Let's Put Together a NSX

[ChopsJazz]

Lud has some great advice suspension-wise (and about the intake). I'd do the standard spring/shock/sway bar mods and spend the savings on that 6-speed. And, like James suggested, there are bound to be a lot of aftermarket parts available at a reduced price.
As for the New NSX speculation. It's just that. Speculation. $50K? I wish!!! I don't know what to think about any of it. I'll just have to wait like everybody else.

 

[M5150]

will u sell it for.......*checks his wallet*......40$?

------------------
me want NSX, me 16 (no license yet), me no have NSX =( but me do 3d art http://members.home.com/mcudich

 

[Coz]

Lud, Thanks for getting involved.
#1 I could say one way or another asd I don't know.
#2 I read this about the CT SC and Jim at Comptech told me the same thing.
#3 It makes sense on this issue
#4 I have talked to another poster, he has a car that has a Comptech SC and also has the extended through Acura.
#5 RM I know does not make the gears or pinion. He resells them. I was referring to whon I would get them from. Comptech also has them, but they get almost twice as much money, from what your saying, for the same thing.
#6 Agreed. Have researched this throughly.
#7 Thanks for the tip. No point in over kill or throwing away money if not necessary.
#8 Not going to race the car, but will drive it hard and attend a school or two and probably turns some laps in a non competitive way.
# 9 & 10 I am just a passenger. )
Thanks Lud, appreciate the feedback....

Originally posted by Lud:
There is a lot of speculation going on here. To clear up a few misunderstandings and answer a few questions I've seen in the thread:

1. The '97+ block is the same as the '91-'96.

2. To date there are no NSX engine failures attributed to the CT supercharger kit.

3. If you are concerned about bang-for-the-buck, a $700 CF intake is not worthwhile. They look and sound cool but the performance difference, if any, is negligable esp. relative to the price vs. the cheaper ones or probably even vs. stock. The NSX does not suffer from a huge intake inefficiency like some cars.

4. If you are talking about heavily modifying the car, an extended warranty is useless for drivetrain components.

5. There is no "RM Racing" Ring & Pinion set. There is only the Honda NSX-R 4.23 and the Comptech 4.55. RM resells the Honda NSX-R one (as does Dali). Comptech sells both I believe.

6. I would expect to pay at least $55k for any well maintained '97 in good condition unless it was high miles.

7. The CT adjustable suspension kit is probably overkill unless you track the car a lot. Most people will be perfectly happy with standard Koni/Bilstein & Eibach/H&R/etc. setup for hundreds less. Get the sway bars with the difference in $ and you'll probably be happier.

8. A '97+ -T will do fine on a road course for "fun" use. I wouldn't buy one to build a race car, but they are more than adequate for people who go to the track for non-competitive events like drivers schools.

9. Khuang - How did this guy rack up an extra $28k in mods with just over half that in extra parts cost? Even if you allocate $2500 more for the suspension, $5k more for the full big brakes vs. front-only, $3k more for the 6-speed vs. rebuilding 5-speed w/ short gears/R&P, $3500 for a second set of wheels, $1000 for a harness bar kit you're only up to around $15k additional cost. Either there are more mods not listed or those must be some expensive racing seats he installed...

10. "Contacts at Acura" and "sources" at "tuning shops" translate to: people who read the same rumors in the automotive press as the rest of us. None of these people has the true inside on the next NSX. There are a lot of reasonable assumptions that can be made about the next gen NSX... but they are just assumptions at this point.

 

[Lud]

Originally posted by David:
I hate to be nit-picky, but the 3.2 block is not the same as the 3.0 block. With the earlier block, you can easily press in ductile cylinder liners (a good idea with forced induction or NOS), but the later block uses a 'crystaline' forging method similar to Porsches, which makes it difficult to do this.

You are right, but IMO the basic block design is the same, it just has a slightly larger bore and different cylinder liners. I don't really consider that a different design, especially in the original context of:

I don't know how strong the engine internals are in the 91-95's comapred to the 97+

In fact the 3.2 versions actually have some slightly strengthened "internals" vs. the original 3.0 (though not the block itself).

