New Orleans Wal-Mart Looting video
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steveny said:
In Indiana a State Police Officer might make around $30,000 starting out....maybe.
Just to clarify, I believe that if a community wants professional, educated and honest individuals to protect their freedoms, they must be willing to pay competititive salaries. I imagine the cop pay in N.O. is abysmal and not much of an incentive to attract qualified applicants.
Does anyone have any good read link for the current state on our almighty American Government regarding helping out the Hurricane victims??
I'm in tears and it sent me in a very very bad mood yesterday when I caught the CNN presentation. (yeah, it screws me up pretty bad, as I was getting ready to join a BBQ party, it kills the mood instantly.) I was definately in tears when I see at one part, the reporter asked the man in his 50's, and he lost his wife in his hands... he's so broken down and guilty of himself not being to hold on his wife... he's hugging his grandson.. and said my house torn, my wife is gone, this is all I have.... this is all I have...
Part of it is that I've been trained to "hear" these sort of natural disater from all my life.(I grew up in HK, then moved to seattle 11 yrs ago.) It's not like I don't give a damn, but it seems so far away from me. I feel very very guilty that on Tuesday, when my co-worker lurking on the web site and talked to me on the whole Katrina thing. I stopped him cold, dude, go back to work! We are Americans, they will be fine.
Yes, like a lot of people around here, we mourning the gas price going up to $3.xx because of Katrina...
Then I saw that last night... My body was shaking, (when I turned to the program), I didn't caught the guy's name, but that dude was complaining nobody cares about her mom who's in nusery, all he got is broken promise. but he promised his mom every night, someone will be there to get you out, you'll be fine, and she was gone on Friday.
My poor wife just got back from the store and she was like me earlier and didn't really know what's happening there. She just said, hey lets get ready, turn off the TV. It's just flooding there... I was yelling at her in furious and just losing it for her not caring those people. Of course, she too became speechless after looking at the TV for 2 minutes.
I know there's some help or charity thing going on to them... But from what I heard, I don't think it's the money issue. I also saw the rescue teams were working overtime and restlessly. But seriously, if that's what it takes to take the boat out driving around the city and help people, how difficult could it be? And why it seems like only a handful of people doing it.
Where's our god damn military? I thought they can at least drop some stuff to the people at that dome / mall place?? food, clothes, water and some medication? I have been concerned to the disater like the flooding in China, and earthquake in Taiwan, I can excused the poor handling of the situation is that the government can't do much nor care about its citizens, espeically the poor. It's a real known dog eats dog place... I accepted that.
But to relate to OUR government had the same attitude? We have troops out there in the dessert for years, and we can't do nothing for those fellows who's got trapped?? Am I still in the Unite--d States??
I have to admit I don't know much about the politics and I don't really care for it. But seriously, the image, footage and stories were broadcast to the world. How humiliating is that, how does the other countries looking at us now?
I'm in tears and it sent me in a very very bad mood yesterday when I caught the CNN presentation. (yeah, it screws me up pretty bad, as I was getting ready to join a BBQ party, it kills the mood instantly.) I was definately in tears when I see at one part, the reporter asked the man in his 50's, and he lost his wife in his hands... he's so broken down and guilty of himself not being to hold on his wife... he's hugging his grandson.. and said my house torn, my wife is gone, this is all I have.... this is all I have...
Part of it is that I've been trained to "hear" these sort of natural disater from all my life.(I grew up in HK, then moved to seattle 11 yrs ago.) It's not like I don't give a damn, but it seems so far away from me. I feel very very guilty that on Tuesday, when my co-worker lurking on the web site and talked to me on the whole Katrina thing. I stopped him cold, dude, go back to work! We are Americans, they will be fine.
Yes, like a lot of people around here, we mourning the gas price going up to $3.xx because of Katrina...
Then I saw that last night... My body was shaking, (when I turned to the program), I didn't caught the guy's name, but that dude was complaining nobody cares about her mom who's in nusery, all he got is broken promise. but he promised his mom every night, someone will be there to get you out, you'll be fine, and she was gone on Friday.
My poor wife just got back from the store and she was like me earlier and didn't really know what's happening there. She just said, hey lets get ready, turn off the TV. It's just flooding there... I was yelling at her in furious and just losing it for her not caring those people. Of course, she too became speechless after looking at the TV for 2 minutes.
