NEW!! BC Racing Type ZR Triple-Adjustable Coilovers Prototype Set

[NSX1145]

Hello Prime,

I am pleased to present the first set of NSX BC Racing Type ZR Coilovers in testing @ SCW Performance!

We have just finished installing these on our shop NSX. These look phenomenal in every way and are very well designed. Before anyone jumps the gun and asks "how much?", we don't have pricing yet.
I will announce pricing once these are marked for production. I just wanted to inform you that a new product is in the works, and we will be testing these over the next few weeks providing feedback for BC, as well, these will be on display at SEMA Show for those of you who will be attending.

Coilover Specs - 14K Spring Rate, 30-Way Adjustable Dampening, 16-Way Adjustable High-Speed Compression, 12-Way Adjustable Low-Speed Compression - External mount reservoirs - Full billet upper mount and shock body, hardware brackets etc.

I can tell you just from the initial adjustments here in the shop, the dampening adjustment is off the chain. Its super sensitive with even the slightest adjustment. You can definitely feel the difference at different settings.

Tomorrow, we road test!

Out of the box height, with plenty more room to go lower if you so desire. I prefer functional street-usability so I don't think I'll go much lower than where I'm at already. We'll see. It's about a 1-finger gap.

 

[303WIN]

It looks top notch , can't wait for the full review and price ;-)

 

[TURBO2GO]

Where are the low and high speed compression adjustments? I only see one knob.

 

[TrustJDM]

Nice dampers. The High & Low speed adjustments seem to be on the external reservoir. Turbo, notice there are two knobs on top of the external. Please let us know how well they work.

 

[asylum]

Very nice. I hope they come in the KW V3 / Clubsport price range.

 

[NSX1145]

Well, good news. After my test driving this morning I can say I am definitely impressed. The car is very nice to drive, and my settings are still on the softer side. It's not nearly as harsh as I thought it might be given the spring rates, the car is very easy to predict and pretty much eliminates a majority of the body roll during hard cornering. On my current setting it feels very comparable to the Bc BR types, which are very popular with the Nsx community.

Turbo, there are 2 knobs on the external reservoir for the low speed / high speed compression, and 1 knob on the damper.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Yeah I noticed it's a knob on top of another knob.

 

[davidf]

Way to nice looking to hide behind the wheels.

 

[Honcho]

This is great. BC also can rebuild/customize your BR Type to this or ER, RM, etc. When my BR's finally die, I'm sending them in to be upgraded to this. Should solve the "damper fatigue" I get near the end of the day on a HPDE session.

 

[Honcho]

Also, this should probably be moved to the Suspension forum.

 

[jones83]

Where are the shock dynos of the suspension? Did they provide you with any? That is one of the fundamental ways to judge a coilover setup.

 

[NSX1145]

No I don't have any dyno paperwork as this set doesn't even have an official part number yet remember this is a prototype set

 

[jones83]

I don't mean to start anything, but not having a part number shouldn't matter. BC should have the dyno sheet, and it should have come from the R&D that is done on the prototype.

The part looks like it was machined well.

 

[Honcho]

Any chance you could have them add 10 mm to the front mount cups? Kaz discovered the front shocks on the BR Type cannot get the front suspension to the OEM height. The max height on the BC is about the same as the NA1 NSX-R, which isn't bad, but the system should be adjustable to stock.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Where are the shock dynos of the suspension? Did they provide you with any? That is one of the fundamental ways to judge a coilover setup.

Not every coil manufacturer has an expensive shock dyno, nor do they actually test on an actual car.

 

[jones83]

Not every coil manufacturer has an expensive shock dyno, nor do they actually test on an actual car.

I am not talking about every manufacturer as that is an easy way to get off topic. I am talking about BC Racing currently, and their lack of a dyno sheet. I am trying to be fair and at least ask for a dyno sheet. It is not hard to get a set of shocks dyno tested. Your statement comes off like you are defending BC Racing for not having a dyno sheet for each of the coilovers when it should not be acceptable to anyone that actually wants to use those coilovers to race with. I won't even start with dyno sheet inconsistencies because there isn't one to speak about.

BC Racing has a shock dyno for their other shock for the NSX. You can also get dyno sheets for other cars as well if you ask for it. I don't know if BC Racing has their own dyno(probably not as they are a lower grade Taiwan company) or if they rent one for R&D, but at least they have attempted to get some of their shocks in the past dyno tested. Even though their test are usually scarily inconsistent.

