Check out the link and utube video, the lf-a sounds amazing.
http://bridgetogantry.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=154&Itemid=1
//Kye
http://bridgetogantry.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=154&Itemid=1
//Kye
Lf-a $225,000!!
- Thread starter 6spdterror
- Start date
The hypocrisy is amusing whenever this car is talked about. A lot of people here just 'assume' what those spending a quarter million on a car are looking for. It's true many just want to join 'the club'. It's also true that many people who have the ability to spend this kind of money didn't get that way by blowing 100's of thousands of dollars for a badge. Even if the initial cost is 75%, the resale and maintenance could reasonably make it a much better overall value.
People here plainly state they avoided the 355 because of maint. costs, yet now they dismiss this. The wealthiest* people I know drive old cars, usually older MB's. Those people would probably pick the Lexus over the Ferrari given what I said above was accepted as true. I'd take an older Fcar as a collector, but I could probably daily drive the Lexus a few times a week depending on the weather.
If I was spending $225,000 for a car, I could care less about "Toyota Reliability." I probably would not be financially worried about expensive maintenance and go with an F-Car.
I agree it's the new money vs old money. Old money tends to be very frugal whereas "new" money tends to be flashy and buys things to be part of "status". New money goes for flavor of the month and old money will keep a car for YEARS like 10+
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After further thought, The $200K price tag will not happen. Lexus is not that stupid. Who the hell would pay that for a Japanese machine. The most expensive Japanese car sold in the US is around $100K for the Hybrid LS.
Quite a price jump from for a marque who has no significant history in high performance sports car nor do they have any recent significance in motorsports to justify their glory.
No one is dumb enough to pay $200K for a Lexus.
Quite a price jump from for a marque who has no significant history in high performance sports car nor do they have any recent significance in motorsports to justify their glory.
No one is dumb enough to pay $200K for a Lexus.
this seems the same thing happened in 1991. nsx cost less than a 348, and slightly faster.
now ,LF-A will be faster than a F430 or Gallardo. less expensive. but close price. also,it's from japan.
same thing like ,there were not many people will pay that much for a honda although it's a really good car.
now ,LF-A will be faster than a F430 or Gallardo. less expensive. but close price. also,it's from japan.
same thing like ,there were not many people will pay that much for a honda although it's a really good car.
I really think that anything more than 120k will make this car very uninteresting... let's see.
I wouldn't pay more than 60% of a 430 for it. But that is just me, don't care if this can do 200k miles and the Ferrari not: that is a Ferrari, this isn't... :tongue:
I wouldn't pay more than 60% of a 430 for it. But that is just me, don't care if this can do 200k miles and the Ferrari not: that is a Ferrari, this isn't... :tongue:
LOL Flashback to 1986 when everyone was saying that "NO ONE" will pay $20k for a Japanese car. That car was the Acura Legend:biggrin:
Absolutely. Remember when MB and BMW were the "ONLY" luxury sedans to have?? Lexus has certainly established itself as a luxury marque in the US and is very competitive with those two here. I think the painful pill for us to swallow is that Lexus has done a much better job than Acura at having the panache of a luxury marque. Lexus has gone after the venerable 3 series, as has Infiniti. They may not be to that standard yet, but BMW has certainly felt them coming on in that market. I think the LF-A will do much the same. It will be like the NSX was when it was introduced. It will certainly make Ferrari, Aston Martin etc. take notice. It may not surpass them from a performance, sales, or prestige standpoint initially, but it will if Lexus is as persistent as it has been in the luxury car arena. Acura had that opportunity and let it wither on the vine. I don't think there is a real comparison between Acura and Lexus at this point in time. Lexus has clearly defined itself as a true luxury brand. Acura is somewhere in the "Oldsmobile division" of Honda position.
