be obsolete, but that's another story).

If a time comes when you are suing someone for patent infrinngement, yes, you will have to prove the patent was issued and that you own it. But this is after the PTO has granted the patent.

Hrant said:
Russ I know this was oversimplification, but where do additional patents fall when one simply improves "marginally" the design of one's previous existing patent and claims yet another patent for the same manufacturer? Or is this a special subcategory of the original patent hence no new criteria are required to be met?
Click to expand...

Hrant, that's the money question right there. Improvements can be patented but they have to be more than, for example, a mere design choice or something that someone of ordinary skill would do in view of the prior art. This falls under the obviousness question and there is no bright line determination of what is or isn't obvious. An improvement may not be obvious (and thus patentable) if, for example, there was a a surprising or unexpected result, the combination was not taught or suggested by the prior art, the invention filled a long-felt need, the prior art suggested the opposite approach and the invention went in a new direction. There are other times where an improvement or additions may be patented, but it must meet certain criteria, for example, it must be based on an existing application that has not yet itself issued as a patent.
 
Having just met with a patent attorney for the first time so I do not profess to be an expert..

The attorney that I went to see offered the first half hour free. Spent an hour and half with him and he still did not charge anything , nice guy and I learned allot.

His prices-$5,000 to file a patent. $1,500 for a patent search (2 hours physically at the patent office). Neither are guaranteed. $500 to file a provisional patent..

You can file a provisional patent yourself $125(small entity). A provisional patent is nothing more than a way for you to protect your idea by sending it to the us patent office, they keep it and then after a year it is discarded. This would protect your idea if you are wanting to show it to others or just give you time to decide what you want to do. But only last a year!

First you need to spend some time at uspto.gov for your patent searches and if you find similar designs pay attention to the patent classifications then search those entire classifications.

You can save some money and file for a patent yourself but after you read a few you might decide to let the pros write it up.

The companies that will help you get a patent or present your idea to companies want something from you. They provide a service, just be sure that is the direction you want to go.



Good luck.
 
You don't need to do a search physically at the patent office. Not sure why the attorney mentioned above suggested that. Also, those prices are just for the govt filing fees. They do not include the attorneys fees.

The whole prosecution process can cost you roughly $30,000 when all is said in done (more if you need to appeal), if you use a legit attorney (They will prob bill out anywhere from 150-500 per hour depending on how many years they have been working.

We have now switched to a first-to-file system, so filing ASAP is of the utmost importance. I would still recommend keeping a good lab notebook just for reference.

Also be sure that you disclose NOTHING to anyone without an express confidential disclosure agreement. Doing so can let others invalidate your patent at a later date even if you get the patent.

Overall, I wouldn't recommend that individuals seek patent protection themselves unless they are well-financed, and/or are generating revenue. Even if you can afford the $30,000 for the prosecution, if you ever wanted to enforce the patent, you would need to spend millions litigating it out--and you are likely to be out-litigated by larger companies. Of course, you can always try to license your patent or settle with a large company. That's pretty risky, and it's up to you whether or not you want to embark on this journey.

If you do go through with the patent, just be sure you are ready to be billed out at $500 an hour ($40 for an email from your lawyer). Also be prepared to get rejections from the patent office, and wait 3-5 (possibly more) years for a final answer (which may be a rejection).

Anyways, in sum, just make sure you are ready to spend the money.
 
Russ said:
I'm happy to answer anyone's patent or general intellectual property questions. I want to stress that rules surrounding disclosure of an idea can be harsh. It's not only a matter of someone else stealing your idea. Public disclosure affects your legal rights, starts clocks ticking, and can even obliterate your patent rights completely in certain jurisdictions. So if you think your idea has value, please, please don't even hint about it on a public forum.

When introducing a new product to market you have two main IP considerations: patentability and right-to-use. Patentability is whether you can obtain meaningful patent protection for your idea. To get a patent in the US you need three things: the invention has to be new, useful, and non-obvious. Basically, this means it has to be patentable subject matter (no perpetual motion machines, no mental-steps only processes), nothing exactly like it is known, and a person of ordinary skill would not have combined two or more known elements to arrive at your invention. This is an extreme oversimplification but sets forth the basic touchstones. That said, anything can be patented. If you want a patent to hang on your den wall, that's easy. Getting a patent that has economic value is another thing entirely.

"Right to use" means you can make, use and sell your idea without infringing on valid patents of another. This is because a patent is a right of exclusion. It entitles you to keep others from making, using, or selling your invention. So, even if you have a patent on your own invention, it does not grant you the right to make, use, & sell it yourself. Someone else may already have a patent covering all, or part, of your invention, and if this is the case, they could sue you for infringement if you bring the product to market.

I could write a book on this (and I just might) but for now, PM me for my email or phone # if you want to discuss specifics.

-Russ
Click to expand...

What does someone do with an idea that modifies and makes better a current product?

I see you answered this already so to be more specific, how can someone protect their idea and try to sell the modification to the current manufacturer?
 
Last edited:
KSXNSX said:
You don't need to do a search physically at the patent office. Not sure why the attorney mentioned above suggested that.
Click to expand...

