Motion Control Suspension (MCS) for NSX

Congratulations Mark! I like the mods you've done - Very tasteful.

What general area are you in? I lived in Corvallis OR for a few years and really miss the Pacific NW. The moderate climate was nice, and there are a lot of great roads.
 
Mac Attack said:
Congratulations Mark! I like the mods you've done - Very tasteful.

What general area are you in? I lived in Corvallis OR for a few years and really miss the Pacific NW. The moderate climate was nice, and there are a lot of great roads.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the feedback. The car is a joy to own and drive. I am in Lake Oswego (suburb of Portland). Here are a couple of post-install pictures.

NSX1.jpg

NSX4.jpg

NSX3.jpg

NSX6.jpg
 
rake looks good...enjoy.
 
The stance looks really good.

The car overall looks really well put together. Congrats!


I'm guessing the little yellow arrow under each door is to point out the jack points?
 
JLCoolman said:
The stance looks really good. The car overall looks really well put together. Congrats!
I'm guessing the little yellow arrow under each door is to point out the jack points?
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Thanks, appreciate the feedback. I'm old (sort of) and the car is low. I needed a reference point. Really dorky, boy racer-ish, but it speeds getting the floor jack lined up.
 
Sockeye said:
. . . I believe i let a friend talk me into to high of spring rates . . . what are your thoughts
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What damper did you pair the springs with? What spring rates did you choose?
 
Resurrecting this thread, since my NSX-R will need to be replaced. [MENTION=32537]mwagner10702[/MENTION] any additional feedback on the MCS? If the Procar is not available, I'm considering working with them to build a setup for my S Zero.
 
Honcho said:
Resurrecting this thread, since my NSX-R will need to be replaced. @mwagner10702 any additional feedback on the MCS? If the Procar is not available, I'm considering working with them to build a setup for my S Zero.
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[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION] - I continue to be impressed with my MCS dampers. Depending upon the rebound and compression settings, I can have a reasonably comfortable ride (given my spring rates), but also get great track handling characteristics at the twist of two knobs.

I went with the MCS 2-way remote canisters (2WR), which I would highly recommend especially if you are going to track the car. Just looking for a great street / canyon ride then the 1-way non-remotes (1WNR) would be my choice. The bonus with the 1WNR is that they can be upgraded to 2WR units should you ever want to go that direction.

I also went with dry-break fittings on both front and back.

My latest suspension iteration is as follows:

MCS 2WR dampers
Swift springs 8k front (60mm 7") and 6k rear (60mm 7")
Eibach helper spring (60mm)
Honda 21.0 x 2.6mm front sway bar
Honda 17.5 x 2.3mm rear sway bar

If the spring rates and sway bar specs look familiar that's because they are what was used on the 1993 NSX-R. The spring rates are also the same as the Type-S Zero.

I had MCS valve the dampers so that at a certain setting on the rebound and compression I get the same damper rates as what Honda used on the Showa dampers on the 1993 NSX-R and the Type-S Zero.

These work out to:

[TABLE="width: 425"]
<tbody>[TR]
[TD]Model[/TD]
[TD]Front Rebound kg @ 0.3 m/s[/TD]
[TD]Front Compression kg @ 0.3 m/s[/TD]
[TD]Rear Rebound kg @ 0.3 m/s[/TD]
[TD]Rear Compression kg @ 0.3 m/s[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1993 NSX-R[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]319[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]226[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]315[/TD]
[TD] 222[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

So for my track settings I have pretty much what Honda specified for their 1993 NSX-R. For non-track days I dial back the rebound and compression and get a sporty ride that doesn't kill my back yet will let the car tackle any canyon run with ease. The car is fast and stable on the track. Handling is well balanced. You can run curbs all day long and not upset the car.

You can read more about the 2WR dampers here:

2 Way | Motion Control Suspension | Motorsport & Premium Dampers

If you are a true track rat and put track handling / ride over street handling / ride, I would probably up the spring rates some. Feedback from others who drove my car said it was "a little soft" for their tastes on the track, however they also are competitive part-time racers. I feel like the configuration I have is the Goldilocks of setups for all-around use.

I personally think this is a better setup than the original Type-S Zero suspension because of the damper adjustability. Bonus, I get ride height adjustability as well.

No doubt I would use MCS in the future. Probably the best damper out there by far. Need servicing? Their service center is in Georgia.

Hope this helps.

Mark
 
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mwagner10702 said:
So for my track settings I have pretty much what Honda specified for their 1993 NSX-R. For non-track days I dial back the rebound and compression and get a sporty ride that doesn't kill my back yet will let the car tackle any canyon run with ease. The car is fast and stable on the track. Handling is well balanced. You can run curbs all day long and not upset the car.

I personally think this is a better setup than the original Type-S Zero suspension because of the damper adjustability. Bonus, I get ride height adjustability as well.

No doubt I would use MCS in the future. Probably the best damper out there by far. Need servicing? Their service center is in Georgia.

Hope this helps.

Mark
Click to expand...

Mark-

Dang it, you are making this harder for me! :)

I had it all figured out. If Procar can't get another holy grail made, I was just going to buy the JRZ/Hyperco setup from SOS and call it a day. But, you just described my exact desired setup- If I can't have the OEM setup, then I want a coilover that drives like the S.Zero/NA1 R on the track and then turn down the stiffness for a OEM-like ride on the street. I even spec'd the same Swift springs as you (8kg F 6kg R), except 6" for the front and 8" for the rear. I was actually going to ask Chris at SOS if he could use these springs on the JRZ instead of the Hyperco. I guess what it really comes down to is the street feel, since both the MCS and JRZ are going to be more than adequate for track work. What draws me to the JRZ is one, I've driven the RS Two, and two, their piston/valve design seems to be the best for smoothing out those fast, harsh jolts you encounter on the street. The JRZ's feel as soft as the OEM suspension (and actually a little smoother IMHO), but when you crank up the damping, they are like rails on the track. I'm not a suspension expert, but I know that's really hard to achieve. Do you find your MCS to be similar?