What you just said is the equivalent of getting a head ported and then not wanting a flow chart after to read/understand the new limits of the head. If a company that makes shocks can not supply a shock dyno and they have never tested on the car it is supposed to be installed on then that company is obviously not doing any respectable R&D on their product. You can make your own judgment call on whether or not you feel that it is worth buying at that point.


Bottom line: You should have a dyno of each damper.

 

[Honcho]

I am not talking about every manufacturer as that is an easy way to get off topic. I am talking about BC Racing currently, and their lack of a dyno sheet. I am trying to be fair and at least ask for a dyno sheet. It is not hard to get a set of shocks dyno tested. Your statement comes off like you are defending BC Racing for not having a dyno sheet for each of the coilovers when it should not be acceptable to anyone that actually wants to use those coilovers to race with. I won't even start with dyno sheet inconsistencies because there isn't one to speak about.

BC Racing has a shock dyno for their other shock for the NSX. You can also get dyno sheets for other cars as well if you ask for it. I don't know if BC Racing has their own dyno(probably not as they are a lower grade Taiwan company) or if they rent one for R&D, but at least they have attempted to get some of their shocks in the past dyno tested. Even though their test are usually scarily inconsistent.

What you just said is the equivalent of getting a head ported and then not wanting a flow chart after to read/understand the new limits of the head. If a company that makes shocks can not supply a shock dyno and they have never tested on the car it is supposed to be installed on then that company is obviously not doing any respectable R&D on their product. You can make your own judgment call on whether or not you feel that it is worth buying at that point.


Bottom line: You should have a dyno of each damper.

Couple things. First, these are prototypes. When BC releases the product to market and makes them available to consumers for purchase, your comment regarding dyno sheet availability would have more merit. Though, as I understand it, not many shock manufacturers are willing to post their dynos publicly. This makes sense because much of the tuning (and attendant R&D dollars) can be deciphered from the dyno. Indeed, I went to JRZ's website and the NSX shock dyno is nowhere to be found. Same at Moton and KW. Now I am sure if you laid down your hard earned dollars and purchased their product, they would send you a dyno report. Or, if you are a race team and are looking at suspension options, they likely would too. BC sent me a dyno (at my request) after I purchased their Type BR coilover kits, which have been driven and tracked on my NSX in a variety of conditions to a high level of success.

Second, BC does in fact have their own factory dyno. In fact, every single damper that leaves the factory is dynoed and matched in sets to ensure damper consistency between wheels. The dyno test results are hand-recorded on the damper. Here is a picture of mine before I installed them:



My dampers were matched to within 1.5% of each other. Considering OEM tolerance is 13%, I was very satisfied with the quality control of this product. The Type BR is BC's entry-level damper, but it is built and tested to a high standard. Although I do not have access to this information, the Type ZR I am sure will have at least that level. I am not sure how you quantify "lower grade" in terms of quality, but BC also manufactures suspensions for the OEMs and I doubt they would use BC as a supplier if their product was suspect. Judging from my own experience, I have not found any problems with the quality or durability of the product. Here is a recent tech article from BC that explains their process and equipment in more detail:

http://www.bcracing-na.com/br-type-tech-spotlight/

A key takeaway is BC reverse-engineers and dyno tests the OEM suspension to develop the kit, and then tests it on the car for 6 months before release. I would imagine SCW's prototype ZR kit is somewhere in this 6 month testing process and BC is looking for feedback. Would be nice if we could find a track NSX to test for them...

Finally, can we get this thread moved to the suspension forum already?

 

[jones83]

Couple things. First, these are prototypes. When BC releases the product to market and makes them available to consumers for purchase, your comment regarding dyno sheet availability would have more merit. Though, as I understand it, not many shock manufacturers are willing to post their dynos publicly. This makes sense because much of the tuning (and attendant R&D dollars) can be deciphered from the dyno. Indeed, I went to JRZ's website and the NSX shock dyno is nowhere to be found. Same at Moton and KW. Now I am sure if you laid down your hard earned dollars and purchased their product, they would send you a dyno report. Or, if you are a race team and are looking at suspension options, they likely would too. BC sent me a dyno (at my request) after I purchased their Type BR coilover kits, which have been driven and tracked on my NSX in a variety of conditions to a high level of success.

