Looking to dial out understeer

What you guys think of this setup?

FRONT
Total toe: -3.0 mm. MUST BE EVEN
Camber: -1.5 deg.
Caster: 8 deg.

REAR
Total toe: +4.0 mm. MUST BE EVEN
Camber: -2.0 deg.

I'm running 215/40/17x8f & 275/35/18x10r using Bilsteins on the lower perch.
 
Onsoku said:
What you guys think of this setup?

FRONT
Total toe: -3.0 mm. MUST BE EVEN
Camber: -1.5 deg.
Caster: 8 deg.

REAR
Total toe: +4.0 mm. MUST BE EVEN
Camber: -2.0 deg.

I'm running 215/40/17x8f & 275/35/18x10r using Bilsteins on the lower perch.

personally think it needs more caster and negative camber in the front.

x
 
VBNSX said:
personally think it needs more caster and negative camber in the front.

x


I tend to agree...

I am running 9.8% caster yep
1/16 total toe front and back... Almost nothing.
3.1 front camber and 2.6 rear camber.

I have the comptech camber bushings. The car is very close to stock ride height.


I prefer a car that under steers than one that over steers.

If anyone is going to Sears Point next friday.... ?
Later,
Don


Later,
Don
 
VBNSX said:
personally think it needs more caster and negative camber in the front.

x

What if the car is mostly used for spirited street/ canyon driving? I'm not sure what the adjustment limitations are for a mostly stock susp. I'd like to get an alignment this afternoon, and the mech recommended those settings.
 
For spirited/canyon driving I'd still stick with more caster...

As far as the camber, one good question to ask would be:
How long do you expect your tires to last?

x
 
VBNSX said:
For spirited/canyon driving I'd still stick with more caster...

As far as the camber, one good question to ask would be:
How long do you expect your tires to last?

x

How caster can I add with a stock setup without having to go to 24hr Fitness?!?

Acceptable tire wear on RT-615's would about 6k+ miles.
 
Onsoku said:
How caster can I add with a stock setup without having to go to 24hr Fitness?!?

Acceptable tire wear on RT-615's would about 6k+ miles.


Haha... at least you'd get to enjoy the drive AND workout =)

I think on the stock setup you can reach 9 I think.... I don't remember...

wow... 6k miles on the rear.... that'd be a dream... Add just a tiny bit more camber in the front then since you don't track the car. I don't imagine you rolling the tire over on the outside edge and burning edges that much.

just my .02
x
 
VBNSX said:
For spirited/canyon driving I'd still stick with more caster...

As far as the camber, one good question to ask would be:
How long do you expect your tires to last?

x


I run a fair amount of camber... This is a track only car though. On a street car this will ware out your tires faster.

I running max camber I could get... This is good on the track but the steering is very heavy! I have a 95 with electric power steering and it is still heavy.

Later,
Don
 
I have a 95 with electric power steering and it is still heavy.
But isnt' the power gone above 30 or 35 mph? And heavy steering is good for feedback.
anyone is going to Sears Point next friday.... ?
Doesn't Hrant have that list yet? I hope we don't have to run the T-9 bus stop. Well, on 2nd thought I could use the practice. That's a tough brake zone and transition to get right.
 
I already have over 6k miles on the RT-615's, including two track days and a teen driving clinic. -1.3 degrees of camber, oe spec toe. They still have ~50% treadlife left. I anticipate another 6000 easy.
 
Thanks for the info guys; I ended up going with:

FRONT
Total toe: -.12 deg.
Camber: -1.9 deg.
Caster: 9.0 deg.

REAR
Total toe: +.15 deg.
Camber: -2.2 deg.

It was wandering and had sloppy response before...now I have to "re-learn":redface: the car; it now has very quick turn-in, no "slingshot" and need less steering input on some of my favorite on/off ramps
 
Last edited:
Which would be more beneficial for combined track and street using 275's in the rear?

a) Stepping up to a 235/40/17 in the front with the use of Cantell's GT fenders with OE camber specs

b) Continuing with the 215's on the front with as much camber as possible
 
The best is 235-40 fronts with as much camber as you can dial in with as little toe as you are comfortable with(-0.1 degree is what I run).

I find with my car, I need to throw the car hard into corners if I run more than '40 stagger' to the tires(235 front, 275 rear), the rear just seem to push the fronts on turn in on the track. I really like the 235, 275 set up with RA-1's on the track.
 
Just a few random comments IMO:

You are starting with a lousy combination of tire sizes so everything from there on is a major compromise. BioBanker, you may have reduced grip at the rear enough that it doesn’t understeer, but your front 205s define the limits of your car, and probably make for less predictable handling at the limit than if you had a more appropriate combination and less severe spring/bar configuration.

Those who corrected you on tire pressure effects were accurate.

Hot tire pressures of 30 psi? Seems low even for a street tire.