Knock the LF-A all you want. At least Lexus is doing something, whether that's right or wrong. Acura sits on its ass and watches from the bleachers. Lexus hasn't laid any turds in its existence. Most of it's vehicles have sold well. Acura has no coupes. Abandoned some nameplates that were "Legendary" in favor of a ridiculous alphanumeric name scheme. Produced cars like the 5 cylinder Vigor etc. Quality and reliability are all Acura has left. That's all I've heard on this board about NSX vs. Ferrari is "sure the Ferrari is faster and has more prestige, but the NSX is so reliable and has such low maintenance!!!!!" Now, folks want to crucify Lexus for building a car that seems (at least initially) to have world class performance, styling AND reliability. It makes much more sense to have an F430 that might be 0.1 second faster to 60, costs more, and after 30,000 miles will be worthless. Or have an LF-A that will run forever like our NSXs. I realize Ferraris are great at resale value as long as they have less than 20,000 miles. I don't see too many F cars for sale with 100K miles on them like the NSXs. If you do, they aren't worth much. I'll take an LF-A and deal with the prestige issues with 10 years of driving enjoyment!!!! :smile:
So am I to understand you've placed a deposit? Will you at least take me for a ride?
Will
Everyone is assuming that Lexus = trouble free sports car.
Acura used a v6...this is uncharted territory. It may not be reliable at all. Then were are we?
Personally, the latest car show entry was ugly as sin. No thanks.
The original design was very cool looking...but again, if you're going up against lambo's and f-cars, you better at least look as good.
Acura used a v6...this is uncharted territory. It may not be reliable at all. Then were are we?
Personally, the latest car show entry was ugly as sin. No thanks.
The original design was very cool looking...but again, if you're going up against lambo's and f-cars, you better at least look as good.
You know I've heard quite a bit about this. Apparently V10 engines by design are less reliable than V8 or V12 configurations but why would two companies known for reliability both choose this configuration
You know I've heard quite a bit about this. Apparently V10 engines by design are less reliable than V8 or V12 configurations but why would two companies known for reliability both choose this configuration
It's true. V-10s are inherently difficult to keep reliable at high output. There are serious balance and vibration issues that need to be overcome. There's a reason they've been almost totally avoided by and large in the past. I've heard many experts predict that the Audi and BMW V-10s will not last past 50-60K miles without needing a major rebuild. Since the Gallardo and E60/61 BMWs get driven very little it may be many more years before this is proven true. I think it's safe to say that Honda's and Toyota's standards for motor reliability exceed that of Audi and BMW. Not that surprising that those two would release motors with such a low life expectancy.
With enough money, anything's possible but I suspect Honda threw in the towel on the V-10 project because they couldn't keep the motor under budget and have it last as long as they wanted it to. You may be seeing one of the reasons why the LF-A is expected to reach $200K.
When did Honda throw in the towel on the V10?
They haven't offcially killed it but they've been working on it for a while now. No ASCC in sight or anything else that's close to production. Just an unfounded theory.
It may be possible but I really doubt it in a <$70K car as the ASCC was supposed to be.
No they never gave a price but it was definitely going to be over $70K. Lowest price they had on the ASCC survey was $75. Whatever they release will be over $100k hopefully not by much though. With Lexus charging over $200k the Acura will definitely be up there.
I was pretty sure I read the ballpark price for the ASCC was going to be substantially less than the NSX. That's what made me suspicious initially. Honda started claiming it was going to have a V-10 and all these bells and whistles and I immediately thought that would be next to impossible for the price given and they would need to seriously rethink this project.
I can't imagine this new generation of Japanese supercars. You have an LF-A for $200K+ and an Acura for $150K+? And a GT-R for $70K? Strange. Honda has to know not to follow Toyota down this path of darkness.
I seriously cannot fathom who exactly would spend $225,000 on an LF-A. I like Toyota and I hope they pull this off but all I can say is get real. This will not be a sales success so I really do pray this will be a 2-3 year project that produces maybe thousand cars.
Yeah it is odd with them being so expensive. Eh I'm sure just because they have the money quite a few will buy. NSX was a sales flop but look at the impression it made.
