Leather Massage

[Bricks and Bio]

http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/BTS160801.PDF

Thanks again to EE4Life

So Acura has failed at getting perfect cars to customers.

They make us wait and they still didn't get it right.

It looks like the stupid shipping materials on the center console results in the leather creasing.

The techs now need to message the leather to address this.

If they just shipped the cars in a ready to drive mode this would be avoided. The cars are generally going right to customers so no PDI is needed.

The car leaves the factory, goes to the dealer on a truck and then into the dealership.

 

[tucsonsx]

http://www.urvi.net/forumfiles/SB/BTS160801.PDF

Thanks again to EE4Life

So Acura has failed at getting perfect cars to customers.

They make us wait and they still didn't get it right.

It looks like the stupid shipping materials on the center console results in the leather creasing.

The techs now need to message the leather to address this.

If they just shipped the cars in a ready to drive mode this would be avoided. The cars are generally going right to customers so no PDI is needed.

The car leaves the factory, goes to the dealer on a truck and then into the dealership.

Nothing I want more than some apprentice going from an oil service on an ILX to massaging the leather on my $200K car - maybe they can mess something else up while doing the " massage "

 

[N Spec]

Really? A small crease and the car is not perfect? I bet there are more swirls in the paint simply from the typical techs rubbing the clear coat than a few creases in the leather. Find some REAL faults, like snap ring issues in the transmission or a recall on the connecting rods that every single produced car needs a new engine...

So the supplier can't provide a piece of leather long enough shipped without being folded or maybe a lesson for a future designers to not have a really long trim piece covered in leather or us plastic instead of cardboard. But hardly a less than perfect car because there's a small crease in the leather from packaging... Show me cars catching on fire or engines blowing up. That's when I'd be worried.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

This thread is all about having a little fun at Acura's expense.

The crease is meaningless to me.

Acura has focused on getting a perfect (to them) car to each customer and they have failed, simple as that.

The time they have taken in holding up production has been wasted.

I am a big believer is using some one else's approach when it works. Lexus figured out how to ship the LFA. The interior was not covered in all this crap. They just had the folks involved in off loading and PDI wear gloves.

Acura should wake up and build cars and deal with whatever happens under warrantee like everyone else.

 

[MasterNSXTech]

Nothing I want more than some apprentice going from an oil service on an ILX to massaging the leather on my $200K car - maybe they can mess something else up while doing the " massage "

I assure you that no "apprentice" will ever be allowed to touch a NSX for any reason.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

NSX

are you saying that the NSX tech will be washing the car at the dealership?

 

[tucsonsx]

I assure you that no "apprentice" will ever be allowed to touch a NSX for any reason.

In 4 months I will retire from many decades of being in the car business ( the vast majority of it in the highline end of it ). I have seen things that would curl your toenails. Certainly there are huge differences in quality from dealership to dealership and lead techs get to be lead techs by being smart and conscientious, but as Bricks and Bio pointed out there will still be porters and detailers moving and cleaning cars. They are all human and " stuff " will happen.

 

[MasterNSXTech]

NSX

are you saying that the NSX tech will be washing the car at the dealership?

Yes. The majority of the NSX techs are their dealership's lead tech and/or shop foreman. But now they will also be a porter and a car washer. It was drilled into all the techs who got certified for the NSX that they are sole custodian of the vehicle the second it comes in the comes in the door until it is delivered/returned to the client. So that includes washing it. Before any work is done at all, to avoid the extensive fender covers causing any scratching the paint with any dirt that may be on the paint. Then after all the work is done.

In 4 months I will retire from many decades of being in the car business ( the vast majority of it in the highline end of it ). I have seen things that would curl your toenails. Certainly there are huge differences in quality from dealership to dealership and lead techs get to be lead techs by being smart and conscientious, but as Bricks and Bio pointed out there will still be porters and detailers moving and cleaning cars. They are all human and " stuff " will happen.

I have seen plenty as well in my time. But it is been pretty hammered in to all of us that this is very much a different kind of car which also brings a different customer. Different protocols are in place to handle this car and those customers. And part of those protocols is a very limited amount of personnel have contact with the car and the customer. 10-15 years from now that might be a different story. But for right now, there are very strict guidelines which we will adhere to.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

Thanks NSX

i hadn't heard anything like that previously, except for the stuff the dealer needs to purchase to protect the car during servicing

any chance you are in Chicagoland

 

[MasterNSXTech]

Thanks NSX

i hadn't heard anything like that previously

any chance you are in Chicagoland

Nope. Probably best if I don't reveal my location or who I am. While I'm sure whatever I might post here will be fairly harmless, I do have a signed NDA on the books with Anerican Honda, and it's generally frowned upon for us to do stuff like this.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

Thanks again for joining

it will be great to hear about what you see as cars come in for a PDI and futures service visits

 

[Yinzer]

God I really dislike how so many things about today's automotive design (which to me would make sense only in design contests and/or if the end results were kept safely hung on a wall or under glass in climate-controlled environments) has inspired me to be such a Debbie downer but - this is nothing. Just wait until the stitched leather/alcantara on the dashboard, glove box, and center console surfaces wind up with creases, fading, and wear marks from regular contact & sun exposure, and eventually looks like a used basketball shoe. Imagine seeing bolster wear at every drive within your line of vision instead of hidden out of view under your left thigh.

