New NSX not MR: Sellout anyone?

[BD]

Back in 07, we had a poll which had 265 votes, the most votes by far.

The results indicated 92.4% wanted Mid-engine compared to 3% which wanted front engine.

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82263

Yeah, it's amazing how fast people change their mind with this poll.

Now is the biggest question, I'm sure Honda knows the answer.

Out of the 92.4 who wanted the MR platform from the first survey, or the 60% or so from the current survey, how many of them bought their NSX new? Or have the ability to buy a new NSX; or willing to spend 90k on a new NSX?

I bet you few will raise their hand.:wink:

 

[Arfiman]

If I know one things, it's this: when Honda wants to make a performance car, they make a bloody good one.

I have been a Honda nut for a while now, first falling in love with the EP3 Type R and selling it for the S I still have. They are both tremendous fun to drive and definitely set a benchmark in their category (hot hatch, roadster). The NSX has always been a dream of many people, including myself, and the initial two weeks of ownership has only hardened my overall love for Honda.

I have faith in them and whether it is an MR or an FR, whether it is purpose built racer or a GT I have a very strong feeling that this car will be nothing less than phenomenal when it finally does arrive and will acheive its objectives and reflect its heritage.

Who cares if its MR, if its the next NSX or not people - it is the next Honda supercar, be excited!!

 

[Silver F16]

While many of us including me did not buy the NSX brand new, that doesn't necessary rule us out as new car buyers for the NSX replacement.

After owning the NSX for a few years, I am now ready for a new NSX. Part of getting older is having more disposable income. A decade ago, The price of a new NSX was out of reach for many of us but may now be within reach. I am sure many of us can relate to this. In addition, after owning a used NSX, one cannot deny the desire of getting a new one. For Honda to deny the used NSX owners is foolish because they also represent future new NSX buyers.

With that said, shortly after I saw the HSC, I was ready to buy it new when it was introduced. Sadly the mid-engine lightweight sports car dream of Soichiro Honda is now dead. We have this OK looking heavy V10 GT instead. No thank you. Other than the sound of the engine, nothing about it lights my fire. For the lack of emotions the new car lacks, you will not get me to plunk my hard earned dollars into this car.

The only new cars that stirs my soul these days are Ferrari and Lambos. However, with the price tags those new car commands, I may have to wait another decade or two. That's ok. I am patient. For I believe the wait will fuel the dream and make the taste all the more sweeter when it becomes reality.

 

[WingZ]

Hey Silver does this light any fires

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/B0OTEZDAb9c&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/B0OTEZDAb9c&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[Silver F16]

Yea, I've seen the long video and the only thing that I liked was the sound of the engine. You and I are not after all out speed and fastest Ring time.

 

[WingZ]

Yea, I've seen the long video and the only thing that I liked was the sound of the engine. You and I are not after all out speed and fastest Ring time.

Yeah you got me there. I'm really digging it though and that exhaust note is giving me chills. I'm not giving up the NSX so this car being front engined doesn't bother me at all. I love the S2K so I already know what Honda can at the $30k range and the $90k range so at the $150K ... LOOK OUT

 

[drivingnirvana]

Yeah, it's amazing how fast people change their mind with this poll.

Now is the biggest question, I'm sure Honda knows the answer.

Out of the 92.4 who wanted the MR platform from the first survey, or the 60% or so from the current survey, how many of them bought their NSX new? Or have the ability to buy a new NSX; or willing to spend 90k on a new NSX?

I bet you few will raise their hand.:wink:

I am pretty sure all primers know this.

 

[drivingnirvana]

Yeah you got me there. I'm really digging it though and that exhaust note is giving me chills. I'm not giving up the NSX so this car being front engined doesn't bother me at all. I love the S2K so I already know what Honda can at the $30k range and the $90k range so at the $150K ... LOOK OUT

I love what you said right there, awesome. Indeed, look out!

 

[UxiNSX]

Not quite a sell out and I would prefer a real "NA3" NSX that was a further evolution of the NA1 and NA2. I would imagine my dream NA3 being an evolution of the NA2 with the vented hood from the NA2 NSX Type-R with CF hood, integrated CF spoiler (with the body lines lined up to it), MR with a 9000rpm V10, fixed bi-xenons if not LED front headlights, S2000'esque LED, navi and SH-AWD tails sounds oh so much better. Scrape off all the dead weight for the Type-R, of course but don't make the only option for NA the heaviest.

