Man shot dead exiting Florida Plane...

It's a difficult situation and an unnecessary tragedy. The man was apparently bipolar and hadn't taken his medication, which his wife was shouting as she ran behind him. Unfortunately given the circumstances where he was reaching into his backpack and refused to get down on the ground, I'm not sure what else could be done other than to shoot him. I'm sure all of this happened so quickly that there really wasn't time to consider all the facts, and given current heightened security awareness and what happened recently in the UK, the feds could not take any chances. Sad really...
 
Hmmm...

These days with all the security precautions, you cant even carry tweezers passed security inspection. So for someone who is mentally ill, to claim to have a bomb in his carry-on, specially when his wife is screaming that he hasnt taken his medication, should have be taken into consideration.
(By the way, of course no bomb was found)

speaking of the UK.....they also shot an innocent latin american (from brazil), because "allegedly" he fit the description of a middle eastern man (olive complection) they wanted , and "allegedly" they thought he had a bomb in his bag. They shot him several times. Turned out a misunderstanding, and the poor guy didnt have a bomb like they "alleged". Now they are trying to compensate his parents...

very sad.....
 
chytaan said:
Hmmm...

These days with all the security precautions, you cant even carry tweezers passed security inspection. So for someone who is mentally ill, to claim to have a bomb in his carry-on, specially when his wife is screaming that he hasnt taken his medication, should have be taken into consideration.
(By the way, of course no bomb was found)
Click to expand...

Can't agree with you.

With the lives of everyone on board the plane potentially at stake, how was the officer to know it wasn't just a sham? You take the shot if you're presented with it and legally entitled to it... Killing that one man may not have been ideal this time, but next time, it may save hundreds of lives.
 
If the guy didn't stop and get down on the floor, and then reached for the bag when confronted, I say they did the right thing. It's unfortunate, but the message needs to be given that we won't take any chances...
OTOH, I was in ToysRUs shopping the other day, and there were several well-armed rent-a-cops patrolling the store, up and down the aisles. I could just imagine two little old ladies getting blown away because they were fighting over the last remaining Cabbage Patch Doll. jeesh:rolleyes:
 
other than on tv, how often does someone with a bomb actually announce they have a bomb (unless it's a threat - i have a bomb, give me all the cash or i'll kill us all). Across a tarmac with airplane noise, he could have yelled "I have a psalm" and been reaching for a bible. Yeah I suppose they couldn't take a chance, but I'm sure they had a pretty good idea there was no bomb. At least try to take out his arm or shoulder or something. Yeah, yeah, cops aren't trained to do that.
 
chytaan said:
Hmmm...

These days with all the security precautions, you cant even carry tweezers passed security inspection. So for someone who is mentally ill, to claim to have a bomb in his carry-on, specially when his wife is screaming that he hasnt taken his medication, should have be taken into consideration.
(By the way, of course no bomb was found)

speaking of the UK.....they also shot an innocent latin american (from brazil), because "allegedly" he fit the description of a middle eastern man (olive complection) they wanted , and "allegedly" they thought he had a bomb in his bag. They shot him several times. Turned out a misunderstanding, and the poor guy didnt have a bomb like they "alleged". Now they are trying to compensate his parents...

very sad.....
Click to expand...

No offense but I couldn't disagree with you more.

This is a tragedy for the man's family, the people who witnessed him being killed and the poor officers that took his life. But to blame the cops is just rediculous.

Air marshalls aren't afforded the luxury of a second chance. The fact that the wife was chasing after him and screaming that he hadn't taken his med's is irrelevant. I recall the terrorists of 9-11 working as a team and how was the officer to know that what the wife was claiming to be true was in fact true. The blame goes to the poor man (for not taking his med's) and no further. The poor officers that shot that man must live every day for the rest of their lives knowing that they took an innocent man's life. And they did it for the right reasons but that won't make it any easier to live with.

There is no room for error anymore. Adults need to be treated as adults and need to take responsibility for their actions. Take your med's. Do what the officer tells you to do. And don't blame the cops for doing their jobs.

Because I'll be the first to remind everyone that if that guy did have a bomb and nobody reacted we'd be screaming for the heads of the air marshalls.

And btw, the argument about you not taking tweezers on board is ludicrous. Anyone who doesn't think that people are getting things on to planes today that they aren't supposed to be getting on planes is kidding themselves. I don't fly as much as I used to but I can tell you that security isn't uniform and I personally know two people who inadvertently brought pocket knives on to flights in the last 12 months.

Airport security isn't a one layer process. The screenings are supplemented by xrays which are supplemented by air marshalls, etc.
 
I agree, this is completely different from the UK case with the innocent brazilian. In this case, he announced he had a bomb in his backpack and then reached inside the backpack after he was repeatedly told to get down on the ground. The air marshal had a split second to make his decision. Perhaps what would have worked better is if security had been equipped with immobilizing equipment eg. taser etc.

In the UK case, it was completely different. They had no reasonable grounds for suspicion other than that he was olive-skinned and he came out of an apartment complex that MAY have housed some terrorists. They then had plenty of time to take him down before he got into the crowded subway system but they didn't.