I know there's some help or charity thing going on to them... But from what I heard, I don't think it's the money issue. I also saw the rescue teams were working overtime and restlessly. But seriously, if that's what it takes to take the boat out driving around the city and help people, how difficult could it be? And why it seems like only a handful of people doing it.
Where's our god damn military? I thought they can at least drop some stuff to the people at that dome / mall place?? food, clothes, water and some medication? I have been concerned to the disater like the flooding in China, and earthquake in Taiwan, I can excused the poor handling of the situation is that the government can't do much nor care about its citizens, espeically the poor. It's a real known dog eats dog place... I accepted that.
But to relate to OUR government had the same attitude? We have troops out there in the dessert for years, and we can't do nothing for those fellows who's got trapped?? Am I still in the Unite--d States??
I have to admit I don't know much about the politics and I don't really care for it. But seriously, the image, footage and stories were broadcast to the world. How humiliating is that, how does the other countries looking at us now?
It is my sincere hope that both of those "officers" are prosecuted to the fullest extent possible and then are fired. I believe that given the situation down there, if one is taking food/water to survive, that is OK. But taking material goods that are not survival goods, is just wrong.
I feel for the victims and hope they can rebuild and get their lives back together.
I feel for the victims and hope they can rebuild and get their lives back together.
I believe a lot of the evacuees bear some responsibility for their well being.They knew of the mandatory evacuation days before.If they really had no means of leaving, then prepare yourself with food and water when going to the Superdome for at least 24 - 48 hours. Noone expected the dame to break. I don't know if any other gov't could have responded to this massive disaster as quickly as we did. Of course, it would have been nice to see everyone evcuated the very next day. But is that realistically possible? I think many of us have unrealstic expectation from our gov't. We are not always the best.NSXDreamer2 said:
The mayor of N.O. cried during his interview saying the State and Federal gov't did not help him. I wondered how much did he do to get people out prior to the arrival o0f the storm. Any articles out there outlining the mayor's evcuation plan?
What's worse than the looting in this situation is that raping that I have been hearing. That's outright disgusting at a time like this.
a shame from many different perspectives.
Unbelievable.
They even seem to be on duty!
Option 1 - do your job helping and protecting the people who are in the midst of their toughest days, ever, and who provide you a paycheck to do so, or
Option 2 - while they are paying you to protect them, steal their stuff and ignore their pleas for help.
Bravo.
Guess the stories about police corruption in the southern US are true. I never would have believed it after my many many many terrific visits to the US.
They even seem to be on duty!
Option 1 - do your job helping and protecting the people who are in the midst of their toughest days, ever, and who provide you a paycheck to do so, or
Option 2 - while they are paying you to protect them, steal their stuff and ignore their pleas for help.
Bravo.
Guess the stories about police corruption in the southern US are true. I never would have believed it after my many many many terrific visits to the US.
Uh...the head of the Army Corps of Engineers went on record saying that everybody knew that the NO levee system could not withstand a Category 4 or higher hurricane strike. That the city would flood was inarguable. The system's design limit was a Cat 3 storm.
People in NO who looted are the same people who yearly make NO one of the leaders in homicide rate. These people are not stealing because they are poor or "desperate." Yeah, they are so fkin desperate they have time to pick out sizes and colors. They ALL looked very starving, didn't they? Right. Bullsh!t, they did.
They are stealing because they are greedy, PERIOD. After the tsunami, was there ANY looting ANYWHERE? Plenty of stuff was laying around. There was never any "law and order" in rural Indonesia, before, during, or after the catastrophe. Those types of people don't loot, it's as simple as that. The types of people in NO who contribute to its aberrantly high crime rate DO.
As for cops in the Big Easy, their corruption is legendary. A black female cop once shot a storeowner in a holdup and then answered her own robbery/homicide call. When she showed up, probably to try to retrieve any onsite security tape, there was much confusion as the asian wife of the dead proprietor was telling the other officers present that she was the shooter. They didn't understand her because she was telling them something which just didn't make sense. Like, honey, you cannot speak engrish b/c you are saying "she the killer." What do you mean? I mean, you can imagine this conversation. Eventually, the cop was arrested and prosecuted.