Just my take... if anyone differs, I won't be offended

 

[Lud]

Originally posted by Cozman:
#4 I have talked to another poster, he has a car that has a Comptech SC and also has the extended through Acura.

Yes, and the Acura warranties (both the original factory and extended warranties) SPECIFICALLY state that damage caused by modification is not covered!

This is true of factory warranties for any car I know of that is sold in the US. The same is also true of all the aftermarket extended warranties I'm aware from from reputable companies (i.e. ones that actually intend to pay a valid claim).

This is a big deal and many if not most people are confused about it... and to be honest that is partly Comptech's fault. I like Comptech and their products, but I really feel they have misled many people on this point. But lots of aftermarket companies do the same thing. The good news is that Comptech's parts don't lead to drivetrain failues so it hasn't really been an issue...

This is covered in depth in the FAQ.
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Performance/warranty.htm

The only thing that's even close to an exception is that some Acura dealers who are also Comptech resellers state that they will cover any failure from the Comptech parts they install. But this is entirely a dealer-specific agreement and has nothing to do with Acura / American Honda. And I'd make sure I got it in writing...

 

[Coz]

Interesting. If this be the case, SC-ing a motor would cause the warranty to be viod regardless who issed it. And you know the makers of any SC unit are not going to fix any internal motor problems that are caused because of their SC-er.

Wish Acura would hurry up and release the new one, if there is one...

This is covered in depth in the FAQ.
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Performance/warranty.htm

The only thing that's even close to an exception is that some Acura dealers who are also Comptech resellers state that they will cover any failure from the Comptech parts they install. But this is entirely a dealer-specific agreement and has nothing to do with Acura / American Honda. And I'd make sure I got it in writing...[/B][/QUOTE]

 

[Khuang]

Originally posted by Lud:
Yes, and the Acura warranties (both the original factory and extended warranties) SPECIFICALLY state that damage caused by modification is not covered!

At the Acura dealership here, we have brand new Integras having Comptech components, does that void their warranty? I doubt it, imagine buying a brand new car without warranty from the Acura dealership!

I was under the understanding Comptech parts are all under warranty just as TRD and Saleen parts. Afterall Acura dealership are putting in Comptech SC for you.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Lud:

Yes, and the Acura warranties (both the original factory and extended warranties) SPECIFICALLY state that damage caused by modification is not covered!

At the Acura dealership here, we have brand new Integras having Comptech components, does that void their warranty? I doubt it, imagine buying a brand new car without warranty from the Acura dealership!

If you would read the FAQ that Lud refers you to, you will realize that the entire warranty is not invalidated.

The fact is, you can have Comptech or other aftermarket components installed, and the original car's warranty is still in effect. However, there is an exclusion in that warranty for damage caused by aftermarket equipment. For example, if you put a supercharger on your car, the warranty is still valid if, say, your stereo craps out. And the supercharger itself has a warranty from Comptech. But if your transmission fails, such a failure COULD be caused by the supercharger (if the transmission was not designed to handle the additional power), in which case it would not be covered by the warranty.

Basically, by installing aftermarket equipment, you are opening the door to such arguments in the event of a failure. You may find that Acura will cover a failure anyway. Or you may find that they refuse partial or complete coverage, or you may get into an extended (and possibly contentious) negotiation with them on whether or not a failure is caused by the aftermarket mod. Perhaps you don't expect such a failure (as Lud indicated) or you think your dealer will cover you even if Acura doesn't. In any case, it's something to be aware of.

 

[Lud]

Originally posted by Khuang:
At the Acura dealership here, we have brand new Integras having Comptech components, does that void their warranty? I doubt it, imagine buying a brand new car without warranty from the Acura dealership!

This is the heart of the very common misunderstanding - as nsxtasy said, it does not "void the warranty."

