New NSX-S suspension VS Zanardi
- Thread starter MJK
- Start date
Well, I had everything (almost) assembled. Now all I needed was those nylox nuts for the shock mounts. Now, how difficult would it be to find fasteners. Right ?
After trips to 3 Acura dealers in the bay area. And to a closed "Mr Metric" I had one 12x1.5 and 10x1.5 (or some such) nut . Need to order the rest from Niello in sacramento. Apparently my master clutch cylinder is leaking as well. So might as well get all the parts in one shot.
As far the tool collection todate. A 2 ton hydraulic jack from sears (craftsman made in china for some 35$). A torque wrench + gorilla breaker bar from tirerack pbblaster etc. Got a brand new service manual. Now one of these free weekends will get to it.
However, I am currently in consultation with myself to decide if I should rather be saving for a house. Once I sell my lude off, the X is just under 20k worth of payments and some additional 2-3k per year of maintenance. Not too bad, but that'll push my house buying back. If I decide to sell the X off now (being all stock) I can always buy a later year model in a few years. Nasty thoughts these. Ofcourse, buying a house in the bayarea is also madness.
Hey, thanks for the quick line back!
FWIW, I just did the clutch master & slave last weekend. If you need some tips, drop me a line. I would be happy to help (remotely - TN is a hell of a commute).
Let me know how the install goes. Koni + Zanardi + sways is still the plan on this end eventually. What are you doing on the sways?
No kidding on Bay Area real estate, but on the bright side you do get a house in the Bay Area. I was just in LA last week, and the weather out there is perfect (Bay Area equally so to LA) Good luck with the decision!
FWIW, I just did the clutch master & slave last weekend. If you need some tips, drop me a line. I would be happy to help (remotely - TN is a hell of a commute).
Let me know how the install goes. Koni + Zanardi + sways is still the plan on this end eventually. What are you doing on the sways?
No kidding on Bay Area real estate, but on the bright side you do get a house in the Bay Area. I was just in LA last week, and the weather out there is perfect (Bay Area equally so to LA) Good luck with the decision!
Just a follow up on the discussion re Bilstein and Zanardi springs.
I finally talked to the folks at Bilstein and they inform me that the Bisltein HD that we use for the NSX are valved/tuned to match the OEM springs and will also work well with the Eibachs.
But if you exceed the spring compression/rebound rates of the OEM springs by more than 20% they recommend to revalve the Bilstein dampers. Cost is $65 per damper. What they will do once you place or order or ship your BVilstein is call you and and talk to you to make sure the valving is correctly matched to your springs and driving needs.
So as MJ noted correctly, mating the Zanardi springs with Bilstein dampers is pushing the limits of the Bisltein.
Unfortunately, it appears that there are no other linear, non-progressive, springs at this time in the marketplace that can be mated with Bilstein and without lowering the car more than 0.75 inch. Some of us have driveways that need to be cleared!
HTH
I finally talked to the folks at Bilstein and they inform me that the Bisltein HD that we use for the NSX are valved/tuned to match the OEM springs and will also work well with the Eibachs.
But if you exceed the spring compression/rebound rates of the OEM springs by more than 20% they recommend to revalve the Bilstein dampers. Cost is $65 per damper. What they will do once you place or order or ship your BVilstein is call you and and talk to you to make sure the valving is correctly matched to your springs and driving needs.
So as MJ noted correctly, mating the Zanardi springs with Bilstein dampers is pushing the limits of the Bisltein.
Unfortunately, it appears that there are no other linear, non-progressive, springs at this time in the marketplace that can be mated with Bilstein and without lowering the car more than 0.75 inch. Some of us have driveways that need to be cleared!
HTH
So I started doing the koni + zanardi swap last weekend. Yup, still doin it. I did one really stupid thing and was really gentle with the front springs so it did take me a while to get them out. And then, the 98% monkey in me insisted that I not read the specs and actually try to get the longer spring on what looked like the longer shock! One can imagine me trying to attach two spring compressors to the spring and try to get the cap on the shock (^*#$#@!$. Believe it or not, the spring compressor screw itself bent under the strain.
Finally, looked up the spring lengths again and realized that I was trying to compress the rear springs to fit on the front shock. Doh. Prime idiot.
Anyways, since that time I had to remove one of the front shocks again as I did not bother to install the dust protection bellows on the new shock. Now I bet I can install a new front shock in around 20 minutes flat.
