LED's flickering?
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
- Start date
Here is my email from autolumination.com:
"I would love to be able to tell you our 194 6-leds will outperform those you have had from superbrightleds, but in this specific instance, that is not true. All leds used in close proximity to a headlight bulb will suffer the same fate as those you have had in there before. No led can tolerate the ambient heat emitted in that type of environment. It does not matter who makes them...this is the case with any led at all. Internal led circuitry may be different from company to company, but no technology gets around that particular problem.
My suggestion would be to use a xenon bulb. That would give you a close match to the blue white color of a super white led, but they are not as sensitive to the headlight heat so that problem won't recur."
"I would love to be able to tell you our 194 6-leds will outperform those you have had from superbrightleds, but in this specific instance, that is not true. All leds used in close proximity to a headlight bulb will suffer the same fate as those you have had in there before. No led can tolerate the ambient heat emitted in that type of environment. It does not matter who makes them...this is the case with any led at all. Internal led circuitry may be different from company to company, but no technology gets around that particular problem.
My suggestion would be to use a xenon bulb. That would give you a close match to the blue white color of a super white led, but they are not as sensitive to the headlight heat so that problem won't recur."
Decent response from autoillumination endorsing the opinion of their competitor.
Yes heat is a big killer. Some can even be killed when soldering them in when some rookies are making custom jobs.
Just a reference, I've had my WLED6's from superbright for > 18 months now & still perfect. Let's make sure evryone is aware this is a problem with 02+ style lights, not the pre 02's.
If there's flickering on a pre 02 combo light, I would suspect either the contact in the holder or a low battery voltage (does it improve with motor running)
Yes heat is a big killer. Some can even be killed when soldering them in when some rookies are making custom jobs.
Just a reference, I've had my WLED6's from superbright for > 18 months now & still perfect. Let's make sure evryone is aware this is a problem with 02+ style lights, not the pre 02's.
If there's flickering on a pre 02 combo light, I would suspect either the contact in the holder or a low battery voltage (does it improve with motor running)
Have you guys thse 194 LED bulbs that use a single high intensity LED?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/194-...tegoryZ33713QQihZ005QQitemZ150015895302QQrdZ1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/194-...tegoryZ33713QQihZ005QQitemZ150015895302QQrdZ1
D'Ecosse said:
Yes, a kind response indeed. My WLED6's are used in a 91, as a parking light bulb. Battery voltage is fine, all other lights including the WLED6 on the other light is fine.
And just to add salt to the wound, I just ordered 4 more of these. My original one has lasted a year. I suspect it is an issue with heat, but quality as well. Who know, I may get lucky and get a good one that lasts.
:biggrin:Hugh said:
Nope, but that is probably a good alternative. Great find, and I see nothing like it in that intensity on the superbrightled website. Autolumination does have these bulbs known as the superstar 194.
And yet another technical response from the fine folks at autolumination:
Led failure is caused by excess heat. This can be from ambient heat, or from voltage variaiton. I cannot be sure exactly what is causing the failure, but if the bulb is not being heated above 150 F by the headlights or engine, then it is likely a voltage issue.
Some vehicles have issues with the alternator, or voltage regulator that pulses too much AC current into the circuits. This is usually due to internal diodes that have burned out inside the units. It normally goes undetected and will not be checked/detected by the average auto mechanic.
This does not harm regular light bulbs, but it can damage electronics, including leds.
It is hard to detect by anyone other than a highly trained electrical engineer. Most mechanics are not trained to understand how to test for this, because it does not effect most of the electrical gadgets in the car and is seldom identified as a problem until an electronic light bulb is plugged into the circuit. Then the issue becomes more apparent asa you can see the led lighty failing.
Our 5led matrix style bulbs have a current regulator built in that will reduce this failure mode.
You may want to try these 5led bulbs and see how they work for you.
Led failure is caused by excess heat. This can be from ambient heat, or from voltage variaiton. I cannot be sure exactly what is causing the failure, but if the bulb is not being heated above 150 F by the headlights or engine, then it is likely a voltage issue.
Some vehicles have issues with the alternator, or voltage regulator that pulses too much AC current into the circuits. This is usually due to internal diodes that have burned out inside the units. It normally goes undetected and will not be checked/detected by the average auto mechanic.
This does not harm regular light bulbs, but it can damage electronics, including leds.