But this new thing could still be a great car. They just shouldn't call it in an NSX. Maybe they should call it the Legend? More seriously, maybe ASC ("Acura Sports Car" instead of advanced concept, etc) or ASX or GTX?

 

[WingZ]

Not quite a sell out and I would prefer a real "NA3" NSX that was a further evolution of the NA1 and NA2. I would imagine my dream NA3 being an evolution of the NA2 with the vented hood from the NA2 NSX Type-R with CF hood, integrated CF spoiler (with the body lines lined up to it), MR with a 9000rpm V10, fixed bi-xenons if not LED front headlights, S2000'esque LED, navi and SH-AWD tails sounds oh so much better. Scrape off all the dead weight for the Type-R, of course but don't make the only option for NA the heaviest.

But this new thing could still be a great car. They just shouldn't call it in an NSX. Maybe they should call it the Legend? More seriously, maybe ASC ("Acura Sports Car" instead of advanced concept, etc) or ASX or GTX?

Man you are so right! People should totally ignore it and buy the um ..uh R8 instead. Yes just bypass this car completely.

 

[BD]

Hey Silver does this light any fires

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/B0OTEZDAb9c&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/B0OTEZDAb9c&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/vSRbpNdCTUg&hl=en"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/vSRbpNdCTUg&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Which one sounds better? The new Honda absolutely!!!

 

[WingZ]

No Vance the Toyota sounds better and people here should buy either the LF-A , GT-R or the R8.

Come on you guys know from previous experience that you don't want this car as it will be an utter disappointment! I mean it's front engine you guys only want MR right!

So I propose that none of you place deposits or preorders! Stick to your guns and let Honda know that you've been wronged! And don't let magazine articles or glossy pics persuade you! Just let the cars come in and sit on the lots for months.

Guys like Vancehu and myself will sacrifice and shame ourselves by buying them ...but only to help you guys. See Honda will have to sell a few examples or they'll just give up on the sportscar market entirely. Then after they see that you guys aren't buying them and they had to sell at invoice they'll see the error of their ways and make a MR in a couple of years. You guys will have held the line and gotten what you really wanted from Honda.

Your friend WingZ:biggrin:

 

[Jetpilot3]

No Vance the Toyota sounds better and people here should buy either the LF-A , GT-R or the R8.

Come on you guys know from previous experience that you don't want this car as it will be an utter disappointment! I mean it's front engine you guys only want MR right!

So I propose that none of you place deposits or preorders! Stick to your guns and let Honda know that you've been wronged! And don't let magazine articles or glossy pics persuade you! Just let the cars come in and sit on the lots for months.

Guys like Vancehu and myself will sacrifice and shame ourselves by buying them ...but only to help you guys. See Honda will have to sell a few examples or they'll just give up on the sportscar market entirely. Then after they see that you guys aren't buying them and they had to sell at invoice they'll see the error of their ways and make a MR in a couple of years. You guys will have held the line and gotten what you really wanted from Honda.

Your friend WingZ:biggrin:

And/Or...

Once the "NA3" NSX is out and no one is buying it then I guess the guys who did buy it and are thinking of selling will have to put up with the abuse all of the MR people will give regarding how its depreciating or its value is falling relative to the NA1 and NA2 markets...just because its front engined...haha.

I have to agree with Vance and Wingz this car will sell and I already predict it will kill the NA1 and NA2 sales by a wide margin especially if it beats the GTR.

But I'll never sell my Imola. I'd have both maybe...

 

[BD]

No Vance the Toyota sounds better and people here should buy either the LF-A , GT-R or the R8.

Come on you guys know from previous experience that you don't want this car as it will be an utter disappointment! I mean it's front engine you guys only want MR right!

So I propose that none of you place deposits or preorders! Stick to your guns and let Honda know that you've been wronged! And don't let magazine articles or glossy pics persuade you! Just let the cars come in and sit on the lots for months.

Guys like Vancehu and myself will sacrifice and shame ourselves by buying them ...but only to help you guys. See Honda will have to sell a few examples or they'll just give up on the sportscar market entirely. Then after they see that you guys aren't buying them and they had to sell at invoice they'll see the error of their ways and make a MR in a couple of years. You guys will have held the line and gotten what you really wanted from Honda.