Anyone here with a 10 year old car having stitched leather on the dashboard/IP (and where the car has more than 20k miles), feel free to tell me that this sort of thing as I describe does not happen at all. Would be happy to hear!

 

[tucsonsx]

Yes. The majority of the NSX techs are their dealership's lead tech and/or shop foreman. But now they will also be a porter and a car washer. It was drilled into all the techs who got certified for the NSX that they are sole custodian of the vehicle the second it comes in the comes in the door until it is delivered/returned to the client. So that includes washing it. Before any work is done at all, to avoid the extensive fender covers causing any scratching the paint with any dirt that may be on the paint. Then after all the work is done.



I have seen plenty as well in my time. But it is been pretty hammered in to all of us that this is very much a different kind of car which also brings a different customer. Different protocols are in place to handle this car and those customers. And part of those protocols is a very limited amount of personnel have contact with the car and the customer. 10-15 years from now that might be a different story. But for right now, there are very strict guidelines which we will adhere to.

This sounds like a great situation for both the customers and the people that serve them - you will be responsible for the car and, if all goes well, not have to suffer with other's blunders.

 

[Yinzer]

I have seen plenty as well in my time. But it is been pretty hammered in to all of us that this is very much a different kind of car which also brings a different customer. Different protocols are in place to handle this car and those customers. And part of those protocols is a very limited amount of personnel have contact with the car and the customer. 10-15 years from now that might be a different story. But for right now, there are very strict guidelines which we will adhere to.

Fun to read. Does your dealership require techs to place plastic seat covers on all cars (or even just some higher end modesl) as well as drive it from the drop-off bay to the service bay (instead of a porter or the shuttle driver) while wearing surgeon/latex gloves? I ask because the local Rahal Mercedes dealership (yes that Rahal guy) does this when I take my NSX there for state inspections, and I only assume they do that for even lowly C-class taxis. I found those acts to be incredibly telling about the length of care Rahal Mercedes extends to their customers' cars. Had never seen that before, but then again I've never owned a luxury car worth more than $50k for which this may be commonplace w/o me realizing it...

 

[MasterNSXTech]

Fun to read. Does your dealership require techs to place plastic seat covers on all cars (or even just some higher end modesl) as well as drive it from the drop-off bay to the service bay (instead of a porter or the shuttle driver) while wearing surgeon/latex gloves? I ask because the local Rahal Mercedes dealership (yes that Rahal guy) does this when I take my NSX there for state inspections, and I only assume they do that for even lowly C-class taxis. I found those acts to be incredibly telling about the length of care Rahal Mercedes extends to their customers' cars. Had never seen that before, but then again I've never owned a luxury car worth more than $50k for which this may be commonplace w/o me realizing it...

Every dealer's policy on seat covers and floor mats seems to differ. I will only do it on rainy days. And I will definitely do it if the car is particularly filthy and I would rather not get 10+ years of the customer's seat funk, spilled food/drinks, and who knows what else on me. My porters are clean. They're not underneath cars all day taking showers in engine oil. I don't see much reason for them using seat covers for moving vehicles around the lot other than to convey something to the customers.

That said. Like I said, NSX is a different car with different customers and with that comes different expectations. So whether I feel they do any good at all or not, I have always used them with the NSX and will continue to do so with the new car.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

Have you gotten any info on what has screwed up production so badly?

One guy on another site said that only 1 car is coming off the production line every 14 hours.

 

[MasterNSXTech]

Have you gotten any info on what has screwed up production so badly?

One guy on another site said that only 1 car is coming off the production line every 14 hours.

Not a clue. But a ball was seriously dropped. The original "plan" was to produce the first 220 or so cars, hold them in Ohio until all of them were complete, and then send the whole lot out in one batch. The wording AHM used for this batch was the first (if only) car the dealer would get is called a "coverage unit" in some attempt to get them in showrooms everywhere all at roughly the same time.

This has failed in an epic way. Many dealers still haven't received a car yet while some received and have already delivered their first car over a month ago.