The rears are another story all together. Even following the instructions on nsxsc.com (Which is an excellent write up by the way), I am still not able to pry the shock in.
Will attempt to put the rears in tomorrow. Have a new long pry bar. Hopefully it will work out. I have taken as many photos as I could abd will post a detailed write up once I get done with it, hopefully by the end of the week.
The Z springs are also shorter than the stock ones, so I needed to tie the lower perch to the top-cap using some twine. That way I can just concentrate on compressing the shock and pushing it in the lower knuckle (?).
I am leaving the ARBs alone for now. Will see how much difference the shocks and springs make on dail driving first.
Finally, looked up the spring lengths again and realized that I was trying to compress the rear springs to fit on the front shock. Doh. Prime idiot.
Anyways, since that time I had to remove one of the front shocks again as I did not bother to install the dust protection bellows on the new shock. Now I bet I can install a new front shock in around 20 minutes flat.
The rears are another story all together. Even following the instructions on nsxsc.com (Which is an excellent write up by the way), I am still not able to pry the shock in.
Will attempt to put the rears in tomorrow. Have a new long pry bar. Hopefully it will work out. I have taken as many photos as I could abd will post a detailed write up once I get done with it, hopefully by the end of the week.
The Z springs are also shorter than the stock ones, so I needed to tie the lower perch to the top-cap using some twine
. That way I can just concentrate on compressing the shock and pushing it in the lower knuckle (?).I am leaving the ARBs alone for now. Will see how much difference the shocks and springs make on dail driving first.
I just installed coilovers this evening.
By using the spring compressors on the rear springs, the old units came out a charm. I had a pry bar (4' pipe) but really didn't need a whole lot of leverage on it. I was able to to lever with one hand while guiding the shock out of the lower mount, leaving the top nuts "cracked" but supporting the shock till it was free of the lower mount. With the link, sway bar, pin removed etc, it then took less than 5 minutes to clamp on the spring compressors & remove the shock. I've read horror stories of guys taking hours prying on that lower suspension to try to get the rear shock out! Using the spring compressors is the key.
Installing the Coilovers is a snap, as they adjust to make the shock short initially for easy access, before re-adjusting to final height.
However if I was re-installing the OEMs I would use the same method of leaving the spring comressed with the compressor links, installing the top & running the top nuts down (but not tight) then pushing in the lower part of the strut, while prying down on the lower suspension assembly.
Here's a pic of the compressors in place bar at the ready.
By using the spring compressors on the rear springs, the old units came out a charm. I had a pry bar (4' pipe) but really didn't need a whole lot of leverage on it. I was able to to lever with one hand while guiding the shock out of the lower mount, leaving the top nuts "cracked" but supporting the shock till it was free of the lower mount. With the link, sway bar, pin removed etc, it then took less than 5 minutes to clamp on the spring compressors & remove the shock. I've read horror stories of guys taking hours prying on that lower suspension to try to get the rear shock out! Using the spring compressors is the key.
Installing the Coilovers is a snap, as they adjust to make the shock short initially for easy access, before re-adjusting to final height.
However if I was re-installing the OEMs I would use the same method of leaving the spring comressed with the compressor links, installing the top & running the top nuts down (but not tight) then pushing in the lower part of the strut, while prying down on the lower suspension assembly.
Here's a pic of the compressors in place bar at the ready.
Attachments
And of course, the new JIC FLT-A2 Coil-overs installed
Just my two cents: I've owned five early NSXs since 1991, including Zanardi #14. I now own a 2003 NSX as a daily driver, and recently drove Ben's TIEN RA current model NSX in Miami (www.wheelsboutique.com 866-51-wheel, [email protected] — Ben is easy to work with, extremely knowledgeable NSX wheel/suspension vendor). Bottom line, I LOVE The TIEN for street. It is more compliant around town than my new NSX. It is WAY more compliant around town than my old Zanardi (even though I typically like a stiff setup for hitting those exits ramps). The TIEN was a bit more stiff (e.g. jittery) on the poor highway we drove on, but being adjustable, that is an easy fix. Although I have never driven the Type-R suspension, even hardened super car reviewers have complained about it's "kidney busting" attributes — especially for everyday driving. Finally, ask Ben about his clutch — superb! Minimal pedal travel, slightly more pedal pressure required, though very smooth and linear. I am going to put both the TIEN and the clutch into my street car. Ben has tried all sorts of combinations on his own car, and has found a superb setup of wheels, suspension, and clutch.Hrant said:
Sorry man, couldn't disagree with you more strongly. I drove a TEIN equipped car & even on full soft it literally pogo'd across a parking lot at a little more than walking speed. Another of the local guys here, after months of trying to get it "tuned" gave up finally & punted his in favour of the NSX-R set-up, which he's delighted with.serialNSXer said:
This isn't meant to be a "mine is better than yours" response (although I suppose it is!) but mine & many others' experience actually confirm your own suggestion as to what others have reported.