Second, BC does in fact have their own factory dyno. In fact, every single damper that leaves the factory is dynoed and matched in sets to ensure damper consistency between wheels. The dyno test results are hand-recorded on the damper. Here is a picture of mine before I installed them:

My dampers were matched to within 1.5% of each other. Considering OEM tolerance is 13%, I was very satisfied with the quality control of this product. The Type BR is BC's entry-level damper, but it is built and tested to a high standard. Although I do not have access to this information, the Type ZR I am sure will have at least that level. I am not sure how you quantify "lower grade" in terms of quality, but BC also manufactures suspensions for the OEMs and I doubt they would use BC as a supplier if their product was suspect. Judging from my own experience, I have not found any problems with the quality or durability of the product. Here is a recent tech article from BC that explains their process and equipment in more detail:

http://www.bcracing-na.com/br-type-tech-spotlight/

A key takeaway is BC reverse-engineers and dyno tests the OEM suspension to develop the kit, and then tests it on the car for 6 months before release. I would imagine SCW's prototype ZR kit is somewhere in this 6 month testing process and BC is looking for feedback. Would be nice if we could find a track NSX to test for them...

Finally, can we get this thread moved to the suspension forum already?

Moton will give you dyno sheets on your suspension if you ask. Penske will as well. MCS will also if I remember correctly. KW is SUPER stingy with it and does not want to give out any info on their dampers even to owners. JRZ I am unaware if they will or not, but I know they test their shocks for sure as I have seen them test other shocks at their facility. Ohlins will also. Just to make it fair Fortune Auto will as well. Same price range and some say better for the money.

They are a lower grade due to the limitation on their rebound and damping ranges. I read your review on the coilovers and everyone is different. I have them as well and they are honestly just OK coilovers. They can't match OEM ride quality and they are not on the next tier(Tier 3) of better performing coilovers. Also they are not "local" and that matters to me as well.

OEMs are dictated by the bean counters first. No one with a substantial budget is choosing BC. That statement, like it is often used, is invalid. No personal attack towards you but I see that statement too often. You should dyno your coilovers some time and see how close you really are to the numbers on the tube..........

 

[RYU]

I think providing the dyno sheets on dampers have a diluted impact to the community simply because many folks don't know what they're looking at. I read on forums and facebook all the time where the consumers are satisfied that the manufacturer of (insert name here) because they "came clean" and provided a dyno yet they don't know if the dyno is telling a good story or a bad one. It's not like looking at an engine dyno plot with RPM vs. Torque/wHP.

Here's a decent discussion on the topic. A cheaper coilover vs. your typical Moton/JRZ/Penske damper. A low end manufacturer comes out basically tells people that a 40 click adjustment range is all marketing BS. It's a good read. Basically, the old adage is true. You get what you pay for.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34685

To get you started.. here is a shock dyno from a cheap manufacturer. Notice the area under the 2"/sec zone.

Now take a look at your typical JRZ/Moton shock

- - - Updated - - -

I'd be super curious to see the dyno graph on the BCs. Please post! Thanks man

Couple things. First, these are prototypes. When BC releases the product to market and makes them available to consumers for purchase, your comment regarding dyno sheet availability would have more merit. Though, as I understand it, not many shock manufacturers are willing to post their dynos publicly. This makes sense because much of the tuning (and attendant R&D dollars) can be deciphered from the dyno. Indeed, I went to JRZ's website and the NSX shock dyno is nowhere to be found. Same at Moton and KW. Now I am sure if you laid down your hard earned dollars and purchased their product, they would send you a dyno report. Or, if you are a race team and are looking at suspension options, they likely would too. BC sent me a dyno (at my request) after I purchased their Type BR coilover kits, which have been driven and tracked on my NSX in a variety of conditions to a high level of success.

Second, BC does in fact have their own factory dyno. In fact, every single damper that leaves the factory is dynoed and matched in sets to ensure damper consistency between wheels. The dyno test results are hand-recorded on the damper. Here is a picture of mine before I installed them:

View attachment 117970

My dampers were matched to within 1.5% of each other. Considering OEM tolerance is 13%, I was very satisfied with the quality control of this product. The Type BR is BC's entry-level damper, but it is built and tested to a high standard. Although I do not have access to this information, the Type ZR I am sure will have at least that level. I am not sure how you quantify "lower grade" in terms of quality, but BC also manufactures suspensions for the OEMs and I doubt they would use BC as a supplier if their product was suspect. Judging from my own experience, I have not found any problems with the quality or durability of the product. Here is a recent tech article from BC that explains their process and equipment in more detail:

http://www.bcracing-na.com/br-type-tech-spotlight/

A key takeaway is BC reverse-engineers and dyno tests the OEM suspension to develop the kit, and then tests it on the car for 6 months before release. I would imagine SCW's prototype ZR kit is somewhere in this 6 month testing process and BC is looking for feedback. Would be nice if we could find a track NSX to test for them...