Reducing toe-out will help with corner exit, but similarly harm at turn-in. Not a good compromise I think.

Corner weighting is not the solution to under/over steer unless it happens only in lefts or rights.

Springs (and matching shocks) are for course tuning, bars for fine tuning and should be no stiffer than necessary, but you don’t have a wide range of spring rates available so get adjustable bars and try more camber in the front. Also, bars intrude less on creature comfort than do springs, making them more practical though less effective.
 
Nihilation said:
Which would be more beneficial for combined track and street using 275's in the rear?

a) Stepping up to a 235/40/17 in the front with the use of Cantell's GT fenders with OE camber specs

b) Continuing with the 215's on the front with as much camber as possible

235/40-17 works fine on stock fenders. You will experience a little rubbing under lock especially if you are lowered, however, it's minor. The 235 / 275 split is a really nice combo, especially at the track.

-- Chris
 
I think the key to well-balanced handling is the proper "stagger" (i.e. the difference between the front and rear treadwidths). 20-50 mm seems to work okay. Anything more than that seems to be a problem in one way or another.
 
nsxtasy said:
I think the key to well-balanced handling is the proper "stagger" (i.e. the difference between the front and rear treadwidths). 20-50 mm seems to work okay. Anything more than that seems to be a problem in one way or another.

I have 215/40-17 and 275/35-18 tires on my car. I haven't noticed any handling quirks. In fact my car is a regular on The Dragon and easily pulls turns in excess of 1g. She goes around corners as if on rails. The car is also equipped with Tein RA coilovers and adjustable front and rear sways.

What would I gain by changing the rears to a 265 width? I'm all about the pursuit of lateral g's and any insight would be appreciated.
 
nsxtasy said:
I think the key to well-balanced handling is the proper "stagger" (i.e. the difference between the front and rear treadwidths). 20-50 mm seems to work okay. Anything more than that seems to be a problem in one way or another.
I agree with Ken, but I would narrow the window to 30-40 mm of stagger.:wink: . More than 40 stagger and I don't like the way the car rotates at turn in, it takes too much effort to throw the car to get the rear end out and I have to drive it 'loose'. This is lots of fun, but not real fast.
 
Hugh,it depends.If Ken or I got your car on a track we might feel that your car indeed is undertired up front.Let me take it for a "spin" around sebring in Oct.:wink:
 
Chris@SoS said:
235/40-17 works fine on stock fenders. You will experience a little rubbing under lock especially if you are lowered, however, it's minor. The 235 / 275 split is a really nice combo, especially at the track.

-- Chris

So how wide of a front tire could I fit with the Cantell GT front fenders? Recommended offset and width for them?

docjohn said:
Hugh,it depends.If Ken or I got your car on a track we might feel that your car indeed is undertired up front.Let me take it for a "spin" around sebring in Oct.:wink:


Man, you had to mention Sebring! I want to go down for that track day sooooo bad! :frown:
 
Chris@SoS said:
235/40-17 works fine on stock fenders. You will experience a little rubbing under lock especially if you are lowered, however, it's minor. The 235 / 275 split is a really nice combo, especially at the track.

-- Chris

I'm lowered about 1" all around. Will a 235/40-17 fit an 17X8 wheel? 90% of my driving is of the DD variety but of course I make it up to the Dragon a couple of times a year and let's just say there's a bit of "lock to lock" then. :)

235mm width is 9.2 inches. An 8" wide wheel is about 86% of that width. Goodyear F1 GSD3 tires tend to have a bit narrower tread than most so I'm thinking that that size in a GSD3 would fit my wheels. Any comments? Thanks.
 
I've been running 235/40/17 on 17/8 ssr's for ever,no problems with nsx-r susp,other that the usual inner fender wall pollishing going on:wink:
 
For the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 on 16"/17" wheels, I recommend 205/45-16 and 245/40-17.

For street tires on 17"/18" wheels, I recommend 215/40-17 and 265/35-18. You can even go with 255/35-18 on the rear (as many owners do).
 
Right now I'm running 215/40-17 and 275/35-18 which is very close to stock diameter differential.

Will changing to a 235/40-17 up front cause TCS issues? I'm too lazy to dig up the tire size calculator right now.

Also, won't a wider front tire increase steering and turn-in effort? Or is it inconsequential when the car is at speed?
 
Hugh said:
Will changing to a 235/40-17 up front cause TCS issues? I'm too lazy to dig up the tire size calculator right now.

I got unlazy and found out the answer is no TCS problem. My current 215/40-17 and 275/35-18 setup is exactly the same tire diameter differential as stock.

Changing to a 235/40-17 in front would increase the differential by 2.6% over stock and not annoy Mr. TCS. Not that the TCS is really worth a shit anyway. It's the only "girlie" feature on the car. :)
 
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