There are advantages to doing a search at the PTO. If this particular attorney works near Alexandria then it would be the best option.

KSXNSX said:
We have now switched to a first-to-file system
Click to expand...

We (the US) have not switched to a first-to-file file system, yet. That happens in 2013.


steveny said:
What does someone do with an idea that modifies and makes better a current product?

I see you answered this already so to be more specific, how can someone protect their idea and try to sell the modification to the current manufacturer?
Click to expand...

I get asked this a lot, and realistically speaking, unless you have connections in the industry/company, it is very difficult. Also it's a question of leverage. Are you approaching Joe's Plumbing or Kohler? Do you have an idea, a working prototype, or in production? You will first need to protect your invention, ideally by having a patent application on file, and do your due diligence to make sure your invention isn't already out there, disclosed in an existing or expired patent, etc. Know that the company will do it's due diligence also, and will find out whether a) they need the rights from you in the first place, b) they can design-around your idea, or, if they're unscrupulous enough, c) they can just steal it and force to you sue them. Keep in mind patenting costs are but a fraction of the total cost to bring a product to market, and companies know this. The more you bring to the table the better your odds of success.
 
steveny said:
how can someone protect their idea and try to sell the modification to the current manufacturer?
Click to expand...

Very interested in this answer.

Russ thanks for the answers.

Upon further investigation I have found a couple of companies that make something similar... within the same product category... but they are all poor designs and mine does it in a MUCH better way.

So what would you do Russ? I realize you are an attorney but should I just try to manufacture it and sell it? not worry about the patent?

I'm just worried I will make this and it will start to sell really well. Then a big company simply adjusts their tooling and makes what I have and I am left holding the bag.
 
Shawn,

Ideas without actions are just dreams.

shawn110975 said:
I have a Book of inventions I am sitting on

I could change the world. but am to scared to show anyone as non of my ideas have patents.

I only have " the poor man patent "

draw out your idea and mail it to yourself. to you from you.
and never open it just file it away. it shows about when you came up with the idea by the stamp the post office uses. its a sealed item from the USPS. thats all I have done so I have a huge 3-ring binder filled to the brim with stuff I have come up with since i was 10 years old

and they kinda dont issue patents intill some one sues you. hence
" patent pending " I am not a lawyer so I may be all wrong.

good luck Turbo2go
Click to expand...
 
Russ said:
There are advantages to doing a search at the PTO. If this particular attorney works near Alexandria then it would be the best option.



We (the US) have not switched to a first-to-file file system, yet. That happens in 2013.




I get asked this a lot, and realistically speaking, unless you have connections in the industry/company, it is very difficult. Also it's a question of leverage. Are you approaching Joe's Plumbing or Kohler? Do you have an idea, a working prototype, or in production? You will first need to protect your invention, ideally by having a patent application on file, and do your due diligence to make sure your invention isn't already out there, disclosed in an existing or expired patent, etc. Know that the company will do it's due diligence also, and will find out whether a) they need the rights from you in the first place, b) they can design-around your idea, or, if they're unscrupulous enough, c) they can just steal it and force to you sue them. Keep in mind patenting costs are but a fraction of the total cost to bring a product to market, and companies know this. The more you bring to the table the better your odds of success.
Click to expand...

I have a lot of stuff not only in prototype stage but some of it is actually in use in some of our buildings. I have also modified a lot of stuff for a friend of mine who only has one hand so he can use the item that requires two hands with just only one hand. So now he kicks my ass at COD with a joy stick that I made to fit over the keyboard. :biggrin:

Who wants a set of sheets that WILL NOT come off the bed no matter what you do or how thick the mattress is. I got them. I designed and made them from scratch after all other devices I bought and tried failed.

How about a smoke detector that can have the battery changed without your feet leaving the floor, got that in use in many of our buildings. Doesn't matter how high the ceiling is a 90 year old granny could change the battery.

I have over 100 composition notebooks full of other stuff I have yet to make the item or device. Usually I just design and make what I need as I need it.

I was talking with an OBGYN the other day about a procedure I was reading about and asked why they didn't design a portion of an implant differently than the current one in use. I explained how a few tweaks would make the device a lot better. She looked at me shocked and asked why don't I make the damn thing and sell it. I answered because I don't know the right people. In my opinion that is what it all boils down to. Know the right people and you don't even need a patent.

I have the idea for redbox written in one of my notebooks and dated years before the first redbox even appeared. My idea was a little different in that the movie you rented didn't need to be in the machine, just a stack of blank DVDs and a phone line to a data bank. The James Bond version of my redbox only played once and then the DVD would not work again. :biggrin:
 
steveny said:
Who wants a set of sheets that WILL NOT come off the bed no matter what you do or how thick the mattress is. I got them. I designed and made them from scratch after all other devices I bought and tried failed.
Click to expand...
I made two cords with clips at each end. Each cord is
a little shorter than the diagonal size of the mattress.
The cords go under the mattress, each one clipped
to two opposite corners of the fitted sheet.

Steve, is your solution for both sheets or just the fitted sheet?
 

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