Metal Flecks In Oil

[eventhorizon]

Just got my car back after having the oil pan gasket replaced. The technician showed me some oil taken from the pan and it appeared to have metal flecks in it. Where could these be coming from? Should I investigate further, if so how would I do that? He asked if the car ever smokes and I said it has in the past but I was assuming that was coming from the turbo's oil seals letting go, not the engine itself. Any input or guidance would be great!

Thanks everyone.

 

[m3456y]

I would have an oil analysis done. It will tell you what type of metal is in there and your mechanic will be then more able to determine where it is coming from. Most airplane engine mechanics or semi truck leasing companies can point you in the right direction for this service. Metal filings in your oil is never a good thing. Good Luck.

 

[TyraNSX]

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

A lot of the guys on turbodiesel register use this place. Some filtration fanatics over there.

 

[Batoutahell]

Have you noticed a slight knocking, especially at high rpm? When I see metal shavings in the oil pan, I suspect bearings before rings.

 

[eventhorizon]

No I have yet to hear any knocking. It drives real smooth so I was very surprised when I heard about the flecks. Do you think the car is ok to drive since I am not experiencing any other symptoms? I have a road rally I would hate to miss cause of this.

 

[MashimaroNSX]

Not sure where the flecks may be coming from, but in the meantime you may want to buy a magnetic drain bolt so you can at least collect and clean out some of it.

 

[eventhorizon]

Where coud I get one of those at? Auto parts store? Special size required for NSX?

 

[Hugh]

Where coud I get one of those at? Auto parts store? Special size required for NSX?

Most auto parts stores carry them. It is the standard thread pattern used in any Honda/Acura six cylinder engine.

 

[VBNSX]

Not sure where the flecks may be coming from, but in the meantime you may want to buy a magnetic drain bolt so you can at least collect and clean out some of it.

works for some cars.. but if anything starts to 'fleck' away, it'll be the bearings.. and usually those bearings are made of.... copper...

rods: titanium
block: aluminum

all are not magnetic...

to be honest... i have one on my car and it's fairly useless

x

 

[drew]

Is your car turbo-charged? (I can't tell from your comments).

I'm not sure an analysis would do much for you, unless you are planning conducting major repair operations immediately. I would continue driving the car until you HAVE to rebuild.

I would get the magnetic plug, change the oil more often and see what breaks. At some point any engine will need a rebuild, yours will probably need it sooner.

Exception: If your car is turbo charged, get them rebuilt NOW. An out of spec turbo is a grenade waiting to fall into your engine and cause needless damage.

An analysis would be helpful if this were a pre-purchase inspection. But you own the car and the problem, so you are just spending time and money on something that you are probably not going to act on (meaning: any information you get will be useless, because you are not going to use it anyways).

 

[eventhorizon]

Yes it is a turbocharged car. It has never been rebuilt, but I am taking that it might be coming soon. What would something like that cost? Would that be similair to the SOS refresh program?

 

[eventhorizon]

Correction, are you saying to get the engine rebuilt, or just the turbos? I am looking for a place to rebuild the turbo system, but am not having any luck.

 

[m3456y]

An analysis would be helpful if this were a pre-purchase inspection. But you own the car and the problem, so you are just spending time and money on something that you are probably not going to act on (meaning: any information you get will be useless, because you are not going to use it anyways).[/QUOTE]

That's kind of like have a blood test, finding you have a potentially serious health problem and then ignoring the results.

Fixing it now could save you money down the road if you should have a catastrophic failure. An oil analysis can be done for around 30 bucks. You may not want to hear the truth, but...having used them for a number of years, they are very useful tools that are very accurate.

 

[rasir_x]

Yes it is a turbocharged car. It has never been rebuilt, but I am taking that it might be coming soon. What would something like that cost? Would that be similair to the SOS refresh program?

I'm thinking about a rebuild also from SOS stage 1 F/I rebuild instead of paying $1,400 for the 60k mile maintance and $1,700 for the water pump and timing belt. I'll let you know.

 

[eventhorizon]

I am thinking that perhaps it could be parts of a bearing from one of the turbos. After driving home yesterday the turbines were making a noticibally differnt noise. Not a rattle (course there is a rattle when I turn HARD to the right) but more of a whooooo very high, but at low RPMs. There was also some buzzing at low throttle application.

What would I need to look for if I decided to take the turbos off today? I want someone to rebuild them, but if the cost is going to be to great I would rather put a light weight stock exhaust back on and deal with the turbos another day. Is this something that would be advisable? Can you go back to NA from FI? What else would I need to look for before doing this?

 

[zahntech]

Going back to N/A would require detuning the car and changing all the things that were changed for the FI set up, ie fuel pressure regulation,fuel injectors if larger ones were used ect ect ..sounds like taking the turbos off and having them inspected/rebuilt would be the best first step.