The JIC's however are really wonderfully compliant yet stiffer than stock - I have 10kg/mm on the front with 9kg/mm on the rears and since I installed them last night have only driven them on full-soft. Still feels firm & tight but even over the speed-bumps in a parking lot was not bone-jarring. Through turns it is definitely an improvement over stock. I have yet to test the more aggressive settings with firmer damping rates but for around town, the full soft feels great.
Got it at my local auto-parts/accessory store - you should be able to find one easily. It was only $30. Actually some stores will let you borrow or rent them, but at that price, not a killer anyway.White94 said:
If you look at the pic again, for the NSX application I'd be tempted to just cut about 4" or 5" off the bottom of the screws - you really don't need all that & it just gets in the way!
Who else is running NSX-R suspension in the SF Bay Area?
Hi Ken,
Just curious who where you referring to? I was only aware of a single NSX owner in the Bay Area switching to the NSX-R's suspension and that was Jim (white NSX). I was trying to track down someone with the NSX-R suspension so that I could drive their car and get a feel for it.
I need to get my Tein RA's rebuilt because one the numerous track events on them and it feels like one of the corners has headed south, so I was considering using the NSX-R suspension as a stopgap while getting the Tein's rebuilt.
Ken
D'Ecosse said:
Hi Ken,
Just curious who where you referring to? I was only aware of a single NSX owner in the Bay Area switching to the NSX-R's suspension and that was Jim (white NSX). I was trying to track down someone with the NSX-R suspension so that I could drive their car and get a feel for it.
I need to get my Tein RA's rebuilt because one the numerous track events on them and it feels like one of the corners has headed south, so I was considering using the NSX-R suspension as a stopgap while getting the Tein's rebuilt.
Ken
D'Ecosse,
Congrats on the JIC's..I know you've spent alot of time looking for something that would work out for you.
Looking forward to your further impressions.
Later,
Charles
Congrats on the JIC's..I know you've spent alot of time looking for something that would work out for you.
Looking forward to your further impressions.
Later,
Charles
White94 said:
Mark,
When I DIY'ed my Bilstiens, I rented a set of spring compressors from a local Autozone free of charge. You put down a deposit and get it back once your return it. Good luck on the install... i'm sure you'll be fine if you've changed out your own headers...
Steve
Ken - you'll see from Charles signature above there is another type R suspension in the area He is the ex TEIN convert I referred to.
He is the ex TEIN convert I referred to.Re: New NSX-S suspension VS Zanardi. Koni+Z
In response to the original thread:
I have now been driving the car with konis + Zanardi springs for the last few days. Currently at
Front: full stiff
Rear : 1 turn stiff from full-soft
Will wait for a few more days and get it realigned.
Now, from all the opinions in the forum, I was expecting a real harsh ride. It could be possible that I am not sensitive enough, but I really dont see much difference in ride quality between the stock setup and this one (with above settings). I like it this way. Feels exactly like what I expect a stock NSX to be.
The fronts seem to skip/hop under acceleration in a turn. Not sure if this is because of the stiffness or alignment. Will experiment once it is aligned.
The initial turn in has significantly sharpened. Again shocks or alignment ?
My tail is once again desperate to come around to the front and say hi. This could just be the need to realign the car. I'll run the rears even softer if needed.
So basically I am happy with the new setup and am running it reasonably stiff as it feel perfect.
An interesting side effect of the DIY. The car was up on jacks the whole week. As I had forgotten to close the door completely, the battery predictably ran out on me. Had to jump start the car and all that. Now the car feels like it has gained a few HP. The engine is noticeably more responsive. I am assuming some random eprom setting was cleared out and the next feedback loop reinitialized something. I guess everyone should disconnect their bettery once in a while to erase random ecu memory.
I'll cleanup the photos I have taken and start a new thread on the koni + Z install DIY. If someone wants to do it this weekend lemme know and I'll hurry up on the instructions.
-vamsi
In response to the original thread:
I have now been driving the car with konis + Zanardi springs for the last few days. Currently at
Front: full stiff
Rear : 1 turn stiff from full-soft
Will wait for a few more days and get it realigned.
Now, from all the opinions in the forum, I was expecting a real harsh ride. It could be possible that I am not sensitive enough, but I really dont see much difference in ride quality between the stock setup and this one (with above settings). I like it this way. Feels exactly like what I expect a stock NSX to be.
The fronts seem to skip/hop under acceleration in a turn. Not sure if this is because of the stiffness or alignment. Will experiment once it is aligned.
The initial turn in has significantly sharpened. Again shocks or alignment ?
My tail is once again desperate to come around to the front and say hi. This could just be the need to realign the car. I'll run the rears even softer if needed.
So basically I am happy with the new setup and am running it reasonably stiff as it feel perfect.
An interesting side effect of the DIY. The car was up on jacks the whole week. As I had forgotten to close the door completely, the battery predictably ran out on me. Had to jump start the car and all that. Now the car feels like it has gained a few HP. The engine is noticeably more responsive. I am assuming some random eprom setting was cleared out and the next feedback loop reinitialized something. I guess everyone should disconnect their bettery once in a while to erase random ecu memory
.I'll cleanup the photos I have taken and start a new thread on the koni + Z install DIY. If someone wants to do it this weekend lemme know and I'll hurry up on the instructions.
-vamsi
Vamsi! I had completely missed that this was you earlier in the thread! Congrats on getting your job completed and glad to hear that you are pleased with the Koni's.
Thanks ken. And thanks for painting them dark. Yellow would have been disturbing.And yeah, I probably did forget to mention this. The shocks are from ken and the springs are from Tank via Nguyen. Ken had painted then a dark blue and it is close enough to black that it doesnt draw attention.
Re: New NSX-S suspension VS Zanardi. Koni+Z
SWEET, these are on my living room floor as we speak!
joove said:In response to the original thread:
I have now been driving the car with konis + Zanardi springs for the last few days. Currently at
Front: full stiff
Rear : 1 turn stiff from full-soft
Will wait for a few more days and get it realigned.
Now, from all the opinions in the forum, I was expecting a real harsh ride. It could be possible that I am not sensitive enough, but I really dont see much difference in ride quality between the stock setup and this one (with above settings). I like it this way. Feels exactly like what I expect a stock NSX to be.
The fronts seem to skip/hop under acceleration in a turn. Not sure if this is because of the stiffness or alignment. Will experiment once it is aligned.
The initial turn in has significantly sharpened. Again shocks or alignment ?
My tail is once again desperate to come around to the front and say hi. This could just be the need to realign the car. I'll run the rears even softer if needed.
So basically I am happy with the new setup and am running it reasonably stiff as it feel perfect.
An interesting side effect of the DIY. The car was up on jacks the whole week. As I had forgotten to close the door completely, the battery predictably ran out on me. Had to jump start the car and all that. Now the car feels like it has gained a few HP. The engine is noticeably more responsive. I am assuming some random eprom setting was cleared out and the next feedback loop reinitialized something. I guess everyone should disconnect their bettery once in a while to erase random ecu memory
I'll cleanup the photos I have taken and start a new thread on the koni + Z install DIY. If someone wants to do it this weekend lemme know and I'll hurry up on the instructions.
-vamsi
SWEET, these are on my living room floor as we speak!
joove said:
Oh c'mon Vamsi - where's your sense of adventure
- they're PURPLE
D'Ecosse said:Oh c'mon Vamsi - where's your sense of adventure
- they're PURPLE
Sense of adventure is right around here somewhere. Sense of color is whats run away. Good that it wasnt some non-color like teal or muave or some such..
And Mark: Make sure you have these extra tools with you
- small pry bar (6-8 inches)
- long narrow pry bar (Craftsman. 20 incher)
- a small spool of thin twine (I used jute).
- round file.
With the Z and koni's you wont really need spring compresors. But wont hurt to get them if you have an autozone nearby. There are two types. Get the "Strut Style Compressor" only.
I also found the gear-wrench kit extremely useful. Life saver.
It should take you all of 4 hours to replace the shocks if you have all tools in place.
-vamsi
joove said:
Maybe not to re-install, but it really makes for a much easier job of removing the OEM rears. Better than risking ripping your CV Boot.
hmm..
I guess so.. But the problem with the spring compressors is..
1. Painful as hell to wrench it.
2. The threads are too long and it needs reasonable maneuvering.
3. If you use a lshortprybar, you can pry it till the bottom moves out of the knucke ? and then the moment the susp is pushed down it comes of relatively easily..
It is prolly safer to use the compressors. I personally found that I didnt need it at all. The fronts too. I used the compressors on the first one. Took me 2 hours. The second one, with my improved procedure and a short pry bar took all of 10 minutes to get out..
But like Ken says, there is a distinct risk of dmaging the CV boot if not careful. This is more likely to happen if a lot of force is applied and you can't stop the movement of the shock in time. A pry-bar gives you far greater control.
If you do use the compressors. Note a couple of things.
1. Use two of them.
2, Dont let one of them compress too much before switching to the other, The spring bends and causes all sorts of problems if you have a box wrench turning the compressors nut.
3. Using a ratcheting wrench works beautifully (Autozone's compressors need a 19mm wrench)
4. Position them appropriately so that the compressor bolt/screw wont hit the susp arms.
I guess so.. But the problem with the spring compressors is..
1. Painful as hell to wrench it.
2. The threads are too long and it needs reasonable maneuvering.
3. If you use a lshortprybar, you can pry it till the bottom moves out of the knucke ? and then the moment the susp is pushed down it comes of relatively easily..
It is prolly safer to use the compressors. I personally found that I didnt need it at all. The fronts too. I used the compressors on the first one. Took me 2 hours. The second one, with my improved procedure and a short pry bar took all of 10 minutes to get out..
But like Ken says, there is a distinct risk of dmaging the CV boot if not careful. This is more likely to happen if a lot of force is applied and you can't stop the movement of the shock in time. A pry-bar gives you far greater control.
If you do use the compressors. Note a couple of things.
1. Use two of them.
2, Dont let one of them compress too much before switching to the other, The spring bends and causes all sorts of problems if you have a box wrench turning the compressors nut.
3. Using a ratcheting wrench works beautifully (Autozone's compressors need a 19mm wrench)
4. Position them appropriately so that the compressor bolt/screw wont hit the susp arms.
lots of good info above ....
A litttle more input -
Mine were pretty tight: even with a lot of initial force on the lever w/o compressing the springs they weren't coming out! (I've read similar reports of 6' 250 lb guys standing on these & still sweating over it) I didn't spend a lot of time on it & put the SC's to work. Mine only have 29K miles on them so still pretty good shape, maybe a little stiffer?
I agree about the manouverability of the long threads on the compressor - I bought mine ($30) which isn't a big investment & if I had to use them again, I would cut the length of the screws downs by 4-5". I kept them on the lowest coils I could access & only on about 3 coils total spread. (See pic on previous page)
Mine were pretty substantial, actually a 24mm nut on the screw! A ratcheting wrench as V. suggests, would make it go really quick.
Also, on the subject of saving the boot - do not remove the top nuts completely but just crack them about half-way: this will stop them from getting away from you. Once you have manouvered the shock safely out of the lower mount, you can remove them & withdraw the shock.
If anyone local needs to borrow some spring compressors I'd be happy to lend mine - they're not something you use every day & I don't need them at all for my coilovers.
A litttle more input -
Mine were pretty tight: even with a lot of initial force on the lever w/o compressing the springs they weren't coming out! (I've read similar reports of 6' 250 lb guys standing on these & still sweating over it) I didn't spend a lot of time on it & put the SC's to work. Mine only have 29K miles on them so still pretty good shape, maybe a little stiffer?
I agree about the manouverability of the long threads on the compressor - I bought mine ($30) which isn't a big investment & if I had to use them again, I would cut the length of the screws downs by 4-5". I kept them on the lowest coils I could access & only on about 3 coils total spread. (See pic on previous page)
Mine were pretty substantial, actually a 24mm nut on the screw! A ratcheting wrench as V. suggests, would make it go really quick.
Also, on the subject of saving the boot - do not remove the top nuts completely but just crack them about half-way: this will stop them from getting away from you. Once you have manouvered the shock safely out of the lower mount, you can remove them & withdraw the shock.
If anyone local needs to borrow some spring compressors I'd be happy to lend mine - they're not something you use every day & I don't need them at all for my coilovers.
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