It also does not "void the warranty" if you drive it 30,000 miles without changing the oil. You still have the warranty. BUT the factory is certaily not going to pay for your repair in such a case because the car was misused and improperly maintained. The warranty specifically excludes damage attribted to modifications, misuse, use in competition, etc. If you open your owners manual you can read it for yourself.

I was under the understanding Comptech parts are all under warranty just as TRD and Saleen parts.

That is an incorrect understanding, and unfortunately one that Comptech has helped perpetuate. They say you will not void your warranty with their products and technically this is correct, because the factory warranty already excludes damage attributed to those products. So you don't void the warranty, the warranty simply does not cover such damages. But most people take "will not void the warranty" to mean that American Honda will willingly and knowingly pay for the repairs if one of Comptech's products causes an engine failure, which is not true.

Afterall Acura dealership are putting in Comptech SC for you.

Yes, the DEALERSHIPS are installing them. The factory does not. That is the key difference!

I am not going to argue the point. If anyone does not believe me, please call Acura customer service and ask if powertrain damage attributed to a Comptech supercharger will be repaired at no cost under the Acura factory or extended warranty program before continuing this thread.

 

[Coz]

I did read the link. And I have learned over many years that grey area's are the ones that usally bit you in the butt.

Not to be a smart A**, but knowing that if my motor craps out my Stereo would still be covered under warranty while I sit in the car parked in my garage does not make me feel better.

Not trying to be a jerk, honest.

If you would read the FAQ that Lud refers you to, you will realize that the entire warranty is not invalidated.

The fact is, you can have Comptech or other aftermarket components installed, and the original car's warranty is still in effect. However, there is an exclusion in that warranty for damage caused by aftermarket equipment. For example, if you put a supercharger on your car, the warranty is still valid if, say, your stereo craps out.

 

[David]

Originally posted by Lud:
In fact the 3.2 versions actually have some slightly strengthened "internals" vs. the original 3.0 (though not the block itself).

Just my take... if anyone differs, I won't be offended

Lud,

I do not disagree with you. I believe that the stock 3.2 motor may be a bit more durable than the stock 3.0 motor. I just want to point out that it is actually easier to make the 3.0 motor really strong (and more suitable for forced induction or NOS) than it is to modify the 3.2 motor. The only real difference is in the ability to press in new cylinder liners. There is no differnece if you just want to deck it and drop in better pistions.

[This message has been edited by David (edited 19 January 2001).]

 

[Khuang]

So the Comptech components are like every other aftermarket components. The factory has to prove that the damage was caused by the aftermarket component. I am just curious, how can the factory prove the transmission damage due to Comptech Supercharger? They really can't as stock transmission blow up with stock power. I do think some supercharger has the capability of blowing up the motor by leaning it out.

Anyway this argument is meaningless as no one has every blow up anything.

I am not going to argue the point. If anyone does not believe me, please call Acura customer service and ask if powertrain damage attributed to a Comptech supercharger will be repaired at no cost under the Acura factory or extended warranty program before continuing this thread.[/B][/QUOTE]

 

[bluesaint]

BBw guys. we can stop speculating the $50k range for the new nsx =)
From Cars and Driver magazine.
http://www.vtec.net/news/items/579.html

its gonna be around $143k instead of 50k =)

 

[Khuang]

its gonna be around $143k instead of 50k

I can't imagine it being $143K. For $143K from Honda, I would want a 5.0 L or larger V12 making 500+ hp. If you think the sales are slow now, imagine with a $143K price tag. What is the second most expensive japanese car, LS430?? @upper 60's.

 

[Lud]

Originally posted by Khuang:
The factory has to prove that the damage was caused by the aftermarket component.

You didn't call Acura like I asked, did you?

Let me put it another way. I know for a fact that American Honda has refused to pay for the repair of multiple blown NSX engines where the car was still under warranty because the cars were lightly modified.

To give some examples of how minor a mod can be to cause a warranty repair to be denied, I am talking about something as simple as aftermarket air filter in one case and aftermarket tires in another case. Yes, tires. Both NSXs had trashed engines and the cars were under warranty, but Honda refused to pay based on those "minor" mods. Was Honda right to deny those warranty claims? That's an entirely different thread. The point is: the owners were stuck with the bill.