Time is of the essence here. This is the only Honda or Acura that's come out in a while that we don't have to cater to people that come in with their TrueCar price and wind up selling for $500 under invoice. So of course just about every dealer will be getting a markup for the first handful of cars. And the dealers that have delivered a car already? I've heard numbers as high as $50k over is what they sold for. But the longer the other dealers have to wait to deliver their first car, the harder it gets to demand, and actually get, a fat markup. And yes yes...greedy stealership blah blah. I don't want to hear it. As I said, many dealers have laid out well over $100k to be able to sell and service this car. They all want to recoup that outlay, and the only way to do it is to markup the first couple delivered cars.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

I got a coverage unit at MSRP so I have nothing to bitch about, except the wait.

I had heard from a dealer over a year ago that Acura would just drop a car on them (that Acura speced) and then custom orders would commence for the second car.

I guess that plan got tossed by early 2016, it has been custom ordering since day one. I am happy it went that way because at this price point, you should get what you want, not what some doofus at Acura thinks we want.

I will do my Wednesday call with the NSX specialist late in the day tomorrow and hopefully he will have a production update.

Has your dealership received their coverage unit yet and if so, how did the customer like the car?

- - - Updated - - -

The S2000s were dropped in such a manner in 1999. Dealer in Boston wanted $15K over list.

I found a dealer in upstate NY who was at list and didn't want any part of the program (his customers were minivan folks). 350 miles on a flatbed and that was that.

 

[B2FiNiTY]

This pdf seriously looks like something from the onion. Hilarious.

 

[MasterNSXTech]

I got a coverage unit at MSRP so I have nothing to bitch about, except the wait.

I had heard from a dealer over a year ago that Acura would just drop a car on them (that Acura speced) and then custom orders would commence for the second car.

I guess that plan got tossed by early 2016, it has been custom ordering since day one. I am happy it went that way because at this price point, you should get what you want, not what some doofus at Acura thinks we want.

I will do my Wednesday call with the NSX specialist late in the day tomorrow and hopefully he will have a production update.

Has your dealership received their coverage unit yet and if so, how did the customer like the car?

- - - Updated - - -

The S2000s were dropped in such a manner in 1999. Dealer in Boston wanted $15K over list.

I found a dealer in upstate NY who was at list and didn't want any part of the program (his customers were minivan folks). 350 miles on a flatbed and that was that.

Coverage units and all further units were going to be built to client specifications long before 2016. Maybe very early on in the spin up it was dealers choice, but it was decided maybe even as am early as 2014 that they would all be built to order.

In the interest of my anonymity, I can't comment on my store's allocation, deliveries, customers, or anything along those lines.

 

[kendallj]

God I really dislike how so many things about today's automotive design (which to me would make sense only in design contests and/or if the end results were kept safely hung on a wall or under glass in climate-controlled environments) has inspired me to be such a Debbie downer but - this is nothing. Just wait until the stitched leather/alcantara on the dashboard, glove box, and center console surfaces wind up with creases, fading, and wear marks from regular contact & sun exposure, and eventually looks like a used basketball shoe. Imagine seeing bolster wear at every drive within your line of vision instead of hidden out of view under your left thigh.

Anyone here with a 10 year old car having stitched leather on the dashboard/IP (and where the car has more than 20k miles), feel free to tell me that this sort of thing as I describe does not happen at all. Would be happy to hear!

Not a concern on a car this expensive, because relative to the total ongoing costs of ownership, getting a bit of leather trim work done is going to be loose change. And I suspect by the time the interior is looking a bit scrappy, their owners will have long since upgraded to newer versions or different marques altogether.

For those that eventually purchase one pre-loved, I expect Honda/Acura will offer a refurbishment program as Honda currently do in Japan. Otherwise I'm sure the local auto-trimmer business would be more than up to task.

 

[Yinzer]

Not a concern on a car this expensive, because relative to the total ongoing costs of ownership, getting a bit of leather trim work done is going to be loose change. And I suspect by the time the interior is looking a bit scrappy, their owners will have long since upgraded to newer versions or different marques altogether.

For those that eventually purchase one pre-loved, I expect Honda/Acura will offer a refurbishment program as Honda currently do in Japan. Otherwise I'm sure the local auto-trimmer business would be more than up to task.

Very respectfully I disagree with 100% of your very wishful thinking comments! But it makes for fun conversation. Both you & I are conjecturing about future unknowns so who knows, you could very well be correct. Soon as you find any one owner of a present-day car who has zero flinches whatsoever about changing the originality of their car and/or about forking out non-trivial $$ for replacement materials on a dashboard or center console that's likely to require a good bit of disassembly to access, then I'll agree with you. It will be interesting to see if Honda extends their currently non-existent gen-1 NSX freshening program in the US towards the gen-2 tho.