It is hard to detect by anyone other than a highly trained electrical engineer. Most mechanics are not trained to understand how to test for this, because it does not effect most of the electrical gadgets in the car and is seldom identified as a problem until an electronic light bulb is plugged into the circuit. Then the issue becomes more apparent asa you can see the led lighty failing.
Our 5led matrix style bulbs have a current regulator built in that will reduce this failure mode.
You may want to try these 5led bulbs and see how they work for you.
First they state "High temperatures"? Then: "No? Oh, must be your car then...No? it must be ALL of your cars voltage system."
This this does not pass the "What is most likely" test.
I outfitted my 91 with the LEDS, one has failed the other has not. Production variance: but is it QA or out of spec application?
What is the test procedure please?
What are the tolerances of their product?
I'm sure one of us can scare up some test equipment. This is just smoke and mirrors without stated tolerances....since they are not providing specific values: I'm pronouncing their response as disingenuous.
.
Drew
/I'm calling bogus, or more appropriately: failure to back there product.
//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor
This this does not pass the "What is most likely" test.
I outfitted my 91 with the LEDS, one has failed the other has not. Production variance: but is it QA or out of spec application?
What is the test procedure please?
What are the tolerances of their product?
I'm sure one of us can scare up some test equipment. This is just smoke and mirrors without stated tolerances....since they are not providing specific values: I'm pronouncing their response as disingenuous.
.
Drew
/I'm calling bogus, or more appropriately: failure to back there product.
//http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor
Considering the guys at autolumination are troubleshooting a product from superbrightleds.com, I would give them some leverage here.
I think the folks at autolumination are simply stating that it might be electrical. They gave me/us another possibility aside from the "heat theory" given by superbrightleds.
I think the folks at autolumination are simply stating that it might be electrical. They gave me/us another possibility aside from the "heat theory" given by superbrightleds.
I don't think they're snowing you at all - giving quite credible answers.
It is true that the Leds will be much more susceptible to voltage spikes than incandescents.
When sizing the current limit resistors for LEDs the manufacturer tries to keep at max current for peak light intensity & selects a resistor based on what they expect the 'typical' peak voltage would be. Now the NSX actually runs quite a high voltage off alternator relative to a lot of other cars.
One thing you could try is to add a regulator to each circuit - since these are extremely low current even a simple resistor (in series) followed by a shunt zener would ensure the voltage to the LEDs is clamped.
You could also just consider an integrated regulator - these are actually cheaper than the bulbs! (~ $1.59)
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062600
If you want you can run a single wire off the output of a single device to both lamps there is plenty of current available through a single device for both.
Actually a 12V regulator barely has enough overhead to work on so you might also consider a variable device configured for 11.25V - that will be barely noticeable in the intensity but offer even greater protection for the LED bulbs
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062601 - just needs a couple of resistors in addition to the three pin device - only slightly more complex to install. The resistors have been selected to configure for 11.25V output.
Either solution only costs pennies and again, much cheaper than replacing lamps, even once. Should improve your reliability dramatically.
It is true that the Leds will be much more susceptible to voltage spikes than incandescents.
When sizing the current limit resistors for LEDs the manufacturer tries to keep at max current for peak light intensity & selects a resistor based on what they expect the 'typical' peak voltage would be. Now the NSX actually runs quite a high voltage off alternator relative to a lot of other cars.
One thing you could try is to add a regulator to each circuit - since these are extremely low current even a simple resistor (in series) followed by a shunt zener would ensure the voltage to the LEDs is clamped.
You could also just consider an integrated regulator - these are actually cheaper than the bulbs! (~ $1.59)
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062600
If you want you can run a single wire off the output of a single device to both lamps there is plenty of current available through a single device for both.
Actually a 12V regulator barely has enough overhead to work on so you might also consider a variable device configured for 11.25V - that will be barely noticeable in the intensity but offer even greater protection for the LED bulbs
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062601 - just needs a couple of resistors in addition to the three pin device - only slightly more complex to install. The resistors have been selected to configure for 11.25V output.
Either solution only costs pennies and again, much cheaper than replacing lamps, even once. Should improve your reliability dramatically.
Attachments
OK, within these few months, I have had 3 more LEDs fail. Am I just having bad luck? this is problematic. Anyone else have their LED's fail?
