I was thinking about the price of the next car recently. Since the new car is said to have a V-10, will there be a gas guzzler tax slapped onto the car? Some think the car should or will remain about the same price as it is now, if not a little more. But I can't imagine a $90k car having a gas guzzler taxed tacked on. I'm guessing the car will be quite a bit higher than that.
More discussion on possible price.
- Thread starter White92
- Start date
White92 said:
Don't M5s and M6s have the guzzler tax?
Also, isn't the tax imposed because the whole car line's average falls below what CAFE mandates? IOW, even if the NSX II is rated 12/18, the rest of Acura's models can pull up the average to lessen, if not eliminate, the tax altogether.
MoreRPMs said:
I know the M3 does:frown:
MoreRPMs said:
No, the gas guzzler tax is per model, so even though Honda's fleet overall gets very good mileage, a car with 12/18 would be taxed at $3,700.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml
Interesting to note that European brands collectively have over 80 models on sale in the US in 2006 that are hit with GG tax - the lion's share from BMW and M/B. Domestic brands (including Dodge/Chrysler) collectively have 7 and Japanese brands collectively have 0.
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/FEG2006.pdf
In addition to the GG tax on individual cars, car companies are also taxed based on the average fuel economy of their fleet. For example in 2003 BMW was fined a record $42m for the overall fuel economy of its fleet. A NSX with 12/18 MPG or worse won't hurt Honda's overall fleet average - or if it does, the effect will be very small.
There are only 3 cars on the market today (in the US) with 400 HP or higher that do not have GG tax - Corvette Couple, Corvette Convertible and Z06.
I think Honda is going to have a hard time (as it probably is counter culture and counter to their image) to sell a car that is classified as a GG. If GM can delivery 400HP and 505HP without GG tax, I would hope that Honda could do likewise.
- Joined
- 29 April 2004
- Messages
- 1,567
I have to imagine if we're looking at a 500 HP V10 - it's gonna creep near $150,000 - not to mention the price jacking the dealers will do for the first year.
The Ford GT is $150,000, 500HP, an adapted engine they already had, and it's domestic. A 500HP NSX would have to come close to this price, if not surpass it.
The Ford GT is $150,000, 500HP, an adapted engine they already had, and it's domestic. A 500HP NSX would have to come close to this price, if not surpass it.
I think it will be well over 100K. Hmmm...people are making more money...people are living in 1million dollars home...gasoline is increasing...everything is on the rise...therefore, I expect this V10 to be at least 120K price tag.
It's better that the new generation is in the 100K range so that it won't at every corner on the street like a TL or MDX. If the new NSX is like a M3 or Boxster, then i'll just buy something else.
It's better that the new generation is in the 100K range so that it won't at every corner on the street like a TL or MDX. If the new NSX is like a M3 or Boxster, then i'll just buy something else.
White92 said:
Honda is to gas guzzler,
as
Ferrari is to slow.:wink:
Since Ferrari is the target I'm sure it will be half the price of a F430...groan:frown:
White92 said:
Wondering the same thing, even at half the price of a F430 it is still an expensive car to your average Joe
Unless you are stating that it will still be expensive...sorry something got lost in translation, which one is it, too expensive or too cheap for you?
One starts to wonder....
80k Nissan GTR ....450hp
or
150k Honda NSX replacement ....500hp:frown:
80k Nissan GTR ....450hp
or
150k Honda NSX replacement ....500hp:frown:
liftcontrol said:
I think Nissan is being more realistic in their pricing , but the new GTR isn't going to be an exotic by any means. Latest info shows it to be a M3 version of a G35. Hence the lower price point.
WingZ said:
I don't think its the M3 version of the G35, that was just a test mule. Otherwise they are going to have a hard time justifying asking 45K over a G35. With 45K in additional funds I could build a G35 to beat the hell out of a slightly modded factory car, AWD aside.
clr1024 said:
Lastest info I've seen it really seems that way. Check out caranddriver.com
I think with the NSX replacement has to be at least a MR layout, V10-V12, 600+hp, carbon chassis, lightweight body panels nothing less.... :smile:
Honda needs to target and build the new NSX as an ENZO killer not a F430. With that kind of power and performance it should keep the car dominant for the next 15years :wink:
Think Big HONDA!!!
As far as prices I think $150k may seem fair (with specs stated above) considering they sold NSX for almost $70k back in 1991.
(imagine how much gas or happy meals cost back in 1991 vs. todays :biggrin: )
Honda needs to target and build the new NSX as an ENZO killer not a F430. With that kind of power and performance it should keep the car dominant for the next 15years :wink:
Think Big HONDA!!!
As far as prices I think $150k may seem fair (with specs stated above) considering they sold NSX for almost $70k back in 1991.