PS I'm not being a wisenheimer here and critiquing you personally as much as I'm critiquing design elements that I feel are short-sighted and only good for eye-candy on the computer in the design studio and then in the showrooms, but not after 5+ years of real world use. But who knows.

The fact that the leather massaging is needed on a car even before an owner has started using it is, to me, supporting my argument (or just my own personal dislike) about too much of today's automotive design being short-sightedly focused on elements that really only make sense if hung on a wall behind velvet ropes.

Or think about: Which of our possessions sees the worst duty cycle usage, which includes being dirty, wet, hot, cold, muddy, smelly, salty, and impacted and jostled around at all times, often used daily and for hours at a time by overweight gas-passing coffee-spilling leather-creasing owners? (besides our underwear). It's our cars, which are unfortunately increasingly being designed like fine jewelry and as design exercises, and not to sustain their appearance even after normal usage. This same critique applies to mobile phones, especially Apple.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

The leather massaging is fallout from lack of integrated project planning

a ton of resources went into figuring out what the car is

the inability to build them at the targeted rate has to do with factory issues and a lack of control by marketing

the town clown who decided to dump a bunch of cardboard on the console for shipping appears to have been allowed to do this without any assessment of what the stuff will do to the leather (I.e. Didn't bother to validate as it was deemed minor)

 

[kendallj]

Very respectfully I disagree with 100% of your very wishful thinking comments! But it makes for fun conversation. ..... let alone a vehicle that will be transporting overweight gas-passing coffee-spilling leather-creasing owners.

:smile: Fair enough. I do get what you are saying. If I was to say what was the least convincing aspect of the new gen NSX, it would be the interior design values and cues. It's more 'mass market Acura' than the fine Italian craftsmanship it should be emulating for the price segment. It's a great first effort really, but Honda/Acura will need to be on a learning curve on how to create a product that delivers a package of all-round integrity and attention to detail, beyond just the excellent mechanical and electrical engineering. As Lexus discovered, it didn't happen overnight. That Acura care about a leather-crease shows they do care about attention to detail, so I look forward to seeing Honda develop their design investment to meet ever-increasing market expectation. For now it's strengths are enough to mitigate the mild disappointments.

- - - Updated - - -

The leather massaging is fallout from lack of integrated project planning

a ton of resources went into figuring out what the car is

the inability to build them at the targeted rate has to do with factory issues and a lack of control by marketing

the town clown who decided to dump a bunch of cardboard on the console for shipping appears to have been allowed to do this without any assessment of what the stuff will do to the leather (I.e. Didn't bother to validate as it was deemed minor)

It's a been a huge project for Honda internationally - and without an established pedigree in that market segment, they have had to start from somewhere to come this far, which is amazing in itself. And the huge financial investment I think will mean they'll do whatever it takes to get production sorted out.

 

[MasterNSXTech]

The fact that the leather massaging is needed on a car even before an owner has started using it is, to me, supporting my argument (or just my own personal dislike) about too much of today's automotive design being short-sightedly focused on elements that really only make sense if hung on a wall behind velvet ropes.

Or think about: Which of our possessions sees the worst duty cycle usage, which includes being dirty, wet, hot, cold, muddy, smelly, salty, and impacted and jostled around at all times, often used daily and for hours at a time by overweight gas-passing coffee-spilling leather-creasing owners? (besides our underwear). It's our cars, which are unfortunately increasingly being designed like fine jewelry and as design exercises, and not to sustain their appearance even after normal usage. This same critique applies to mobile phones, especially Apple.

This leather thing is honestly something that any car could fall victim to. I see weird creases in the leather seats of our other carlines all the time. Difference is that nobody is looking that close for flaws on a MDX. And everyone is fairly realistic about it...there's going to be kids walking over the seats getting in and out for soccer practice or whatever that the interior of the vehicle will be far from museum quality in probably a month. The NSX on the other hand? Like I said, there's different standards. To be honest, I think every vehicle that goes through an Acura dealer's doors should be held to the same elevated standard (because why not just buy their Honda counterpart the ), but I don't set the policies.

This is why we've all been taught how to even get in and sit in the seat of the NSX and why nobody else is allowed to touch the car. Because just kind of sitting sideways half on the sill and half on the thigh bolster and then rotating and sliding your way into position, like many people tend to do when getting in and out of a low slung sports car, will permanently crease the leather on the thigh bolster. And they want to have an absolutely perfect vehicle to deliver to the customer. If after delivery the customer wants to crease up all the leather? Go right ahead. They bought it they can do what they want with it.