It is not low pay which gets these departments their horrid personnel, it is the type of people they hire. When you let looks and racial quotas based upon population demographics dictate your hiring policies, you end up with people hired not because of who they are but how they look. DC went through the same types of issues when Barry was mayor. We had cops doing drivebys out of squad cars and selling guns and drugs out of the trunks of their cruisers while on-shift. When issues other than qualifications become important to hirers, you end up with the less-qualified. It has nothing to do with money or pay.
People in NO who looted are the same people who yearly make NO one of the leaders in homicide rate. These people are not stealing because they are poor or "desperate." Yeah, they are so fkin desperate they have time to pick out sizes and colors. They ALL looked very starving, didn't they? Right. Bullsh!t, they did.
They are stealing because they are greedy, PERIOD. After the tsunami, was there ANY looting ANYWHERE? Plenty of stuff was laying around. There was never any "law and order" in rural Indonesia, before, during, or after the catastrophe. Those types of people don't loot, it's as simple as that. The types of people in NO who contribute to its aberrantly high crime rate DO.
As for cops in the Big Easy, their corruption is legendary. A black female cop once shot a storeowner in a holdup and then answered her own robbery/homicide call. When she showed up, probably to try to retrieve any onsite security tape, there was much confusion as the asian wife of the dead proprietor was telling the other officers present that she was the shooter. They didn't understand her because she was telling them something which just didn't make sense. Like, honey, you cannot speak engrish b/c you are saying "she the killer." What do you mean? I mean, you can imagine this conversation. Eventually, the cop was arrested and prosecuted.
It is not low pay which gets these departments their horrid personnel, it is the type of people they hire. When you let looks and racial quotas based upon population demographics dictate your hiring policies, you end up with people hired not because of who they are but how they look. DC went through the same types of issues when Barry was mayor. We had cops doing drivebys out of squad cars and selling guns and drugs out of the trunks of their cruisers while on-shift. When issues other than qualifications become important to hirers, you end up with the less-qualified. It has nothing to do with money or pay.
Uh.. no one thought the levees would be breeched. Failing and breaching when used in context to a levee mean two different things.
Hurricane Pam scenario predicted massive failure and flooding but no breech. The levee that was breeched was one of the newer designs and it was a shock to most to see it happen there.
The previous mayor or NO said they had an evacuation plan for the city but it takes 72 hours to implement. At that time Katrina had just crossed FL and no models predicted a direct hit on NO.
NSX-Stalker
Hurricane Pam scenario predicted massive failure and flooding but no breech. The levee that was breeched was one of the newer designs and it was a shock to most to see it happen there.
The previous mayor or NO said they had an evacuation plan for the city but it takes 72 hours to implement. At that time Katrina had just crossed FL and no models predicted a direct hit on NO.
NSX-Stalker
Last edited:
NSX-Stalker said:
Huh? The levee system was designed for a CATEGORY 3 hurricane. No more. Don't believe me? Read the well-published quotes from Lt. Gen. Carl Strock, the head of the Army Corps. He claims that the flooding would still have occurred and Eng. Corps officials are UNANIMOUS that the flood was caused by the fact that the hurricane EXCEEDED THE DESIGN LIMITS of the levee system, not because of any lack of funding or other BS that has been batted around.
Hurricane who? "Massive failure" = breech. That's what happens to earthen dikes when their design capacity is exceeded. Water flows over them and the structures fail completely.
Well, I guess he was wrong, eh? He obviously was whistling past the graveyard like those looting cops were.
I think the evacuation plan was either not executed or barely implemented. Like I said earlier, Florida bussed lots of poor people out when Ivan came.
Re: hmmm...
Good point, I guess no one else see's the difference in the pics. Been a lot of racial tension about the subject. Black people looted and other victim's found stuff? Which one's are the refugee's?????????
Osiris_x11 said:Well, does this make any sense?!?
:frown:
==========================================================
Those photos are from two different sources, two different photographers.
The photographer has made a statement as to the choice of the word "finding" over "looting."
http://www.poynter.org/column.asp?i...://www.poynter.org/column.asp?id=45&aid=88106
"Chris Graythen wrote the caption for his photo of two hurricane survivors with bread and soda.
"I believed in my opinion, that they did simply find them, and not 'looted' them in the definition of the word, " he writes.
"The people were swimming in chest deep water, and there were other people in the water, both white and black. I looked for the best picture. There were a million items floating in the water - we were right near a grocery store that had 5+ feet of water in it. It had no doors. The water was moving, and the stuff was floating away. These people were not ducking into a store and busting down windows to get electronics. They picked up bread and cokes that were floating in the water. They would have floated away anyhow.""