Your friend WingZ:biggrin:

Perry, I hear ya. When we get our "NSX" replacement, we should stay quiet and keep our cars in the garage, and only drive it after midnight. You know people will make fun of us because of 600plus HP Corvette ZR1, which will have extra 50 or so more HP and 30k cheaper.

18 years after we live in shame, maybe some 18 year old will take it off our hand for the price of a new Civic....:biggrin:

 

[WingZ]

perry, i hear ya. When we get our "nsx" replacement, we should stay quiet and keep our cars in the garage, and only drive it after midnight. You know people will make fun of us because of 600plus hp corvette zr1, which will have extra 50 or so more hp and 30k cheaper.

18 years after we live in shame, maybe some 18 year old will take it off our hand for the price of a new civic....:biggrin:

roflmao

 

[Synthesis]

Don't kid your self, I'll take a 599 over a 430 any day!!!

is you on the pipe??? :tongue:

 

[WingZ]

is you on the pipe??? :tongue:

Dude I'm on the same pipe because the 599 is all that and a bag of chip ...with a slurpee:biggrin:

 

[Synthesis]

599 is an absolutely amazing car, but the 430 is way WAY nicer looking :tongue:

white 430 spider with black interior = drop dead gorgeous
599 = pretty (maybe even pretty darn) good looking

the proportions of mid engine cars look so much better and more exotic.....

 

[WingZ]

599 is an absolutely amazing car, but the 430 is way WAY nicer looking :tongue:

white 430 spider with black interior = drop dead gorgeous
599 = pretty (maybe even pretty darn) good looking

the proportions of mid engine cars look so much better and more exotic.....

Makes you happy:wink:

 

[s14_tat]

I remember when a local Acura dealer campained an NSX in Grand Am. It was classed against the Cobras, Vettes and the like. It did okay, not great, because it would get killed on the straights. It was also a tough car to run because it was aluminum. The class rules were tougher on the NSX than any other car in the field, or so they said. So they stopped running it.

I agree that put the right person in any car and that person will handily beat almost anyone on this board, including myself, in my NSX. I also know that Im, myself, an advanced intermediate driver in my STREET CAR NSX, getting within 3% of Pro Drivers in full blown Grand Am race cars. The NSX has to be a whole lot better than what you're saying if I am able to do that.

i think that youre getting incorrect information from your friend. At best, I believe it us incomplete information. I know that NSXs were not campaigned a lot, but my understanding is that that had zero to do with its performace and potential, and everything to do with the restrictions placed upon it versus the competition, availability of parts and the costs associated with running it versus other less restrictive cars. Plus, you bang up an NSX and youre stuck trying to fix an aluminum car. You can bang out a Camaro to better than factory spec with a few hammers.

I agree 30000%, also to Doc C i respect your track experience immensely but to honestly say that if you were put in a Stock V6 camaro, or a Z28 or a SS or heck even a stock C5 that you can lap a better time than a stock NA2 seems to be absurd.

Why not compare apples to apples here? Ignore your instructors words for a moment and lets either put him in all the same cars and see which one will lap faster stock for stock or even better yet, you drive all those cars and see which cars are at the upper end of the automotive food chain.

I guess all those other comparison test where the stock NSX beats the stock C5 in a road course was all done by Computer Graphics and all the time attack records that Factor X's NSX shattered can all be beaten by a V6 camaro.

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/magazines/car9712.htm

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/magazines/car9612.htm

Sorry to get off subject here, I do think the NSX is getting out dated as well and I will admit a EVO or a STi would run rings around it, and even a stock Supra TT would beat it, but no way would any camaro stock for stock beat it under the same conditions with the same driver.


Now back on topic: I seems that the public opinion about this car has changed considerably. What happend to "Honda: power of nightmares" when we first saw that abomination? Honda has gotten so far out of touch with its customers that can't tell its head from its ass. I have no problems with this car, but just don't call it a NSX. The the name Prelude seems to suit this car better than the NSX. I really hope Honda loses a ton of money on this car if they were to call it the NSX. It only took them 3 years to get from not "being able to agree on the right direction with the design" to a full blown wrong direction. Its okay, Honda will have the Nissan GTR, the ZR1, and the LF-A eatting its lunch, with only the most hardcore Honda loyalist buying this car.

 

[Nukem]

I agree 30000%, also to Doc C i respect your track experience immensely but to honestly say that if you were put in a Stock V6 camaro, or a Z28 or a SS or heck even a stock C5 that you can lap a better time than a stock NA2 seems to be absurd.