The problem with that whole situation was the way the police tried to cover it up. They claimed that he jumped a turnstile, that they indicated they were police and asked him to stop, that they tried to subdue him, and that he was wearing a thick padded jacket in warm weather. The truth later came out that he didn't jump any turnstile, they shouted for him to stop but eyewitnesses confirmed that they never said they were police officers, and a photo was leaked showing him lying on the subway floor wearing an open denim jacket.

If a bunch of plainclothes guys suddenly pull out guns and start shouting at you to stop, many people may have the inclination to run as well. The problem was that he didn't do anything suspicious and yet they ran into the subway train after him, tackled him to the ground, an officer sat on top of him and immediately unloaded his gun into his head. I realize that there was immense tension and heightened security since the UK bombings had just happened (the day before?), but this was completely uncalled for and could easily have been prevented if they had stopped him outside while he was on the way to the subway. The worst part of it was that they tried to cover the whole thing up by lying about the details, including that he had a thick padded jacket on and that they suspected he was wearing a bomb harness. If that photo hadn't been leaked to the media, the whole thing would have been swept under the rug.
 
chytaan said:
Hmmm...

These days with all the security precautions, you cant even carry tweezers passed security

.
Click to expand...

Very Very wrong!! a friend of mine who carrys a pocket knife with him everywhere, walked right onto a plane with two 3.5inch blades attached to his belt (he forgot about them) ..so to say that security won't let you pass with a tweezer is just not true ....

The mans wife is mostly to blame..she never should have let him get on that plane without taking his meds ..for his safety and the other passengers
 
slicer.jpg



Perfect call by the Marshalls, they do not have the luxury of running a blood test or brain scan while some FREAK is running around yelling he has a bomb.


Armando
 
Da Hapa said:
And btw, the argument about you not taking tweezers on board is ludicrous. Anyone who doesn't think that people are getting things on to planes today that they aren't supposed to be getting on planes is kidding themselves. I don't fly as much as I used to but I can tell you that security isn't uniform and I personally know two people who inadvertently brought pocket knives on to flights in the last 12 months.

Airport security isn't a one layer process. The screenings are supplemented by xrays which are supplemented by air marshalls, etc.
Click to expand...
No doubt about that, I recently flew to Mexico, passing through 3 airports on the way, American customs and Mexican customs and no one noticed the 5" pocket knife I had mistakedly left in my jacket pocket:eek: When I got to my hotel and emptied my pockets, I found the knife and was amazed that I made it thru all of those checkpoints.

The officers did the right thing in this instance, although the man was innocent, at the time it appears he posed a direct threat. In that situation, there is no room for error in judgement. It could have gone the other way very easily resulting in a tragic loss of life.
 
Last edited:
MiamieNeSeX said:
slicer.jpg



Perfect call by the Marshalls, they do not have the luxury of running a blood test or brain scan while some FREAK is running around yelling he has a bomb.


Armando
Click to expand...


Exactly.

Sidenote: I get on a plane with tweezers in my carry-on every time I fly. Need to keep my eyebrows.... I mean, you never know when you will get a splinter:)
 
Moral of the story - make sure you (or your husband) takes the medication, and kindly encourage him to not scream about his bomb. If you follow these directions, the likelihood of ever being in this situation goes way down.

I'm glad I wasn't there to witness this, as it is tragic, but these marshals did exactly what they had to do to protect the rest of the passengers. Unfortunately, they will have to deal with their own psychological issues, as it can't be easy to take someone's life under any circumstances. :frown:
 
I am proud of the two FAM's. They were trained to do just what they did. The threat posed itself, they recognized it, and took appropriate actions in an effort to save others. This is how it should be done, and it lets the bad guys know that we will not stand for another 9/11. As for announcing a bomb threat? Didn't that guy with the plastic in his shoes say something as he tried to blow up the plane? I am also proud of many of the responses in this thread. It is nice to see people recognizing a job well done. It is a tragedy for all involved, especially the wife and his family, but the FAMs did their job.
 
Apparently the air marshals use a type of ammunition that is “frangible” to reduce the risk of ricochet if a shot is fired onboard a plane.
from: http://www.airliners.net/articles/read.main?id=64


I don't know a ton about guns, but could this have caused greater injuries to the “suspect” than normal ammunition? (regardless of weather they should or shouldn't have fired)
 
They carry Sig model 229/357Mag using a Tactical Jacketed Hollow Point.
Frangible ammo is commonly used for shooting ranges. It is less likely to frag back toward the shooters. Bullet holes in airplanes is not really a big deal. A 357 or 40 cal hole in an airplane is small. The real damage to the aircraft is in the cost of the repair. Hollywood has made a living off of dramatizing shooting bullets in airplanes. If they really showed it doesn't do much we wouldn't buy $9 tickets. Besides I saw it on MythBusters.
 

Similar threads

Ric
What Really Happened Aboard Air France 447 from Popular Mechanics
Replies
14
Views
4K
Miner
M
NSXrebel
Ayrton Senna , 14 years ago
Replies
6
Views
14K
soloracer951
S
PHOEN$X
Is there a housing bubble brewing?
2
Replies
29
Views
7K
steveny
S
myf16
2004 Tour de California diary
Replies
0
Views
3K
myf16
myf16
MAJOR STONER
Al Bundy Qaeda
Replies
0
Views
1K
MAJOR STONER
MAJOR STONER
Back
Top