Me vs 430

[Meeyatch1]

So how did the cop justify not giving you a ticket?
Must be the day for street racing, i was getting egged on by a late 70's firebird that was jacked up in the back and built for drag racing or something, driven by a young kid too. What was so stupid was there were three cars in front of both of us in each lane, you couldn't go anywhere! Then as soon as I could move ahead a bit in my lane (because it was moving faster) he'd gun it but have no where to go, complete idiot! Then again, you'll all say it, I live in MI. :biggrin:

It is Michigan!! I TOLD YOU!!

 

[comquat1]

It is Michigan!! I TOLD YOU!!

What am I, your bitch tonight? :tongue:

 

[RenGen]

That's a great story and probably worst than what I did letting go off the steering wheel at 110 to check if my car still pulls to the right (it did not by the way).

Similar story happened to me too today. A Mazda RX 7 tried to induce me to a drag race in a traffic light. I did not give in to the temptation probably because I know I can smoke him or maybe I am not challenged enough. The idea however to show this guy who the man or the car is, also crossed my mind. But thinking of the time my car will be in the shop, my insurance rate, and besides if I won't get hurt in an unfortunate event my wife will surely hurt me. The bottom line was I did not succumbed to the temptation. Have I matured or am just being careful? Probably both, the stats will not lie. In my line of work I see this almost everyday, young people in there best and productive stage of life, being snatched out. I just want to enjoy my car, and life.

By the way Larry B did a wonderful job, I am driving a real NSX now.

Rene

 

[nsxsupra]

Temptation is hard to resist. You are super lucky to walk away with no tickets.

Racing on the street can really destroy someone's life. Just imagine if the opponent had wrecked the car, and died. The other person who was racing could be held respondsible as well.

 

[ediddynsx]

wow good think you did not get hurt and I am surprised......maybe the 430 guy did not know how to drive.......that car is suppose to be way faster than 360 and handle better also.....i would figure a supercharged nsx would be maybe keep up with it for a little bit but the 430 is in another league........well be careful and don't do it again

 

[GHOSTRIDER]

You must have been dreaming. No way a F430 doesn't wax a NA NSX.

 

[John Anderson]

You must have been dreaming. No way a F430 doesn't wax a NA NSX.

Your right, that's the understatement of the decade. Not only crazy for street racing but crazy for taking on a 430. I would think this would be an easy ticket to bet, since it's not even a race.....

 

[Da Hapa]

I am not going to flame you....you realize what you did was not the smartest thing and you owned up to it. That is more than 99.9% of the people in the world who would blame someone or something else. I am just glad you or the Ferrari driver did not hit anything and are still here. Everyone makes a mistake...if you think you don't you are full of it. Write that down.

Yeh... what Mitch said! :smile:

 

[LJSB]

That's a great story and probably worst than what I did letting go off the steering wheel at 110 to check if my car still pulls to the right (it did not by the way).

It was I that made it pull not to the left or right but foreword.
Larry made it pull harder. :biggrin:

IMHO driving with your hands off the wheel at 110 or any speed is
worse.

You must have been dreaming. No way a F430 doesn't wax a NA NSX.

since it's not even a race.....

Gorgeous car the 430. It is faster and many more things but the only wax on my car is Zymol. :smile:
Funny you should say that. I went home to a quick wash and a detail spritz and was thinking he probably was dropping his off at the service department. :tongue:

Numbers look much bigger in a magazine than they do behind the wheel, wheel to wheel.

We both had a chance to lead. HE looked much bigger in my rear view mirror than I did in his, but to his chagrin I wasn't shrinking, I stayed right there.
If he wasn't trying then neither was I. The 430 is faster and I learned that but he won't be kicking sand in the face of any NSX's again real soon and if he does I'll keep my seat right on my towel and suck it up.
I expected to get blown away like a toy instead I got a little breeze. A very little breeze.
Certainly I've seen people with a greater vehicle advantage lose races at a track where this should of been going on, not on the road.
Enjoy the story and take it for what it was. Car and Driver hasn't called me yet, but I'm ready if they do. :biggrin:

 

[Pacemaker Kid89]

And just to think, if this was in Cali, your car would of been crushed

 

[legendr35]

cool story. pretty fast nsx you have, i think the F430 runs high 11s in the 1/4 mile, you're probably in the low-mid 12s i assume?

 

[Russ]

Street racing? Jeez, Joe, what next, getting the band back together? :biggrin:

 

[LJSB]

Street racing? Jeez, Joe, what next, getting the band back together? :biggrin:

Thank you. I needed that! :biggrin:

I never ran a 1/4 not interested. As I've always said, I'm a poser and not a warrior.
I was wrong and have no excuse for what I did but I am telling it as I saw it from my seat. Frankly I was amazed and I was not the only one.
As I waited for the light to change so I could pull over, a 3 Series BMW Conv. pulled along side me in the next lane.
He said, gesturing to my car "wow, I didn't know those things were that fast!" and he very nicely let me switch lanes and get in front of him so I could join the party waiting for me on the side of the road. :frown:

Two good things.
1)Today I started hunting for a older BMW 3 series coupe to make a track car.
2) Russ, I also am practicing my bass. :smile:

 

[LJSB]

Update:
Owner of Ferrai came in to day to shake my hand.
It was a F-1 360 duhhhhh.
He told me he was definitely not holding back. :smile:

 

[docjohn]

Cmon man learn your ferrari model identifiers! :tongue: You had the bench racers in a tizzy :wink:

 

[NsXMas]

Update:
Owner of Ferrai came in to day to shake my hand.
It was a F-1 360 duhhhhh.
He told me he was definitely not holding back. :smile:

Wow, what happened to him? No jail time? :smile:

How did he find you?