I was looking at the 2WNR, since the published dyno curves are more digressive than the 1WNR, but honestly even the 1WNR would probably be fine if valved properly. After all, I am looking at the RS One. I like a single-adjustable shock because it removes complexity, but requires correct valving during the setup, which requires full NSX chassis data. I recall [MENTION=16531]stuntman[/MENTION] mentioned in another thread that a good suspension should be tuned (both in spring rates/lengths and valving) to your particular car and driving style- it sounds like you did that with MCS. Like at 30% stiff it rides like OEM, 50% like a Type S and then at 70% you've got a NSX-R. That's what Detlef did with the Procar/Bilstein setup... In my case, my car is around 2,700 lbs on 205/45/16 and 245/40/17 non-R comp tires (Conti ECS). From my NSX track experience, I've discovered that I like a touch of understeer in my setup. It's probably worth calling MCS to talk it through with them. Did you find them easy to work with?
 
My R suspension is also likely past its prime...I might have to emulate(plagiarize) your hard work....maybe we could do a 2 fer....
 
docjohn said:
My R suspension is also likely past its prime...I might have to emulate(plagiarize) your hard work....maybe we could do a 2 fer....
Click to expand...

Honestly, the whole reason I bought the R was not to have to do this dance for a few years. But, the NSX gods had other plans lol. I did some more research on MCS last night and the 1WNR with proper valving and spring setup is looking like the right answer. Apparently, MCS will spend a lot of time with you to figure out how to get it exactly right. I'm holding out hope for the Procar tho.
 
[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION] - I worked with my race shop, who have extensive experience with MCS on their own race cars, and also have a strong relationship with MCS. I am sure working directly with MCS would be straight forward.

It is important to give MCS as much information as possible regarding usage, expectations, etc so they can configure the right setup. These dampers are totally custom, so nothing is really outside the realm of reality.

JRZ is certainly another solid company. The "J" in JRZ is Jerome Van Gool (now the head guy at MCS). From what I know there is a bit of JRZ technology in the MCS product, but Jerome and company have taken the JRZ design to a whole different level. Not sure how the technology has changed in 11 years at JRZ since Jerome has left, however I suspect it is still a high-quality product.

MSC has a proprietary blow-off valve in their design that really helps tame the sharp bumps. In addition, their design has a broad operating range allowing you to start with a valving configuration at a certain spring rate, with the ability to up spring rates (a certain percentage) without needing an expensive re-valve. Again, this should be part of an overall conversation with MCS so they can valve your dampers for a range of spring rates.

I'd pass the 2WNR unless you have to have both compression and rebound adjustment but can't swing the price of the 2WR. There were some compromises made in the design of that damper to get both R and C in a single canister. For street applications it is probably more than fine, however for track applications you are better going with the 2WR for better performance.

The 1WNR would be a great choice if the 2WR is not budget friendly. A majority of adjustments are made on the high speed rebound side anyway. If you plan on spending a lot of time at the track (and depending on the track you most frequently drive at) having that adjustable high-speed compression may be beneficial. For street-only driving it is probably not needed.

Compared to the Eibach springs, the Swift springs are noticeably different. Swift uses some different metallurgy in their spring material, and it makes a noticeable difference in ride feel. I would not use anything but Swift going forward on any of my future suspension setups.

As you indicated, the ability to adjust the dampening forces for the track and get that "like on rails" performance, but yet have a compliant street ride is what really separates MCS from the rest of the high-end damper companies IMO.

For reference my car is 3010lbs (half tank full and my 200lb butt in the car), 215/40R17 (F) and 265/35R18 (R) Advan A052 tires.

Mark
 
[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION] - one additional note, when the dampers are made, the body length is sized to the length of the spring, it is not a one-size-fits-all design. If you start out with an 8" spring length and then want to change to a 7" spring (as an example) your damper bodies and rod shaft may need to be shortened. Where you want your ride height to end up will largely determine spring length.

This also applies in the reverse as well. If you choose a short spring length and then find you need to raise your ride height with a longer spring, you may need longer damper bodies and rod shafts.

I am sure the design of the MCS dampers do account for a small range of spring sizing but knowing what your final ride height will be will aid in getting the damper length sized correctly the first time.

Mark
 
mwagner10702 said:
[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION] - one additional note, when the dampers are made, the body length is sized to the length of the spring, it is not a one-size-fits-all design. If you start out with an 8" spring length and then want to change to a 7" spring (as an example) your damper bodies and rod shaft may need to be shortened. Where you want your ride height to end up will largely determine spring length.

This also applies in the reverse as well. If you choose a short spring length and then find you need to raise your ride height with a longer spring, you may need longer damper bodies and rod shafts.

I am sure the design of the MCS dampers do account for a small range of spring sizing but knowing what your final ride height will be will aid in getting the damper length sized correctly the first time.

Mark
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Appreciate the feedback. I've reached out to MCS and hopefully will have more to report. One more thing- would you mind if I broke out these MCS-related posts into a separate thread? It's kind of OT from the original post and I think it might help future owners for reference purposes.
 
MCS responded and said I should work with my local race shop/dealer or wit Mark's shop. So, I'm going there. :)
 
what spring rates?
 
asking if Paul is going to use same or custom?
 

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