NA mods and results?

As a brief summary, the 3.0L C30A and 3.2L C32B are well-designed and generally flow pretty well from the factory. Honda spent a lot of time and money getting those engines to operate with maximum efficiency. That doesn't mean there aren't areas for improvement, but from a general standpoint it is difficult to get big NA gains from the NSX.

Exhaust

If you have a 3.0L NSX, then the biggest flaw is the exhaust system. The OEM manifolds are highly restrictive and tube headers can free up to about 20 whp. A good free-flowing exhaust like the Comptech or Taitec GTLW can net another 5-10 whp. NA1 NSXs with these exhaust mods typically dyno between 250 and 270 whp depending on the car and dyno. A 3.2L NSX does not benefit as much from these mods because it already comes with headers from the factory. However, slight gains may still be found from full-length headers and a good exhaust. A NA2 NSX with full headers and exhaust typically dynos between 270 and 290 whp depending on the car and dyno. The highest I've ever seen is Vance's NA2 (now the star of the FnF movies), which clocked in at about 305 whp.

Intake

This is an interesting area for NA mods. Early on, lots of vendors were releasing CAIs and snorkel mods that claimed to improve power. In recent years they seem to have backed off those claims. The OEM intake system is well designed and flows enough air for most stock applications. Based on some of my recent conversations, intake mods will do little to nothing for a 3.0L NSX. There may be a little more benefit for the 3.2L, since it displaces more air.

Engine Internals

If you don't go FI, then the only other place to find power is engine internals (pistons, cams, valves, ports, etc.) The benefit is questionable, however. In the late 90's and earlly 2000's, Comptech sold an engine package called the "IEM". The complete package gave you ported and polished heads with valve work, slight decking to bump compression, hot cams, etc. Mark Johnson, owner of Dali Racing, got the complete package and reported that it netted only about 22 whp on the dyno. Not much considering the cost. Even a 1st gen Comptech supercharger will get you 60 or more for less money.

If I were you, I would talk to Chris at SOS. If you are worried about stroke and piston speed issues, you could consider keeping your stock stroke/crank and sleeving your block with bigger pistons. SOS sells sizes that will get you to 3.3 or 3.4L without changing your stroke. This is the sort of displacement bump that combined with intake and cam/head mods, will get you close to FI power.
 
tof... I am not an owner yet. Negotiating on a very low mile very stock red 91. Will talk to Chris about the ITB's. That's what I've been thinking about and would really like to hear what he's got. The big issue with NA motors is usually not the fueling, but the air. I thought about ITB's on the FD, but decided to design and build a much different plenum and runners to accomplish the same thing and it has worked very well. I am interested in getting as much hp as I can without going into the bottom end of the motor. So, ITB's or plenum and runners, cams, valves, headers, exhaust, but no bottom end work.

e.pie... Thanks much. Really love the sound.

honcho... Very interesting. Want to look at the intake side more. I was very surprised and pleased at the results I have had on both my M3 and Rx7 by building custom plenums and runners. I don't think you would get much from any sort of DC like snorkel intake or whatever. The issue is air volume. The plenum should be roughly equal in volume to the displacement of the engine and very clearly the stock setup doesn't have that. The plenum should displace about 3 liters as the nominal starting point with more adding to peak power and less pushing the midrange more. Anyway, I will talk to Chris and see what he suggests.

Gordon
 
Wondering why it states 2nd for the 295
 
Sorry didnt know dynos had gears

Lol, I have no clue if your being serious or not. Anyways that is a interesting RX7 you have there. Its like your going for that retro british roadster look, but its on a FD. Its definitely interesting and there is a hell of a lot of custom work that went into it.

Now regarding the NSX, it only takes a few parts to make the power your looking for NA but it will cost you a lot of money still to acquire those parts, and to tune.
 
do you know how much hp you were making before the mods?
just wondering how much they added.

Sorry, I'm not sure since I never had it dynoed before the I/H/E and no cats.
 
EAC...
Ryneen... Does your car pass emissions without the cats? Not that it can't be gotten around. I don't run cats on my Rx7 and my local guy has some way of getting it inspected successfully. I'm pretty close anyway and could probably retune to pass. I love the sound with straight pipes as well as the power gain. Would you have a link to the sound of your motor?


My car does not pass emissons without the cats. I put them back on every two years when I need to pass smog for the emissions test. I do not have a sound clip without cats unfortunately. However, I can say that the sound is insane and gets a lot of compliments at the track as one of the best sounding cars. It is VERY load at WOT. It is pretty loud in the car on the highway, but I don't mind since it sounds awesome.
 
As a brief summary, the 3.0L C30A and 3.2L C32B are well-designed and generally flow pretty well from the factory. Honda spent a lot of time and money getting those engines to operate with maximum efficiency. That doesn't mean there aren't areas for improvement, but from a general standpoint it is difficult to get big NA gains from the NSX.

Exhaust

If you have a 3.0L NSX, then the biggest flaw is the exhaust system. The OEM manifolds are highly restrictive and tube headers can free up to about 20 whp. A good free-flowing exhaust like the Comptech or Taitec GTLW can net another 5-10 whp. NA1 NSXs with these exhaust mods typically dyno between 250 and 270 whp depending on the car and dyno. A 3.2L NSX does not benefit as much from these mods because it already comes with headers from the factory. However, slight gains may still be found from full-length headers and a good exhaust. A NA2 NSX with full headers and exhaust typically dynos between 270 and 290 whp depending on the car and dyno. The highest I've ever seen is Vance's NA2 (now the star of the FnF movies), which clocked in at about 305 whp.

Intake

This is an interesting area for NA mods. Early on, lots of vendors were releasing CAIs and snorkel mods that claimed to improve power. In recent years they seem to have backed off those claims. The OEM intake system is well designed and flows enough air for most stock applications. Based on some of my recent conversations, intake mods will do little to nothing for a 3.0L NSX. There may be a little more benefit for the 3.2L, since it displaces more air.

Engine Internals

If you don't go FI, then the only other place to find power is engine internals (pistons, cams, valves, ports, etc.) The benefit is questionable, however. In the late 90's and earlly 2000's, Comptech sold an engine package called the "IEM". The complete package gave you ported and polished heads with valve work, slight decking to bump compression, hot cams, etc. Mark Johnson, owner of Dali Racing, got the complete package and reported that it netted only about 22 whp on the dyno. Not much considering the cost. Even a 1st gen Comptech supercharger will get you 60 or more for less money.

If I were you, I would talk to Chris at SOS. If you are worried about stroke and piston speed issues, you could consider keeping your stock stroke/crank and sleeving your block with bigger pistons. SOS sells sizes that will get you to 3.3 or 3.4L without changing your stroke. This is the sort of displacement bump that combined with intake and cam/head mods, will get you close to FI power.


Great post! Thank you for the info ! :)
 
Going to bump this to answer the question about engine mgmt.

If you check the FI section, you will see that folks who go above 400HP at the crank or so need engine management.

So what that means is once you go for the bigger pully on the CTSC whipple SC, or for any FI application that makes more HP than that, you are going to need engine management to make sure you are getting enough fuel.

Above a certain point, you will run out of injector capacity and need to go with larger injectors as well.

There are folks doing it, but there arent a lot of NSXs to begin with and most FI folks are running a small pully CTSC (what Im running). The good news is the folks who *do* go beyond this basic FI setup are *very* knowledgeable, active on the forums, and passionate so the info is definitely there.
 
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