D'Eccose thanks for the diagram, but I am not sure I want to be doing this extra work... there must be a plug and play LED lamp out there with a longer life. I tap on one now and it gos on and off... all I bought from superbrightleds.com
D'Eccose thanks for the diagram, but I am not sure I want to be doing this extra work... there must be a plug and play LED lamp out there with a longer life. I tap on one now and it gos on and off... all I bought from superbrightleds.com
Like many, I replaced everything with LED's for lower current draw and better reliability.
So far, the only ones I seem to have any issues with are the accent laps in the 02+ style head lights. I'm on my fourth set, and regardless of vendor the multi-led 194's just doesn't seem to last very long. Failures usually start with flickering, or one or more LED's failing; eventually total death.
Initally I too thought they were just POS from Tawain, but many sets later I too now believe the suspect is the heat generated within the housings, as every other one from tail lights to interior does just fine, lasting for years.
I just order a few spares.
I see the concern thou.. did someone get a DNF at a club lunch?... :biggrin:
So far, the only ones I seem to have any issues with are the accent laps in the 02+ style head lights. I'm on my fourth set, and regardless of vendor the multi-led 194's just doesn't seem to last very long. Failures usually start with flickering, or one or more LED's failing; eventually total death.
Initally I too thought they were just POS from Tawain, but many sets later I too now believe the suspect is the heat generated within the housings, as every other one from tail lights to interior does just fine, lasting for years.
I just order a few spares.
I see the concern thou.. did someone get a DNF at a club lunch?... :biggrin:
- Joined
- 18 July 2005
- Messages
- 2,636
TURBO2GO said:
Exact same thing happened to me. I think heat is the culprit...
It sucks because they sure look cool.. I guess I just have to buy a ton of spares... but my interior ones failing.... thats not heat related. I will get a few spares and just replace them I guess. I just was wondering if the quality from superbrightleds was bad in particular. The ones in my rear license plate? No problem at all....
I replaced my parking lights, licence plate lights, and all interior lights with LED's from superbrightleds.com about a month ago. This morning, I noticed my front right parking light flickering. I checked all my lights and noticed that one licence plate light is out. After a few hours, I checked the lights again. Front right parking light is ok, but the left front parking light is flickering.
I'll check the connections later...but I'm betting that their QA/QC is not great...
I'll check the connections later...but I'm betting that their QA/QC is not great...
Last edited:
I put in Razo premium white wedge bulbs after my LED's started flickering. They're bright and work perfectly. :wink:
TURBO2GO said:
I got mine from a japanese mini mall that is local to me. I found them on google here for you.
http://www.optionsauto.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CM-BH104
- Joined
- 18 July 2005
- Messages
- 2,636
I just ordered a new set of WLED 5's. Once I get them in I'll see how long they last and report back.
The WLED 5's don't have the disclaimer by them declaring how sensitive to heat they are so I'm hoping they will last longer.
The WLED 5's don't have the disclaimer by them declaring how sensitive to heat they are so I'm hoping they will last longer.
I too have replaced the interior and the front parking with LED's from superbright about a year ago.
Only one failure on the parking light, only 3 of the 6 lights worked. So i replaced it and noticed the new ones is more blue and brighter then the old one.
I also bought the new 9 leds for the interior. I didn't like it at all. It is not as bright and whilte as the 4 leds ones and it didn't fit too well.
Oh well, another $20 down the drain.
Only one failure on the parking light, only 3 of the 6 lights worked. So i replaced it and noticed the new ones is more blue and brighter then the old one.
I also bought the new 9 leds for the interior. I didn't like it at all. It is not as bright and whilte as the 4 leds ones and it didn't fit too well.
Oh well, another $20 down the drain.
I had the same problem. Emailed superbrightleds, but they wouldn't return my emails. I ordered three more, and everything is good again.....don't think it is a loose connection b/c the new ones work fine.
So do we have a solid vendor and result to solve this issue?
I had superbrightled for 6 month and 1 is gone, the other flicker's like crazy, try to contact them today and got no response.
suggestions?
I had superbrightled for 6 month and 1 is gone, the other flicker's like crazy, try to contact them today and got no response.
suggestions?
- Joined
- 18 July 2005
- Messages
- 2,636
Ha, the WLED 5's failed in my headlights. Also, my trunk LED's burnt out, and the parking light LED's I have on my QX4 are also done for.
What a piss poor LED.
I'm not buying from them anymore.
What a piss poor LED.
I'm not buying from them anymore.