 

[eventhorizon]

Ahh, that would make sense. If I were to dismantle the system today and get the turbos out, where would I send them for repair? Any place that you guys would recommend, I can't find someone locally.

 

[drew]

Welcome to the extreme PITA that turbo's are. I would take them out and sell them to somebody who likes to spend a lot of their money and time on such things. People who would rather spend their money and time on something don't get turbocharged cars!

I'm afraid you are going to have to stop driving your car now (yes, right now) if you think the turbo's are going bad. When they grenade they can throw chips back into the engine (and destroy it) or they can take blow a seal take out all your oil out (and destroy your engine) or they can catch on fire (and destroy your car)...anyways you get the point: get the turbo's rebuild NOW.

You can get your turbos rebuilt at turbocity.com you can either send the units out or they can send you the parts (with a nice video How To).

Time to get a rental and deal with your turbo's.

Drew
/Gawd, I love turbos....makes me feel young again when I had nothing better to do with my life.

 

[eventhorizon]

Drew,

Sound like you've had a bad run in with a failing turbo before :smile:

Is the repair within the limits of a novice (technically inclined, just never done it before) or should I just ship them out to turbo city and let the pros handle it?

 

[drew]

Sounds like you can easily do it yourself. It is a fairly simple job if you have the right tools. I don't know anything about your turbos, but generally it is a R&R of the parts...talk to TurboCity and they are the experts...just so you don't need a special press, mandrel or something.

The hard part is dealing with the congealed fasteners, engine oil everywhere and the tight access. A single rounded off bolt or nut can ruin your entire weekend...and the weekend after that...and probably the one after that too.

I would buy two sets of kits...that way you'll have a spare set, because you will need it soon enough. At some point you will just buy spare complete units that are "ready to go" and minimize your down time...

Yes, I've had great fun with turbo's. I had the plasma stud remover guy on speed dial...used him about twice a year to remove some bolt that broke off in the exhaust manifold.

Drew

 

[eventhorizon]

Well my brother and I have compelty removed both turbos. They are extremly dirty. One turbo that was the most covered in oil actually was missing what we are assuming is an oil drain plug. When we tipped it over it just started dumping fresh oil on the floor. The other unit had both drain bolts intact. The fans don't look chipped up, but they do have some oil in them on one of the units. I can post some pics if that would help anyone tell me if these are still salvagable or if I should junk them.

 

[scorp965]

Doesn't your car have self-contained aerodyne turbos?

These require their own oil changes, on a regular interval, seperate from the engine... AFAIK the rebuilding of aerodynes is somewhat of a challange, given the company is no longer in business.

 

[eventhorizon]

Those would be my turbos. Did not know the company was out of business. I would guess this is going to make the parts difficult, if not impossible to find. Anyone you would recommend? Right now I am planning to send them off to TurboCity, but if its going to be a nightmare to get these rebuilt, I might just go back to NA instead. Not sure how/who will de-tune the engine back down to spec settings however. Kinda worried about how this is all going to add up.

 

[scorp965]

Those would be my turbos. Did not know the company was out of business. I would guess this is going to make the parts difficult, if not impossible to find. Anyone you would recommend? Right now I am planning to send them off to TurboCity, but if its going to be a nightmare to get these rebuilt, I might just go back to NA instead. Not sure how/who will de-tune the engine back down to spec settings however. Kinda worried about how this is all going to add up.

Does TurboCity service aerochargers? It is a common practice to take these old Bell/Aerodyne twin turbo kits and convert them to conventional turbos, but the trick is getting the oil to the turbos, since the original concept involved self-oiling units - the cartech twin turbo kit is essentially this original Bell/Aerodyne twin turbo, the one you have, but modified to work with conventional turbochargers.

Honestly, if there is a problem with your turbo setup, the 'easy' way out would be to either have the aerochargers serviced (there must be someone who works on them, somewhere), or remove the system from your car - I would not attempt to do an inexpensive/DIY turbo conversion on your setup, as things could easily go wrong.

I would do nothing until I had the oil analyzed, and determined what was in the oil and where it was coming from - even if it turns out to be something trivial, which is rarely the case when oil/metal are concerned, at least you now know a little more about your setup, and you can research proper care (and yes, re-oiling) of your aerochargers - certainly you will want to find a replacement fill cap for the one aerocharger, and it would probably be safe to have them both rebuilt only because you don't know how often their oil was changed prior to your ownership, and it hasn't been changed since your ownership. You will probably also want to search nsxprime, and google, for more information on aerodyne and the aerocharger.

 

[eventhorizon]

Which oil should I have analyzed? I am assuming you are talking about the engine oil, not the oil from the turbo units.