Honda doesn't have to prove anything to deny the claim, they just have to decide to deny it. The only time they have to prove anything is if you can afford to fight them in court at a cost that will probably dwarf any NSX repair bill.

Here is how it really works. The factory service rep makes a determination on whether to cover repair on a modified car under warranty based on the case.

If the case is that you installed a shift knob and your differential blew up, they would certainly cover it. If the case is that you blew an engine on a supercharged car, I can guarantee that they would not. In fact if you install sway bars and A032R tires and suffer oil starvation and blow your engine, they will not pay.

Can you lie and/or put the car back to stock to get it covered? Sure, it's called fraud, the same as if you burn down a building to collect the insurance.

Can you fight them in court? You can try, but when you arguing this case in front of a judge or jury you are going to have your opinion vs. their enormous amounts engineering data and expert testimony and testing showing that the parts were designed to work in a specific way, under specific loads, etc.

They are very unlikely to settle such a case because 1) they konw know they have the upper hand and 2) they know it will cost you more to fight them than to pay the repair and 3) it would set a very bad precident.

I am not trying to say "don't modify your car" - I have owned two heavily modified NSXs and the current one is still under the original factory warranty. But I also want to make sure anyone else doing so goes into it with a proper understanding of the full implications of modifying a warrantied car.

Again, I refer anyone interested to the Acura customer service department. This is my last post on the topic.

 

[nsxtasy]

This last post from Lud implies that Honda fights NSX warranty claims tooth and nail in the case of modified cars. That is not always the case, and in fact in many cases they are quite liberal in their willingness to provide full or partial warranty coverage, as you can read in the "warranty" section of the FAQ (see link above).

Still, the warranty does contain an exclusion against damage caused by the mods, and as Lud describes well, if Honda does decide to deny coverage, it may be difficult for you to fight that decision.

 

[Coz]

And a GREAT one it was....nothing but the facts.

This is my last post on the topic.[/B][/QUOTE]

 

[Khuang]

When did tires become a mod? How do you blow a NSX engine with lightly modified parts? Look like that Acura dealership is a pain in the butt. Just my opinion

Let me put it another way. I know for a fact that American Honda has refused to pay for the repair of multiple blown NSX engines where the car was still under warranty because the cars were lightly modified.

To give some examples of how minor a mod can be to cause a warranty repair to be denied, I am talking about something as simple as aftermarket air filter in one case and aftermarket tires in another case.

 

[Lud]

OK, I lied, that wasn't my last post - after reading nsxtasy's message I just want to clear up / emphasize that I was not trying to say Honda goes out of their way to deny warranty coverage on modified cars. Only that they can and have denied claims if they think a failure is due to a mod, even a "minor" mod. As nsxtasy said Honda is pretty good about stuff like that and goodwilling out-of-warranty work, etc. within reason.

P.S. Tires are a "mod" according to Honda because R compound tires allow you to maintain lateral g-forces beyond the original design spec and may be a contributing factor in oil starvation in such a situation. Ask Mark @ Dali Racing where the idea for his extra-capacity oil pan came from...

P.P.S. It's not "a dealer" that denies such claims, it is American Honda telling the dealer to deny them.

 

[David]

Again, it comes down to dealer attitude. If your dealer is a customer friendly shop that values performance-oriented customers, you will not have problems. If your car breaks and they do not believe it is DIRECTLY related to your mods, they will not let Acura know about the mods when they file the warranty claim and there is no hassle. It's not fraud, its just the dealer making a common-sense judgement call to prevent one of their customers from getting hassled. Federal law governing auto warranties specifically covers cases like this and says the modifications have to have a clear, direct relationship to the damage for warranty coverage to be denied.

You never know how it is going to work. I know a guy Dallas who got his F50 engine warrantied (fully replaced) by Ferrari even though he had twin-turbos and was running methonal. Depends on the dealership.