Finally, can we get this thread moved to the suspension forum already?

- - - Updated - - -

Here is an example of why a 30 or 40 or 100 way adjustable shock doesn't mean anything.

Take a look at how little range the last half of the clicks give you. It's like nothing...

 

[NSX1145]

I have not inquired about a Dyno, and since these are in the testing phase, it may not be information they wish to give out at this point in time.

 

[jones83]

NSX145,

I don't mean for this to turn into a bashing campaign against BC Racing. Just wanted to show awareness on the value of a shock dyno. It should be something you get, and not something that you just assume will not be given to you, in general. One thing you get with the big names is that their dyno sheets are more consistent with each other vs the "cheaper" brands. People that pay a lot of money for custom dampers know what they are looking at. People that pay for very cheap dampers don't care what they are looking at. It is that 3rd tier or first step above entry level coilovers that usually fall in the $2700-3800 range should be aware of what they are getting. You should spend your hard earned money more wisely than just on whether or not Brand X is used by others. Are they close to you? What is their revalving turn around? Do they have customer service issues? Do you need monotube? Will they perform like you expect for the price you have paid?

In racing, like in life, you spend less by learning more.

 

[TURBO2GO]

I'll add one thing, low and high speed adjustments almost always affect each other unliess it is a really well-built damper. You change high speed and the low speed changes. You change the low and the high changes, an it becomes impossible to get the system to where you want. Even in JRZ's own line I was told that various models will have better behavior as far as this is concerned. Also, triple adjustability to me means that you REALLY know what you are doing, and it becomes necessary at a high level of motorsport where cost is not much of an object. When I see all this adjustment on a relatively inexpensive damper it makes me wonder who the target customer is, and if it isn't being done more for marketing reasons.

 

[NSX1145]

NSX145,

I don't mean for this to turn into a bashing campaign against BC Racing. Just wanted to show awareness on the value of a shock dyno. It should be something you get, and not something that you just assume will not be given to you, in general. One thing you get with the big names is that their dyno sheets are more consistent with each other vs the "cheaper" brands. People that pay a lot of money for custom dampers know what they are looking at. People that pay for very cheap dampers don't care what they are looking at. It is that 3rd tier or first step above entry level coilovers that usually fall in the $2700-3800 range should be aware of what they are getting. You should spend your hard earned money more wisely than just on whether or not Brand X is used by others. Are they close to you? What is their revalving turn around? Do they have customer service issues? Do you need monotube? Will they perform like you expect for the price you have paid?

In racing, like in life, you spend less by learning more.

As I don't work for BC Racing, I am just a customer, you might inquire with them directly if you are interested in getting answers for all of your questions. If they give me any additional information to post, I'll gladly do so.

 

[RYU]

This shouldn't be intended as a bashing campaign. Among the 3rd tier coilovers BC Racing and Fortune racing seem to be the leaders of that pack. I think education is empowering so it's important for all NSX owners to know what their buying and why certain items are done for marketing purposes yet others have true performance impact.

Hopefully some folks who are not in the know have taken 5 mins to read my link posted above.

I've probably spent close to $10-12k on my suspension after trying out 4 different setups over the years. Excluding my time in labor cost and deducting salvage value for previous suspension assemblies I'm at about $8k into my setup. My current setup cost me about $4300 so that's a loss of $3700 over the course of my 10yrs of ownership. I could have saved that money if I got myself educated in the first place.

One could argue... I didn't know what I wanted at that point and that's a fair argument. Afterall, I decided I don't need a set of Motons, Penskes, or the Race JRZs for $14k because I educated myself on what incremental value those expensive shocks give me vs. the cost. I just wish I saved myself $3700 to begin with.

This goes the same for guys who are considering BCs or (insert other brands here). They might be ok with mediocre performance for their intended use of the vehicle.

 

[ASMALLZ76]

easy jones83

you are going in a little to hard

we all like the facts but how you are going about it is not the way

it sounds like you have a personal issue with BC coilovers

just think about it is all im saying