What's really odd is that if Fukui hadn't stepped in the HSC with a 3.5L V6 would be perfect for the market with fuel economy and price to match. It's really funny that Honda has by either vision or dumb luck kept their engines small and their fuel economy fairly high. Had they kept forward with the HSC they would've nailed the upcoming supercar market in which more sports cars will move down to V6s or turbo fours to meet upcoming Cafe standards.
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Why are V10s unstable? I it just that they have an odd number of cynlinders on each side (e.g. 5) because V6s have 3 on each side.
I don't understand why Acura or Lexus doesn't consider a tiered approach to their next sports car. Mercedes offers multiple models of the SL. Porsche offers many different 911s, and even Nissan appears to be offering 2 models (eventually) of the GT-R. The NSX even had a couple of variants. It seems to make sense to appeal to a variety of varying wallet sizes. That would seem to help cover the basic engineering and tooling costs, since most all of the platform is shared between the models. Audi will have multiple engine offerings for the R8. It's not a bad thing to do this and might make more sense to the bean counters. It would be a good start for them to at least have a two door model of some kind in their lineup. I don't care if it has a Briggs and Stratton engine, they just need to have some kind of coupe to begin with. If Lexus did this, then they could easily sell the 1,000+ LF-As at $225K, then have a V-8 model that sells for $130-150K and sell 5,000-10,000 or more of those. Just a thought.
V-10s:
The V10 configuration is not an inherently balanced design like a straight-6 or V12. It can be balanced with crankshaft counterweights as an odd firing 90 degree V engine (BMW M5, Dodge Viper). It can be balanced with a balance shaft as an even firing 72 degree engine, or with a split crankshaft journal 90 degree V angle (Lamborghini Gallardo, Ford 6.8 V10).
From Mr. Uehara, translated:
Issues faced: It is rather easy to squeeze over 100hp/liter plus on 4 or 6 cylinder Engines; however, it is rather difficult to accomplish the same task on a large displacement, let's say, a 5 Liter engine. The problem is, a traditional V10 have series of vibration problems; therefore, to solve those problems and achieve “over” 100hp/liter (at the same time) will be a major challenge (That is why Ferrari stick with V8 and V12, and Gallardo's V10 will probably not last more than 60k miles without any major overhaul, and same can be said about BMW's M5/6's V10). "There were V10 prototypes built during the early 90's, when Honda was offered a deal to supply their detune but enlarged F1 Engine for the McLaren F1 road car project; however, the idea was deleted by the bearcats within the company, because they didn't understand the magnitude of that project. They were pushing to end the F1 Engine Program and to cut ties with McLaren International; therefore, the idea to supply Engine to McLaren never solidified. Imagine if the McLaren F1 had a Honda Engine...."
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With the upcoming fuel economy standard. Honda should advance to the year 2001 where they showed an NSX derivative in the Tokyo Motor show.
It was called the Honda Dual Note sporting a 3.5 V6 Hybrid with a combined 400 Hp and achieving 40mpg. It was a mid-engine sports car largely based on the NSX chassis and featured enough seats for your spouse and 2 of your best friends.
Dual Note was marked as Acura DN-X in Detroit show in 2002.
DN-X (Dual Note) was soon killed.
Then came 2003 HSC, which was best in show at the Tokyo Motor show.
Then came Mr. Takeo Fukui
Then came claims of a V10
Then came ASCC
Then came a redesign
It was called the Honda Dual Note sporting a 3.5 V6 Hybrid with a combined 400 Hp and achieving 40mpg. It was a mid-engine sports car largely based on the NSX chassis and featured enough seats for your spouse and 2 of your best friends.
Dual Note was marked as Acura DN-X in Detroit show in 2002.
DN-X (Dual Note) was soon killed.
Then came 2003 HSC, which was best in show at the Tokyo Motor show.
Then came Mr. Takeo Fukui
Then came claims of a V10
Then came ASCC
Then came a redesign
I'd never heard of this before! Any pics?
Thanks! Well it's not a looker but if they could get the HSC body on it they'd have a hit!
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