 

[dswartz]

Cozman, here's my 2 cents.

I think everyone is overlooking the fact that a purely stock NSX is fast and fun with no modifications. Furthermore, unless your doing a Supercharger, Turbo, or NOS the results of other mods are not significant. I put CT Intake, Headers, Exhaust, Test Pipes (no cats), and street/track clutch on my 98 coupe. Results? I went from consistent 13.0 @ 106 to 12.8 @ 109 at the drag strip. While this is significant in drag racing, it is unnoticeable on the street Furthermore, at autocross events, I believe that I sacrificed low end torque and actually lost some performance. At time trial events, it made no difference.

If I had it to do over, I would definitely go for the 97+ due to the extreme amount of upgrades that Honda did from 96 to 97 (see FAQ). I would then limit modification to looks and sound. For looks, I would lower the car and change the wheels. For sound I would use an Intake and exhaust only (97+ come with stainless steel shorty headers that produce more low end torque then CT Headers.) This would, for the most part preserve any warranty issues, minimize my investment, and provide all of the fun (reliability, performance, looks, and status) that I need. Down the road, if I became bored, I would do a supercharger and add the Headers to improve breathing.

Unless, of course, you just like modifying a car for fun. However, if you’re a driver type, like me, fun is reliability, performance, looks, and status. All of which a stock NSX of any year can provide.

 

[Coz]

This makes absolute sense to me. Spend the money on the newer car, mod the car for looks and sound and as you say, when it get boring, add the super charger.

In this way, mods should not cause a warranty issue for the time being.

Thank you. I have been leaning towards a 97 if I am going to buy an NSX. Just have to bite the bullet and deal with the increase of the payment.

If I had it to do over, I would definitely go for the 97+ due to the extreme amount of upgrades that Honda did from 96 to 97 (see FAQ). I would then limit modification to looks and sound. For looks, I would lower the car and change the wheels. For sound I would use an Intake and exhaust only (97+ come with stainless steel shorty headers that produce more low end torque then CT Headers.) This would, for the most part preserve any warranty issues, minimize my investment, and provide all of the fun (reliability, performance, looks, and status) that I need. Down the road, if I became bored, I would do a supercharger and add the Headers to improve breathing.

Unless, of course, you just like modifying a car for fun. However, if you’re a driver type, like me, fun is reliability, performance, looks, and status. All of which a stock NSX of any year can provide.[/B][/QUOTE]

 

[NSXBat]

BlueSaint and Khaung:
can stop speculating the $50k range for the new nsx =)From Cars and Driver magazine. $143k

Don't get thrown off track. The 2002 and 2003 Will be perfect mule chassis (test car) to test out the new bigger V-8 motor before the all new 2004 new car comes out. Honda needs a way to create new interest in 02 & 03 as people get excited about 2004 so a few changes to the trim & look of the car had always been planned. Add to that the sneak peek at the new V-8 block and you have a great business strategy ..to create interest during a model change over, while reaping the benefit of a real world engine test. So understanding that the only way Honda can keep NSX alive, from an economic point of view, is to sell more cars, and the only way to do that is with lower price. They already have the worlds best car. So you can bet 2004 will be V-8 and cheaper heavier steel body... to allow for a $55k price tag and Honda can sell 5000 units a year. The fastest NSX's will always be the 2002 and 03 with the combination of a V-8 and aluminum body and it will satisfy the market of collectors that can afford it.

But don't be fooled the name of the game with 2004 is volume of units sold.. .and using factor capacity. The NSX has never turned a profit for Honda (our gain). But going to a $143k car long term would not solve Honda's problem… Volume. Look for a 55k NSX in 04.

Or explain a better long term strategy if you where an executive at Honda (not Ferrari). I'd love to hear one?

 

[nsxtasy]

Federal law governing auto warranties specifically covers cases like this and says the modifications have to have a clear, direct relationship to the damage for warranty coverage to be denied.

Absolutely, positively FALSE.

Can you provide a reliable reference for your statement, please?