 

[LJSB]

How did he find you?

My shop has been in this town repairing cars for 60 years and we are the only one that has NSX's, in particular a red one, parked outside.
It was a lucky guess.

 

[comquat1]

Wow, what happened to him? No jail time? :smile:

Yean, inquiring minds want to know! :smile:

 

[LJSB]

Re: Me vs F360

He did not go to jail and as Forrest Gump would say "that's all I've got to say about that".

The real story was not to street race and the results of our friendly but stupid duel.
Some cars are more, and some less than magazines and their numbers would suggest.
For me the only magazine article that included the NSX that was really worth reading,that I've seen, was the one where Mario Andretti drove it and other great cars and gave his impressions.
I think most of the articles are written by a bunch of dorks that are writers not automotive analysts or great drivers.
If these writers left their jobs, they'd be just fine at editing recipes for the sides of cereal boxes. Like any good writer they're more interested in their writing and entertaining the reader than the car their writing about.
Guys like Mario Andretti are getting paid, but the love of cars and success in the sport of racing got him there, not a college degree and a good resume in the editorial field.
Reading road tests and car reviews in auto magazines are entertaining.
IMO they are to cars what the supermarket tabloids are to entertainment,the arts and the depiction of life on earth for alien visitors. :biggrin:
Hope I don't fall stepping down off this soapbox. :tongue:

 

[vtecNSX1]

And just to think, if this was in Cali, your car would of been crushed

No it wouldnt have been crushed. I believe that only happens with organized street racing and even then is rare. About the racing, you are lucky they didnt do more. When I got caught I had a misdemeanor ticket and car impounded :frown: . Is ok though im not supposed to know better (I was 19) :biggrin:

 

[nuccaJB]

Well now that you mention it was a 360 I am totally disapointed in you... :tongue: Just kidding. This is a good post and was fun to read. It does not really sound like any serious street racing to me. I would really like to hear who on prime has not wound their NSX out to 100+ on some random occasion for no reason. It is easy to get this car in triple digits and not realize even when not racing.

 

[liftshard]

Well now that you mention it was a 360 I am totally disapointed in you... :tongue: Just kidding. This is a good post and was fun to read. It does not really sound like any serious street racing to me. I would really like to hear who on prime has not wound their NSX out to 100+ on some random occasion for no reason. It is easy to get this car in triple digits and not realize even when not racing.

Dude, I hit 100+ every day I drive the thing. Change it to 120+ and you have a better statement. I don't think there could be anyone on here who doesn't do 100 in this car routinely. It's just too easy on any interstate highway.

 

[KooLaid]

Bump OOOOLD thread resurrection but you are my new hero :biggrin: lol

 

[Jetpilot3]

Well I think this thread is a good one and I know most if not all of us have been in the same situation. Kudos to Pjbasso to be honest and heck this past weekend I was casually driving at 160 - 200km/h on the highway and felt I was safe until a cop screamed up behind me and gave me the wave.

Now what's peaked my interest here is I've always been a keen critic and supporter of taking street racing or high speed driving to the track. The article below makes me shiver to think what can happen when we all think driving fast on a track is the way to go...yes beats the street but look at the legal implications!

Someone posted regarding Benjamin Keaton and his Porsche Carrera GT and I came across this article taken from Business Week:


Carrera GT Crashes Into Court
Exploring the legal implications - and unfortunate consequences - of powerful cars in amateur hands

The wall had been placed closer to the track to enlarge the area behind it for use as a children's play area

Last summer, a number of SCM readers were glued to the Internet, viewing the pictures and reading the extensive chatter about a horrific crash at the California Speedway.

Ben Keaton and his passenger, Corey Rudl, were both killed when Keaton's Porsche Carrera GT crashed into a wall at an estimated speed of about 145 mph during a Ferrari Owners Club track day.

The crash photographs were sobering, and the Internet stories were engrossing. Added interest came from the fact that Keaton and Rudl, at 39 and 34 respectively, were both very successful young men. Rudl, in particular, was well known as an Internet marketing guru.

LAWSUIT FILED

Predictably, the lawsuit has been filed. Rudl's wife Tracey filed suit against a long list of defendants, seeking an unspecified amount of damages for her husband's wrongful death. She is represented by Craig McClellan, a very successful San Diego-area personal injury attorney who made a name for himself in the '80s when he represented a plaintiff who successfully sued Porsche on the theory that their 911 Turbo was too difficult a car to handle to be sold to inexperienced drivers.