Why not compare apples to apples here? Ignore your instructors words for a moment and lets either put him in all the same cars and see which one will lap faster stock for stock or even better yet, you drive all those cars and see which cars are at the upper end of the automotive food chain.

I guess all those other comparison test where the stock NSX beats the stock C5 in a road course was all done by Computer Graphics and all the time attack records that Factor X's NSX shattered can all be beaten by a V6 camaro.

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/magazines/car9712.htm

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/magazines/car9612.htm

Sorry to get off subject here, I do think the NSX is getting out dated as well and I will admit a EVO or a STi would run rings around it, and even a stock Supra TT would beat it, but no way would any camaro stock for stock beat it under the same conditions with the same driver.


Now back on topic: I seems that the public opinion about this car has changed considerably. What happend to "Honda: power of nightmares" when we first saw that abomination? Honda has gotten so far out of touch with its customers that can't tell its head from its ass. I have no problems with this car, but just don't call it a NSX. The the name Prelude seems to suit this car better than the NSX. I really hope Honda loses a ton of money on this car if they were to call it the NSX. It only took them 3 years to get from not "being able to agree on the right direction with the design" to a full blown wrong direction. Its okay, Honda will have the Nissan GTR, the ZR1, and the LF-A eatting its lunch, with only the most hardcore Honda loyalist buying this car.

Yeah you guys can call me a Magazine racer, but I have to agree with you, on the handling and running a road course. I think that some people don't give the NSX enough credit. A camaro's against an NSX on a Road Course...no I C5, closer race I think. I remember reading an article long ago when I was in High School still dreaming of the day I would own my very own NSX(still dreaming today) about 3 cars a c5 Vette, Acura NSX, and I think a P-car. They had 3 drivers from different backgrounds drive each car on the street, a cross country, and a road course(Laguna Seca) on the Road Course it was a toss up between the drivers on the X and the C5 as far as times were concerned. but all three drivers said they felt more comfortable at high speeds and cornering in the X. This isn't best motoring magazine either. It was something like Road and Track. granted the X didn't keep up with the performance of cars today as well as everyone hoped. Maybe a Type R version here in the states with slightly more power would have helped that, I don't know, But an NSX still gives a lot of cars with more power a good run for their money. But then again I don't own an X yet. never driven one, just riden around the track(Road Atlanta) in a couple, one SC, and one NA, and I enjoyed every minute of each ride. Both rides we were passing a lot of cars(Could be driver skills) minus the purpose built race cars. I disagree with the NSX lacking performance against a C5 Vette, or a Camaro.

 

[WingZ]

Sorry to get off subject here, I do think the NSX is getting out dated as well and I will admit a EVO or a STi would run rings around it, and even a stock Supra TT would beat it, but no way would any camaro stock for stock beat it under the same conditions with the same driver.


Now back on topic: I seems that the public opinion about this car has changed considerably. What happend to "Honda: power of nightmares" when we first saw that abomination? Honda has gotten so far out of touch with its customers that can't tell its head from its ass. I have no problems with this car, but just don't call it a NSX. The the name Prelude seems to suit this car better than the NSX. I really hope Honda loses a ton of money on this car if they were to call it the NSX. It only took them 3 years to get from not "being able to agree on the right direction with the design" to a full blown wrong direction. Its okay, Honda will have the Nissan GTR, the ZR1, and the LF-A eatting its lunch, with only the most hardcore Honda loyalist buying this car.

What a minute C5 can't beat NSX but STi or EVO or stock Supra TT can with same driver run rings around it. Are you referring to NA1 because that's just not going to happen with NA2 NSX none of those cars turn in better numbers than the NA2.

How is Honda out of touch with it's customers? Big group of guys who the majority bought the car used are not Honda customers. NSX didn't sell well so they're trying something different. They're trying something with more HP that most people kept complaining about and now it's engine position. Even if it was mid engine and cost over $150K how many here would/could buy it.

Honda is just targeting a different customer that's all.

 

[Doc C]

I agree 30000%, also to Doc C i respect your track experience immensely but to honestly say that if you were put in a Stock V6 camaro, or a Z28 or a SS or heck even a stock C5 that you can lap a better time than a stock NA2 seems to be absurd.

Why not compare apples to apples here? Ignore your instructors words for a moment and lets either put him in all the same cars and see which one will lap faster stock for stock or even better yet, you drive all those cars and see which cars are at the upper end of the automotive food chain.