(imagine how much gas or happy meals cost back in 1991 vs. todays :biggrin: )
Last edited:
amgnsx said:
WOW!
The dreaming has arrived to a new level in this section of Nsxprime!!!!
Not only "Enzo performance". WE NOW WANT TO KILL IT.
What do you need? A full fledged Formula 1????
PS: ah I almost forgot, we want all this for 150k!!! 
WingZ said:
Taken from car and driver:
Even though the GT-R will employ a purpose-built body, chassis, and engine, one senior Nissan official says there is still a chance the new GT-R will share part of its name with the Japanese version of the G35, the Skyline
Based on this I still feel like what I said is true, maybe they are doing some tests in a G35 but the skyline gt-r will have its own chasis and engine. As I said I can't see Nissan/Infinity asking 45K for an additional 150 hp alone. It won't sell. People will just buy the g35 and add a supercharger or turbo for a lot less money.
clr1024 said:
I see your point. Although it's not just hp that will make the GTR stand out apparently Lotus is tuning the suspension as well to give it balance a modded G35 wouldn't likely get.
Unfortunately I agreed with our old friend liftshard back in the day:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58278 ;
Only in terms of Honda's financial interests. Nothing else he said could be comprehended by a sane person.
If Honda tries to sell the new NSX for over 120K they are cruising for a tremendous bruising.
It's absolutely essential that they keep the price at 95-115K. As we discussed, people who can spend 190K on a Ferrari F430 are not going to buy an NSX. If they were considering a Ferrari at all they are not interested in an "alternative." They want the real deal, and quite frankly Honda doesn't stand a chance in a brand war.
Go on F chat and see all the people who will defend the 348 to the grave, particularly when comparing the NSX. That's brand loyalty right there folks.
Honda's main target is going to be the Gallardo, Aston, 911TT and Maserati. No one will choose the NSX over those cars if the prices are the same. NO ONE. The new NSX must be a brute AND be 25K+ cheaper than the just mentioned cars.
I hope everyone pays attention to the forthcoming Lexus LF-A disaster. Toyota is going to crash and burn with this thing and I hope Honda takes note and does the right thing w/ the new NSX.
But hey, if Honda is hell-bent on putting out another showcase piece with no regard for financial gain (or loss) than that's fine too. I'm not complaining.
I'm just addressing the situation in terms of a business move which may be the wrong point of view, but I think Honda would probably like to sell some of these at the end of the day. :biggrin:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58278 ;
Only in terms of Honda's financial interests. Nothing else he said could be comprehended by a sane person.
If Honda tries to sell the new NSX for over 120K they are cruising for a tremendous bruising.
It's absolutely essential that they keep the price at 95-115K. As we discussed, people who can spend 190K on a Ferrari F430 are not going to buy an NSX. If they were considering a Ferrari at all they are not interested in an "alternative." They want the real deal, and quite frankly Honda doesn't stand a chance in a brand war.
Go on F chat and see all the people who will defend the 348 to the grave, particularly when comparing the NSX. That's brand loyalty right there folks.
Honda's main target is going to be the Gallardo, Aston, 911TT and Maserati. No one will choose the NSX over those cars if the prices are the same. NO ONE. The new NSX must be a brute AND be 25K+ cheaper than the just mentioned cars.
I hope everyone pays attention to the forthcoming Lexus LF-A disaster. Toyota is going to crash and burn with this thing and I hope Honda takes note and does the right thing w/ the new NSX.
But hey, if Honda is hell-bent on putting out another showcase piece with no regard for financial gain (or loss) than that's fine too. I'm not complaining.
I'm just addressing the situation in terms of a business move which may be the wrong point of view, but I think Honda would probably like to sell some of these at the end of the day. :biggrin:
Last edited:
amgnsx said:
I would love to see that :biggrin:
But:
600HP and CF bodies are not cheap. Honda will not be able to keep the price down around 110K with that technology. No way. That's a little unrealistic. Besides, the F430 is 90% of the performance of the Enzo anyway.
And don't forget, gas is disproportionately high right now. You can't use gas prices as an economic barometer.
The original NSX sold for $60,000. The 348 sold for $90,000. That's 67% of the price. The F430 sells for ~$195,000. 67% of that is ~$130,000. $150,000 is too high of a price, period.
The ZO6 delivers 90% of the F430 performance (arguably more) and costs 38% of the F430 price. Do you think the ZO6 would sell at 90K? Of course not. Chevy knows they must keep the price pathetically low--performance has nothing to do with it. It's the ZO6's sole selling point.
Honda can get away with more b/c of the quality and hopefully better looks, comfort and technology. But not much more.
Similar threads