"Legal Files" interviewed McClellan to learn more about the case. First off, Craig is no enemy of sports car manufacturers and aficionados. He is an ex-racer, having started in SCCA club racing in 1968 with an Elva Courier, then moving to an MG Midget, an Austin Healey 3000, and a number of other race cars. He has no beef with Porsche, and is a former owner himself. He also takes no credit for having caused Porsche to abandon the U.S. market with its 911 Turbo, as that happened about a year before he filed his lawsuit. However, he points out, "When they returned to the market with the 911 Turbo, they offered driver training to all their customers."

THE REAL STORY

There were many versions of the story broadcast on the Internet, all at least partially true. According to McClellan, here's what really happened. Keaton had told several people that he had been having handling problems with the Carrera GT. Apparently, it was tail-happy. He decided to take it to the Ferrari Owners Club track day and see if he could work things out. Rudl had taken his Lamborghini to the track day, but it suffered from overheating. He was telling friends that he should sell it and get something else. Keaton, who did not know Rudl, suggested a Carrera GT and offered to give him a ride and show him what the Porsche was like.

As the Porsche was completing a lap, the flagman sent a Ferrari onto the front straight. The driver hesitated, then started late and slow. The flagman saw the Porsche come onto the straight and tried to stop the Ferrari, but it was passing him by then, and neither the driver nor passenger noticed his waving arms or heard his shouts.

The Ferrari continued onto the straight at a relatively slow speed, just as the Carrera GT caught it. Keaton swerved to avoid contact, the Porsche's rear came around, and it skidded into a concrete barrier wall. The wall had been placed closer to the track than its original position in order to enlarge the area behind it for use as a children's play area during an earlier NASCAR race. The end result was the fatal crash.

THE CLAIMS

The lawsuit asserts a number of claims against several defendants. The more significant are:

• Keaton Estate - Failure to inform Rudl that he had been having handling problems with the Porsche, and that he had a recent incident where he lost control of the car.
• Racetrack owners and operators - Maintaining an unsafe racetrack as a result of inadequate maintenance, signage, and safety controls, and not moving back the concrete barriers after creating the children's play area.
• Ferrari Owners Club and the flagman - Negligently operating the track day by sending the Ferrari onto the track at the wrong time, violating their own rules by allowing passengers in the cars, failing to disclose Keaton's dangerous driving propensities, and allowing the track day to occur without moving the concrete barriers back to where they belonged.
• Ferrari driver - Not paying attention to the flagman, entering the track improperly, driving too slowly, and moving directly into the path of the Porsche.
• Porsche - Product liability for selling an unsafe car. This falls into three levels of defect.
1. There was some mechanical problem with this particular car that made it handle badly.
2. There are design defects with the Carrera GT that make it a poor-handling car, mainly tail-happy.
3. Third: The Carrera GT is too difficult a car to handle at high speeds for the average driver without instruction.


WHAT ABOUT THE RELEASE?

"Legal Files" recently addressed the enforceability of releases given by track participants and concluded that they are generally enforceable if the injuries are sustained by hazards that are contemplated at the time the release is given. This case tests the effect of the release signed by Rudl in two ways. One is that it alleges that the track owner and operators managed it in an unsafe manner and contrary to established safety standards for racetracks. In other words, they didn't have to make it as safe as the street, but they did have to make it safe as racetracks go. The other is that it alleges that numerous pertinent facts were concealed from Rudl, and he therefore did not give an informed consent.

CLAIMS ABOUT THE CAR

The claims about the Carrera GT itself are likely of most interest to us. Whether there was a mechanical issue with this particular car, or whether the Carrera GT design is inherently unstable, are matters that are best left to the engineers to debate.

But the claim that the Carrera GT is too hot to handle is something that all of us can think about. And this isn't just Porsche's problem. Clearly, the same claims can be made against other supercars, such as the Ford GT, the Enzo, and a host of others. A quick Internet search will locate sites whose function is to display photos of wrecked supercars, typified by www.wreckedexotics.com. It isn't hard to conclude that many of these cars are sold to owners who have far more cash than driving skill. And it's probably realistic to assume that these owners are not going to recognize their limitations and will succumb to the desire to drive these cars "the way they were meant to be driven," sometimes with disastrous consequences for themselves and others.

Should the manufacturers be required to qualify owners before selling these cars to them? How are they supposed to determine qualifications? And should they automatically be held liable when they sell supercars to owners who can't handle them?

McClellan says, "No, Porsche should only be liable because this car was defective." But then he adds, "It is defective, however, if the risks of its design outweigh the benefits. If its power and handling characteristics make it too dangerous for the average driver without training or instruction, then it is defective. Porsche should be liable because it sold a defective vehicle to Ben Keaton."

I certainly can't profess to have the answers to all of these questions, but I think this case is going to answer some of them after it works its way through the legal system. We'll keep you informed.


Draneas is an attorney and car collector in Oregon. His comments here are general in nature and not a substitute for a consultation with an attorney. He can be reached at [email protected]

 

[MashimaroNSX]

Long day at work again Joe? :smile: