Lexus LF-A: NEW KING OF THE 'RING

[liftcontrol]

Lexus LF-A Sets 'Ring Record
According to Auto Express and Japanese car magazine Holiday Auto, Lexus insiders have revealed that the upcoming 552 bhp Lexus LF-A sports car has lapped the Nurburgring in 7 minutes and 24 seconds , slashing the current record time of 7 minutes and 27 seconds set by the Pagani Zonda F. Despite conflicting claims regarding the lap times of the all-new Porsche 911 GT2 (7:32 AutoBild, 7:25 AutoExpress), one thing appears to be clear; the Lexus LF-A has raised the bar to a new level.

While the German Nurburgring has always been the benchmark for measuring the performance of a sports car, Porsche and other European sports car manufacturers are starting to feel the heat of Japanese manufacturers, particularly from Nissan and Lexus, who are currently going head-to-head with their GT-R and LF-A sports cars. In September, the Nissan GT-R lapped the Nurburgring in 7 minutes and 38 seconds, narrowly beating the time of the Porsche 997 GT3. Even Honda is reportedly working on a 5.0-litre V10 powered NSX.

Sources say that the Nurburgring test mule was powered by a 4.8-litre V10 engine putting out 552 bhp, with a 9,000 RPM :biggrin: redline, capable of reaching 210 mph. We can't wait to hear the official announcement on the final specifications of this car.
-----------------------------------------
Well, if the numbers are accurate, the LF_A would do to the current exotics what the NSX did to the Ferraris of the world in the early ninetees. The LF-A and the GT-R have performance that the next NSX will have trouble equaling, much less beat and therefore my speculation is that Honda will announce [ONCE AGAIN] that they are rethinking the entire idea of a supercar.

 

[WingZ]

Repost.

Maybe not chief , it's possible that "pride" may force them to push harder. Remember Honda sees Toyota as their primary "enemy". This might cause Fukui to say the Japanese equivalent of "Aw Hell no":biggrin:

 

[ediddynsx]

lol :biggrin: Well honestly guys I am glad that the Japanese car companies decided to finally bring out a can of whoop ass. Because I know a lot of people always say how Japanese cars are underpowered. Well now its starting to look like you can get Ferrari or Lambo performance or even better for less. The styling of the cars I would have to say that the Euros look better.

 

[liftcontrol]

Repost.

Maybe not chief , it's possible that "pride" may force them to push harder. Remember Honda sees Toyota as their primary "enemy". This might cause Fukui to say the Japanese equivalent of "Aw Hell no":biggrin:

I certainly hope so, however I have little hope for a show of such pride.
I feel that Honda's pride died with Soichiro Honda. That is the only reason I can think of why Honda would ignore a gem like the NSX for 15 years and then just drop it.

Takeo Fukui is the most gutless blabber mouth of a CEO that ever led an automotive company. The man is shameless. The Japanese are known for their pride and the great shame they suffer when their honor and pride is involved. Considering the number of times Fukui's big mouth has blabbered without anything to show for it, I would say that if he had any pride he would have long since committed suppuko.

I do believe that they are likely to produce a new halo car. However this woule be a large GT with decent or even good performance but not a dedicated performance machine to challenge the best of the breed.

 

[NSXGMS]

I certainly hope so, however I have little hope for a show of such pride.
I feel that Honda's pride died with Soichiro Honda. That is the only reason I can think of why Honda would ignore a gem like the NSX for 15 years and then just drop it.

Takeo Fukui is the most gutless blabber mouth of a CEO that ever led an automotive company. The man is shameless. The Japanese are known for their pride and the great shame they suffer when their honor and pride is involved. Considering the number of times Fukui's big mouth has blabbered without anything to show for it, I would say that if he had any pride he would have long since committed suppuko.

I do believe that they are likely to produce a new halo car. However this woule be a large GT with decent or even good performance but not a dedicated performance machine to challenge the best of the breed.

Brilliant. :wink:

 

[NSXGMS]

Lexus LF-A Sets 'Ring Record
According to Auto Express and Japanese car magazine Holiday Auto, Lexus insiders have revealed that the upcoming 552 bhp Lexus LF-A sports car has lapped the Nurburgring in 7 minutes and 24 seconds , slashing the current record time of 7 minutes and 27 seconds set by the Pagani Zonda F. Despite conflicting claims regarding the lap times of the all-new Porsche 911 GT2 (7:32 AutoBild, 7:25 AutoExpress), one thing appears to be clear; the Lexus LF-A has raised the bar to a new level.

While the German Nurburgring has always been the benchmark for measuring the performance of a sports car, Porsche and other European sports car manufacturers are starting to feel the heat of Japanese manufacturers, particularly from Nissan and Lexus, who are currently going head-to-head with their GT-R and LF-A sports cars. In September, the Nissan GT-R lapped the Nurburgring in 7 minutes and 38 seconds, narrowly beating the time of the Porsche 997 GT3. Even Honda is reportedly working on a 5.0-litre V10 powered NSX.

Sources say that the Nurburgring test mule was powered by a 4.8-litre V10 engine putting out 552 bhp, with a 9,000 RPM :biggrin: redline, capable of reaching 210 mph. We can't wait to hear the official announcement on the final specifications of this car.
-----------------------------------------
Well, if the numbers are accurate, the LF_A would do to the current exotics what the NSX did to the Ferraris of the world in the early ninetees. The LF-A and the GT-R have performance that the next NSX will have trouble equaling, much less beat and therefore my speculation is that Honda will announce [ONCE AGAIN] that they are rethinking the entire idea of a supercar.

Wow. I thought the GT-R was going to be the story. Toyota has come in and re-written the books. I'm speechless if that's an accurate time. More than 10 seconds faster than the GT-R! The fastest car in the world...wow.

I knew the LF-A was going to have to be something special to be successful and it seems it is. With that kind of performance and the Lexus brand recognition I don't see why this car won't sell 3,000 units per year at any price under $150K.

Remember, the NSX was priced higher than $100K in 2007 dollars in 1991 and it was far from the fastest car in the world and Acura never had the brand recognition that Lexus has now.

If it is a V-10 that's amazing that Toyota could develop the engine. Toyota would not release something they thought was not capable of at least 100K miles.

Bravo Toyota. Now we know Honda had the opportunity to create something special with the HSC but clearly that's not the direction they want to go. It's going to take a real miracle to knock the LF-A of it's perch now.

 

[BD]

Lexus LF-A Sets 'Ring Record
According to Auto Express and Japanese car magazine Holiday Auto, Lexus insiders have revealed that the upcoming 552 bhp Lexus LF-A sports car has lapped the Nurburgring in 7 minutes and 24 seconds , slashing the current record time of 7 minutes and 27 seconds set by the Pagani Zonda F. Despite conflicting claims regarding the lap times of the all-new Porsche 911 GT2 (7:32 AutoBild, 7:25 AutoExpress), one thing appears to be clear; the Lexus LF-A has raised the bar to a new level.

While the German Nurburgring has always been the benchmark for measuring the performance of a sports car, Porsche and other European sports car manufacturers are starting to feel the heat of Japanese manufacturers, particularly from Nissan and Lexus, who are currently going head-to-head with their GT-R and LF-A sports cars. In September, the Nissan GT-R lapped the Nurburgring in 7 minutes and 38 seconds, narrowly beating the time of the Porsche 997 GT3. Even Honda is reportedly working on a 5.0-litre V10 powered NSX.

Sources say that the Nurburgring test mule was powered by a 4.8-litre V10 engine putting out 552 bhp, with a 9,000 RPM :biggrin: redline, capable of reaching 210 mph. We can't wait to hear the official announcement on the final specifications of this car.
-----------------------------------------
Well, if the numbers are accurate, the LF_A would do to the current exotics what the NSX did to the Ferraris of the world in the early ninetees. The LF-A and the GT-R have performance that the next NSX will have trouble equaling, much less beat and therefore my speculation is that Honda will announce [ONCE AGAIN] that they are rethinking the entire idea of a supercar.

We'll see if this is true. If the article was by a more reputable publication (s), I'll be more comfortable with the story. "Holiday Auto?" I find it hard to believe the track time figure for a prototype car that is better than the Zonda F simply due to the fact that it is most likely a much heavier car with less power and FR layout. But than again, you said it best, GT2 numbers were conflicted.

Than again, if this is true, ASC may have a similar chance. You know why? Because Toyota does not have a better record in performance car manufacturing or sports car racing than Honda; I doubt Honda will let this one by.

 

[WingZ]

We'll see if this is true. If the article was by a more reputable publication (s), I'll be more comfortable with the story. "Holiday Auto?" I find it hard to believe the track time figure for a prototype car that is better than the Zonda F simply due to the fact that it is most likely a much heavier car with less power and FR layout. But than again, you said it best, GT2 numbers were conflicted.

Than again, if this is true, ASC may have a similar chance. You know why? Because Toyota does not have a better record in performance car manufacturing or sports car racing than Honda; I doubt Honda will let this one by.

+1

 

[MartinSD]

Greetings
Toyota has always made large engines -- they just didn't sell them in any left hand drive cars. The Century -- a limousine -- has a V12 -- I think 48 valve. The emperor has always had a V12 limo -- currently called a Century. You see these things in Hong Kong -- about a dozen of these limo's there. I have also seen them in the UK. I don't know how many they build a year, but not very many. They produce lots of HP to move a large limo quickly. The older models did not meet US emissions standards.
Martin

 

[Doc C]

I doubt Honda will let this one by.

They already have!!! That wooshing sound you hear is Nissan and Toyota passing Honda. Honda has known about the LF-A for years as well as the GTR. This is no surprise. Toyota said from day one what they were going to do and did it. Honda can't commit to anything and has Fukui smoking crack and saying anything that pops into his head with no apparent factual basis. Remember when Acura used to be a premium auto manufacturer? It's become a branch parallel to Honda and not it's luxury division. Similar to what Chevy and Oldsmobile used to be. Acura still makes great cars. They are incredibly reliable and well engineered, but outside of that, what's to like? The LF-A won't be king for long. The new ZR1 will demolish that time for sure.

 

[NSXGMS]

They already have!!! That wooshing sound you hear is Nissan and Toyota passing Honda. Honda has known about the LF-A for years as well as the GTR. This is no surprise. Toyota said from day one what they were going to do and did it. Honda can't commit to anything and has Fukui smoking crack and saying anything that pops into his head with no apparent factual basis. Remember when Acura used to be a premium auto manufacturer? It's become a branch parallel to Honda and not it's luxury division. Similar to what Chevy and Oldsmobile used to be. Acura still makes great cars. They are incredibly reliable and well engineered, but outside of that, what's to like? The LF-A won't be king for long. The new ZR1 will demolish that time for sure.

Well put.

Honda has been aware of everything for a long time. I agree, Fukui seems to say anything that pops into his head and was clearly scared by the F430 in 2003 and is now scared of the GT-R and the LF-A. He throws dates and specs out capriciously and has no respect for tradition. Associating the NSX with that turd ASCC caused me to lose a tremendous amount of respect for him and Honda. Fukui is a stubborn, secretive liar and a marketing failure. He has single-handedly destroyed the legacies of the NSX and S2000 and decimated the F1 program with his ridiculous nepotism and thoughtlessness. Even Honda reliability has been plummeting downwards in recent years. How can the shareholders continue to support him?

The failure of Acura to achieve Lexus brand status isn't all Fukui's fault but he's done nothing to remedy it and he's had lots of time to do so. Acura is no further along than it was after the introduction of the NSX. The S2000 is at the end of the road and Honda has no plans to offer anything appealing, at least to me. The ASCC is so far from reality it's not even on my radar. The most promising development is the constant running of that S2000 mule. What a joke.

By the time Honda does anything (if they do) the LF-A and the GT-R will be on their first update just as Ferrari is getting closer to the F430 update. Nissan and Toyota know this and that's why the GT-R and the LF-A are faster than both the F430 and the 599. If the HSC had been faster than a F430 which would easily have been achieved with a bit more technology (paddle shift, advanced traction control, CF, V-8--all of which they have similar access to like Ferrari does as both their F1 programs had been very successful) they would have been in a very good spot. But Fukui thought he could get away with a six-speed, 3100 lbs and a 350 hp V-6? Of course they had to can the project.

FWIW I think the ZR-1 will be very fast and maybe become the fastest car in the world but I don't see that as competition for the LF-A. The GT-R will be priced $30K+ lower and offer less but comparable performance and the LF-A has the brand and will have a totally different market segment. It's still a luxury car and the ZR-1 is not. That along with the reliability will justify it's higher price. I don't think the ZR-1 will be much of a threat to the LF-A.

 

[BD]

They already have!!! That wooshing sound you hear is Nissan and Toyota passing Honda. Honda has known about the LF-A for years as well as the GTR. This is no surprise. Toyota said from day one what they were going to do and did it. Honda can't commit to anything and has Fukui smoking crack and saying anything that pops into his head with no apparent factual basis. Remember when Acura used to be a premium auto manufacturer? It's become a branch parallel to Honda and not it's luxury division. Similar to what Chevy and Oldsmobile used to be. Acura still makes great cars. They are incredibly reliable and well engineered, but outside of that, what's to like? The LF-A won't be king for long. The new ZR1 will demolish that time for sure.

Again, you said it best, NSX was their "One up car" and in many ways still is. Lots of auto journalist and designers think the NSX is a classic, in class of its own.

Today however, with practically every manufactures out there building exotic/hyper cars, the playing field has changed. Let's put it simple, if HSC was the replacement, Honda would have absolutely no chance to sustain the sales because it is simply a reskin, slightly up powered NSX.

The decision of the direction of this so called NSX replacement will have to be carefully decided, obviously not an easy one. Toyota is doing the LF-A, a FR layout for a reason. The recipe for MR car is actually very simple since introduction of the NSX, but still not a FR car out there had the approach of the NSX (light weight, safe, a good handler, easy to driver, and affordable), perhaps the FR is the correct decision if they can pull it off. If Toyota can pull it off, Honda definitely can. You know why, because Hostorically, even by selling more cars than Honda, Toyota always follow Honda in design trend. Honda built VTEC, Toyota "ask" some one to built they VVTi. Honda goes CART, Toyota join them, Honda goes F1, Toyota jump into the game, etc.

Would you rather have Honda come out with the car first and shadowed by Toyota?

Also, the launch of the next Honda super car will mostly likely to be inline with the launch "Acura" in Japan, you can't have a car ready for that badge and no showroom to sell it.

Any one out there saying stuff such as "Honda let the NSX crowd down for not replacing it sooner" will never buy the car new any way, so they had to choose a different demographic, a new concept to sell the car.

Honda has always been about "value," and they are rather good at it. Toyota on the other hand, was never a power player in sports car market. Many will argue the Supra is their key, but the Supera is not in the exotic class.

Regardless, LF-A will be a good car, like all Toyota cars, but I would not discount Honda just because they didn't do another MR car for us. You can't make the judgement until you can compare the two; as for now, we have nothing to comparing it to.

BTW, if the report is correct, the prototype LF-A is with a 552hp, 4.8 liter engine (115hp/liter), that alone will be a remarkable achievement for Toyota, considering the fact that they never had a 100+hp/liter NA motor without the assistance of the other brand. ie. Toyota Celica VVTI was produce by Yamaha.?

On the other hand, Honda is capable of doing that with almost no effort, almost without trying.

But Toyota and Honda are not exotic car manufactures; NSX as a car, could have been an one shot wonder, to do it again? Well, probably not necessary, but desirable.

 

[Doc C]

Vance,

I agree with everything you say. I just think it was really poor planning on Honda's part and it seems uncharacteristic of them. Obviously, the 599 from Ferrari proves a FR platform can be very well done. Now, the LF-A and GTR as well.
I agree the ZR1 will never be competition for the LF-A. I just meant that that the ZR1 will blow the LF-A out of the water as far as the time at "the ring". People talk badly about the Z06 and ZR1, but it has world class performance for not too bad a price. Someone mentioned the NSX cost approx $100,000 in 2007 dollars when it was introduced. Estimates are saying that's what the ZR1 could cost. People on here who want a world class sports car for $100K don't need to look further.
The LF-A seems to be the real deal. I hope Honda can show us something soon other than the S2000 "limo" roaring around. Happy new year everyone.

 

[Timpo]

The GT-R's 7:38 was done with semi-wet condition.

I'm sure the GT-R would go faster with dry condition.

 

[Silver F16]

...The failure of Acura to achieve Lexus brand status isn't all Fukui's fault but he's done nothing to remedy it ...

Yes Fukui had fixed it by introducing the "ACURA = ADVANCED" marketing hype. That alone will draw more consumers in the showroom to look at cars that have a grill which looks like a Roman solder's shield. :biggrin:

Regarding horsepower, all this discussion about fast time on the ring is out of hand. I don't care if my car is the fastest on ring or not. I simply cannot and will not extract that much performance out of my car, even on a track. Repeat after me, I do not need a 500Hp car. I do not need excess HP to stroke my ego. If that is what you want, then you will pay big bucks for excess engineering for performance that is un-useable on the street. We already have the 1000hp Bugatti. When will it stop folks?

The drive for faster and more power street cars is driven by egos. Whether it is the Ego of the buyer or the manufacturer. I simply want to have the most fun out of my car. For that it is not about all out speed, but it is about a car which provides ultimate feedback and control. It is a concept called FEEL. For I may be slower than a race car, but as long as my car make me feel like a hero every time I step in, that means the world to me for the driving experience. For that, I would be more than satisified with the HSC as the NSX replacement.

 

[WingZ]

Yes Fukui had fixed it by introducing the "ACURA = ADVANCED" marketing hype. That alone will draw more consumers in the showroom to look at cars that have a grill which looks like a Roman solder's shield. :biggrin:

Regarding horsepower, all this discussion about fast time on the ring is out of hand. I don't care if my car is the fastest on ring or not. I simply cannot and will not extract that much performance out of my car, even on a track. Repeat after me, I do not need a 500Hp car. I do not need excess HP to stroke my ego. If that is what you want, then you will pay big bucks for excess engineering for performance that is un-useable on the street. We already have the 1000hp Bugatti. When will it stop folks?

The drive for faster and more power street cars is driven by egos. Whether it is the Ego of the buyer or the manufacturer. I simply want to have the most fun out of my car. For that it is not about all out speed, but it is about a car which provides ultimate feedback and control. It is a concept called FEEL. For I may be slower than a race car, but as long as my car make me feel like a hero every time I step in, that means the world to me for the driving experience. For that, I would be more than satisified with the HSC as the NSX replacement.

+1 You called a lot folks out on this one:biggrin:

 

[Juice]

Actually, his statement here is driven by ego. He wants to be able to "feel like a hero every time he steps in". What a load of poppy-cock. The manufacturers have pride and engineering credibility on the line here. Halo cars should be the best of the best. If that means 9999999bhp or a lap time of 0.36 on the Ring, then that is what it takes to sell a super car. Don't try to bring big business automotive politics down to a pathetic personal level that is ultimately as ego driven as the corporate initiative.

The bar has been raised. That is how you grab headlines. That is where you earn press coverage. That is how you sell cars. Who gives a flying rats ass if your driving skills can live up to the car's capabilities? 99.4% of the time we don't push out sedans there, let alone our precious little rolling status symbols. And yet, these new super cars are building in more techno-wizardry so you can do just that: push your car to new limits with little knowledge of how to best get there.

You want to feel like a hero when you get in your new GT-R. Shut up and try the new launch control with automated shift. Now every dumb ass with over $70 G in financing can feel like a hero.

 

[Silver F16]

Months ago, the new CEO of Volkswagen (who owns Bugatti) said that the 1000hp Veyron project was a poor utilization of engineering resources and that a new project like that would not likely be repeated.

 

[NSXLuvr]

Crazy time. It is really hard to believe that it the car can beat a CGT or a Zonda.

Should be interesting....

 

[pegi]

Must be good :smile: ?

 

[ralfus90]

the thing about the bugatti it was just a markleting ploy they actually sell them at a loss just for the drip down effect being the manufacturer of the worlds fastest car brings....it creates brand loyalty for some stoopid reason and makes ppl buy the next model they offer now audi can affiord that kind of ploy (200k pounds loss on each veyron) i just hope the next nsx lives upto the old one....where the new gtr is an awesome machine and id have one in a n instant i still dont think they did as good a job as with the original....performance wise and possibly handling wise yeh maybe but looks wise?cmon a gun metal grey r32 or r34 is pure visual sex....lol


0.02

 

[NSXrunner]

Did they ever release pics of the LF? Just wondering, most of the ones I see are still the ones covered up. The car so far to me looks really nice. A bit of a F550 shape which looks nice. :smile:

 

[Silver F16]

Your statements regarding raising the bar and grabbing headlines with faster cars around the ring is true but it is not in the Honda spirit to build cars like that. NSX and S2000 were never the fastest nor the most powerful in their class. Yet these 2 vehicles are nenowned for their balance, nimbleness, daily driver reliable practical package. This is what embodies the Honda spirit.

Have you seen the video of Gan San driving a prototype S2000 around the ring back in 1999, when the car was undergoing final shake down. The in-car view showing his speed is amazing. Give me a car with twice that horsepower and I question if I can go around the ring faster than Gan San did on the S2000. Most sports car owners simply cannot exploit the potential of a high powered car. In Honda’s culture, “Manufacturer’s pride” and “engineering advancement” is reflected in building intelligent, purposeful, and efficient cars. These concepts are well reflected in the S2000 and the NSX.

There will be sports car makers who will continue to chase after the fastest and the most powerful. For that, there are 3 camp of owners with some overlap in each category.

• The first camp buys them so they can saviour them as engineering masterpieces and they value the continued heritage the marque brings.

• Second camp will be a very select few who can exploit its full potential on a track and truly enjoy what the car was built to do.

• Then we have the third camp that wears the car like Jewelery so they make a statement to the world about who they are.

There are many that falls in the 3rd camp and the engineering resources spent behind these car is neither treasure, nor used, but only flaunted.

Phil Hill, the nenowed formula 1 racer and now one of the writers on Road and Track wrote several years ago that many cars simply have excessive amount of horsepower and he expressed that manufactures could better allocate their resources elsewhere. With the 35mpg mandating coming in 2020 and decreased CO2 emisson requirement in EU, manufacturers are chasing after efficiency and reduced emissions. In 2011, the new CAFÉ standard begins to phase in with full 35mpg implementation by 2020. With the help of Bosch, the next generation of Ferrari engines will go direct injection to address efficiency and emissions.

Mr. Phil Losee, the owner of many Ferraris and well known in the Ferrari community crashed his Enzo. This is one case of many on how the car’s capability exceeded the talent or the judgement of the driver. While $70K Nissans that can do 0-60 in 3.3 seconds may be a great idea for the wise and trained, in the hands of the many unrestrained and untrained, it becomes a pubic hazard and can make you go from Hero to zero.

Many NSX owners feel like a hero after a drive simply because their car communicates and executes every command with immediacy and accuracy. This experience leaves a bonding experience much like a horse and its rider. What bring one this heroic experience is driving a vehicle that is rich in feedback yet forgiving of uneducated inputs. For this builds driver confidence, allows the driver to be one with the car and dance gracefully on the pavement. Bonding with your car in this manner will make you feel like a hero, even though you know you are not, because there are faster cars and faster drivers. That alone will leave your ego in check and well grounded.

Mr. Fukui pursuit about building a V-10 sports car is very un-Honda like. He is merely jumping on the horsepower bandwagon because someone's Ego may have been bruised because of the constant criticism about the "measly" V6 in the NSX. His direction goes against industry tide as manufacturers gear down for efficency. Time for Mr. Fukui to get grounded and start making sensable sports car in the spirit of the original NSX, the way Soichiro Honda intended.

Actually, his statement here is driven by ego. He wants to be able to "feel like a hero every time he steps in". What a load of poppy-cock. The manufacturers have pride and engineering credibility on the line here. Halo cars should be the best of the best. If that means 9999999bhp or a lap time of 0.36 on the Ring, then that is what it takes to sell a super car. Don't try to bring big business automotive politics down to a pathetic personal level that is ultimately as ego driven as the corporate initiative.

The bar has been raised. That is how you grab headlines. That is where you earn press coverage. That is how you sell cars. Who gives a flying rats ass if your driving skills can live up to the car's capabilities? 99.4% of the time we don't push out sedans there, let alone our precious little rolling status symbols. And yet, these new super cars are building in more techno-wizardry so you can do just that: push your car to new limits with little knowledge of how to best get there.

You want to feel like a hero when you get in your new GT-R. Shut up and try the new launch control with automated shift. Now every dumb ass with over $70 G in financing can feel like a hero.

 

[WingZ]

Your statements regarding raising the bar and grabbing headlines with faster cars around the ring is true but it is not in the Honda spirit to build cars like that. NSX and S2000 were never the fastest nor the most powerful in their class. Yet these 2 vehicles are nenowned for their balance, nimbleness, daily driver reliable practical package. This is what embodies the Honda spirit.

Have you seen the video of Gan San driving a prototype S2000 around the ring back in 1999, when the car was undergoing final shake down. The in-car view showing his speed is amazing. Give me a car with twice that horsepower and I question if I can go around the ring faster than Gan San did on the S2000. Most sports car owners simply cannot exploit the potential of a high powered car. In Honda’s culture, “Manufacturer’s pride” and “engineering advancement” is reflected in building intelligent, purposeful, and efficient cars. These concepts are well reflected in the S2000 and the NSX.

There will be sports car makers who will continue to chase after the fastest and the most powerful. For that, there are 3 camp of owners with some overlap in each category.

• The first camp buys them so they can saviour them as engineering masterpieces and they value the continued heritage the marque brings.

• Second camp will be a very select few who can exploit its full potential on a track and truly enjoy what the car was built to do.

• Then we have the third camp that wears the car like Jewelery so they make a statement to the world about who they are.

There are many that falls in the 3rd camp and the engineering resources spent behind these car is neither treasure, nor used, but only flaunted.

Phil Hill, the nenowed formula 1 racer and now one of the writers on Road and Track wrote several years ago that many cars simply have excessive amount of horsepower and he expressed that manufactures could better allocate their resources elsewhere. With the 35mpg mandating coming in 2020 and decreased CO2 emisson requirement in EU, manufacturers are chasing after efficiency and reduced emissions. In 2011, the new CAFÉ standard begins to phase in with full 35mpg implementation by 2020. With the help of Bosch, the next generation of Ferrari engines will go direct injection to address efficiency and emissions.

Mr. Phil Losee, the owner of many Ferraris and well known in the Ferrari community crashed his Enzo. This is one case of many on how the car’s capability exceeded the talent or the judgement of the driver. While $70K Nissans that can do 0-60 in 3.3 seconds may be a great idea for the wise and trained, in the hands of the many unrestrained and untrained, it becomes a pubic hazard and can make you go from Hero to zero.