Good point, I guess no one else see's the difference in the pics. Been a lot of racial tension about the subject. Black people looted and other victim's found stuff? Which one's are the refugee's?????????
I said that there was no prediction of a complete levee breech by the city or the state
Here is the state of LA evacuation plan.
http://www.ohsep.louisiana.gov/plans/EOPSupplement1a.pdf
Hurricane Pam simulation http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9175204/
What they hint at in the article above is "or the levees being breached". The strength of the simulated hurricane Pam predicted that 200,000 would stay and a much larger storm surge would hit. To a drowning person it doesn't matter how the water got there. In Pam the water swamped the levees and filled the city, end result was the same. The levees, as you stated, cannot take a category 5 hurricane. A good analogy is flying. You can build a safer passenger airline with less mean time between failure, but it will be too expensive to sell a ticket. The cost to gain the extra small percentage of safety is huge. The same is with a levee that can take a cat 5 for NO.
Yes, everyone knew this could happen. And if you have can't follow your plan you're going to have a breakdown. You'll note by reading the evac plan that the aftermath was something they planned for as well.
Again, read the evac plan and you'll see exactly how difficult it is and why it might take that long.
Here's a pic of the buses they should have been moving the people out with. Estimated 200 here.
NSX-Stalker
Re: hmmm...
Well, one person has a loaf of bread, the other a bunch of sporting goods and team apparel. One is finding, the other is looting.
Ko-nsx said:Good point, I guess no one else see's the difference in the pics. Been a lot of racial tension about the subject. Black people looted and other victim's found stuff? Which one's are the refugee's?????????
Well, one person has a loaf of bread, the other a bunch of sporting goods and team apparel. One is finding, the other is looting.
Not gonna get into any of that stuff. All I know is the skinny person with a 12 pack of diet pepsi in the first pic doesnt seem fitting to be the drink of preference for them. :smile:
If I had my choice of soda or water, I would take soda :redface:
If I had my choice of soda or water, I would take soda :redface:
Re: hmmm...
sporting goods and team apparel?
liftshard said:
sporting goods and team apparel?
benign indifference to compassion. :frown:
I feel sick.
We are here 1000s of miles away running around in our 80,000$ sport cars while we pass judgment on people who just been through a natural disaster not to mention a man made disaster after that too boot.....
Once again this just re-enforces the indifference of America to the needs of the poor.
USA = the rich get richer while the poor don't die.... well they are now... so there goes that saying.
Rich get richer..... and the poor..... hum....
If you where starving and needed some new cloth cause your cant wash yours in the washer... what would you do? ROB A BANANA Republic leave the wal-mart crap to the poor people.
if there was no consequences to the madness, how many of you would be still riding your high horse? personally, i would sell my pony for a truck ASAP and be honest about my human nature to steal, rob, and pillage. Drive to the nearest Fry's electronics and load up.
Less judging and more loading up the F150 with glorious goods.
Poor people...
no class... why would you rob a wal-mart?
I feel sick.
We are here 1000s of miles away running around in our 80,000$ sport cars while we pass judgment on people who just been through a natural disaster not to mention a man made disaster after that too boot.....
Once again this just re-enforces the indifference of America to the needs of the poor.
USA = the rich get richer while the poor don't die.... well they are now... so there goes that saying.
Rich get richer..... and the poor..... hum....
If you where starving and needed some new cloth cause your cant wash yours in the washer... what would you do? ROB A BANANA Republic
leave the wal-mart crap to the poor people.if there was no consequences to the madness, how many of you would be still riding your high horse? personally, i would sell my pony for a truck ASAP and be honest about my human nature to steal, rob, and pillage. Drive to the nearest Fry's electronics and load up.
Less judging and more loading up the F150 with glorious goods.
Poor people...
no class... why would you rob a wal-mart?
Let me have some of what you been smoking. I usually get the muchies, but you must have some crucial stuff that makes you contradict yourself. :tongue:
Its also human nature to do the exact opposite. Im pretty sure that as many people were looting, there were just as many who gave generously, donated time, and volunteered to help. What high horse are they on?
Its also human nature to do the exact opposite. Im pretty sure that as many people were looting, there were just as many who gave generously, donated time, and volunteered to help. What high horse are they on?
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