I guess all those other comparison test where the stock NSX beats the stock C5 in a road course was all done by Computer Graphics and all the time attack records that Factor X's NSX shattered can all be beaten by a V6 camaro.

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/magazines/car9712.htm

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Media/magazines/car9612.htm

Sorry to get off subject here, I do think the NSX is getting out dated as well and I will admit a EVO or a STi would run rings around it, and even a stock Supra TT would beat it, but no way would any camaro stock for stock beat it under the same conditions with the same driver.


Now back on topic: I seems that the public opinion about this car has changed considerably. What happend to "Honda: power of nightmares" when we first saw that abomination? Honda has gotten so far out of touch with its customers that can't tell its head from its ass. I have no problems with this car, but just don't call it a NSX. The the name Prelude seems to suit this car better than the NSX. I really hope Honda loses a ton of money on this car if they were to call it the NSX. It only took them 3 years to get from not "being able to agree on the right direction with the design" to a full blown wrong direction. Its okay, Honda will have the Nissan GTR, the ZR1, and the LF-A eatting its lunch, with only the most hardcore Honda loyalist buying this car.

Where I was coming from on my statements was that the professional driver drove my NSX with brand new Kumho 710s around the track. Then drove his V-8 Camaro around the same track immediately after. His Camaro had cord showing on its tires. His Camaro is race prepared only in the sense that it has a cage installed and has only the modifications that the SCCA will allow. He was consistently 2-3 seconds faster in the Camaro. The reason we did that, was to baseline the performance of the cars with a professional, so then I could try to get the NSX around the track in a similar time. The 2003 Corvette Z-06 race car he has was not available, but his times in it are much faster than the Camaro. His statement was that the V-6 Camaro would be competitive with a favorable driver matchup and on a track without a very long straightaway. I have no doubt that I could kick a V-6 Camaro's ass on any course in the NSX, but the V-6 Camaro has been a very successful car in SCCA racing. When I raced him head to head in the V-8 Camaro, the Camaro would pull the NSX just barely on the straights. The EVOs and STis will easily kick it on a track.

The ugly ass thing Acura is building needs to be the RL coupe, the CL, or the resurrection of the Legend name, and be the Legend coupe. NOT NSX!!

 

[KooLaid]

Doc C ain't no fool, tell you guys that much.

 

[s14_tat]

Where I was coming from on my statements was that the professional driver drove my NSX with brand new Kumho 710s around the track. Then drove his V-8 Camaro around the same track immediately after. His Camaro had cord showing on its tires. His Camaro is race prepared only in the sense that it has a cage installed and has only the modifications that the SCCA will allow. He was consistently 2-3 seconds faster in the Camaro. The reason we did that, was to baseline the performance of the cars with a professional, so then I could try to get the NSX around the track in a similar time. The 2003 Corvette Z-06 race car he has was not available, but his times in it are much faster than the Camaro. His statement was that the V-6 Camaro would be competitive with a favorable driver matchup and on a track without a very long straightaway. I have no doubt that I could kick a V-6 Camaro's ass on any course in the NSX, but the V-6 Camaro has been a very successful car in SCCA racing. When I raced him head to head in the V-8 Camaro, the Camaro would pull the NSX just barely on the straights. The EVOs and STis will easily kick it on a track.

The ugly ass thing Acura is building needs to be the RL coupe, the CL, or the resurrection of the Legend name, and be the Legend coupe. NOT NSX!!

definitely understandable from that point, however I must also point out that he has been racing the F body for many years and knows that chassis like the back of his hand. If he has been racing a NSX for as many years, I'm sure it could've went the other way. Of course of if the road was ribbon smooth, then the inherit weakness of a live axle rear suspension wouldn't be as visible vs a road with actual bumps in it. Also you said that the ls1 was pulling on your na2 slightly on the straights, but in actuality it was probably because he exited the corner slightly faster than you did. i'm sure stock na2 can slowly walk a stock f body in a straight since we are a drivers race in a straight line with a c5 vette.

also back on topic, you may think that honda is marketing towards a different audience, but the thing was back in 91 the NSX was no lacking in power. It has just a hair bit less power than the u.s. and italian competitors. If the NSX came with 500 hp now, it would be back to where it started 17 years ago. It would still get out muscled by a F430 scuderia, the gallardo, the LP 560, the ZR1, the V-spec, and etc 500 is not as uncommon as you think by todays standards.