Many NSX owners feel like a hero after a drive simply because their car communicates and executes every command with immediacy and accuracy. This experience leaves a bonding experience much like a horse and its rider. What bring one this heroic experience is driving a vehicle that is rich in feedback yet forgiving of uneducated inputs. For this builds driver confidence, allows the driver to be one with the car and dance gracefully on the pavement. Bonding with your car in this manner will make you feel like a hero, even though you know you are not, because there are faster cars and faster drivers. That alone will leave your ego in check and well grounded.

Mr. Fukui pursuit about building a V-10 sports car is very un-Honda like. He is merely jumping on the horsepower bandwagon because someone's Ego may have been bruised because of the constant criticism about the "measly" V6 in the NSX. His direction goes against industry tide as manufacturers gear down for efficency. Time for Mr. Fukui to get grounded and start making sensable sports car in the spirit of the original NSX, the way Soichiro Honda intended.

Great speech bro ,but people here won't listen. I've never understood that about so called life long Honda fans. Honda has never been high hp yet they b*tch about hondas never having enough hp. The NSX wasn't as powerful as the 348 or ZR1 back in the day so why are so many of these guys screaming for it to be equal or more powerful now

I don't understand why they're NSX fans in the first place. It was faster than other cars , but never out powered them. I always thought and actually fell in love with Hondas because they are so much fun w/o being all that powerful. They love it when you beat on them yet still give you good fuel economy and reliability. That's kinda what makes them Honda isn't it?

 

[NSXGMS]

Mr. Fukui pursuit about building a V-10 sports car is very un-Honda like. He is merely jumping on the horsepower bandwagon because someone's Ego may have been bruised because of the constant criticism about the "measly" V6 in the NSX. His direction goes against industry tide as manufacturers gear down for efficency. Time for Mr. Fukui to get grounded and start making sensable sports car in the spirit of the original NSX, the way Soichiro Honda intended.

I agree with this. My personal view is that hp is getting excessive and dangerous and the hp side of it never was that important to Honda or important to me. Fukui's statements about a V-10 just reinforce how out of touch he is with Soichiro's philosophy.

Hp is very important but only in the sense that it contributes to overall performance. True, the NSX was never the fastest car in the world but it was faster than the benchmark car at the time--the F348. And the NA2 NSX was arguably equal to the F355. IMO that is a crucial point. The NSX replacement must be competitive with the benchmark. If it's MR, that would be the F430. If it's FE it appears that will be the GT-R or the 599 GTB. Not necessarily faster than these cars, but certainly within spitting distance. If it can accomplish that with 200 hp I'd be happy.

A V-10 isn't the answer but a V-8 might be. Why Honda fails to build this engine just baffles me to no end. Everyone else has one--clearly it's not a fad. A Honda 4.0L V-8 could easily produce 450 hp--plenty to compete with the GT-R or F430. With Honda's resources they could really maximize that power. And it would have less hp that every other car in its class. And in the case of the 599 GTB over 150 hp less!

So hp is important but not the main issue. One of the biggest complaints about the HSC was that the proposed engine could possibly be a 3.5L V-6 with less than 350 hp. I think we all agree that there was room to go up without compromising Honda's philosophy. And many, many here have suggested that it was a huge mistake on Honda's part not to offer the CTSC as a factory option. That would have given the NA2 NSX well over 350 hp. Clearly by the time of the HSC's introduction even more was needed just to be competitive.

A lot of weight is given to things like reliability, comfort and ease of use--all of which the NSX has. But performance is equally important. Not just power or straight line speed. It really does matter how fast you can get around the track. You don't have to be the fastest and you don't have to sacrifice feeling like a hero to get it (like one does in the Z06 where only a master can pilot it to the top of the time sheets) but you do have to be in the ballpark. Honda can surely design a car that can put up comparable 'ring times and still provide feedback, limit mistakes and makes you feel like a hero.