Lancer Evolution.. woes...
- Thread starter spdntckt
- Start date
nkb said:
So I'll give you my college kid paycheck and you give me your big time paycheck and we'll call it even right?
I mean they are EQUIVALENT after all.I think saying that the majority of souped up 4 banger drivers are young guys is as blanket generalized as saying the majority of NSX owners are old geezers trying to make up for something who will never enjoy the best parts of the car.
Anyways, 2k is 2k. Regardless of what car you own. And if you still stand by your statement, I will honestly give you 2k for 6k. I'll pay shipping.
Evo is crazy good
I think you guys dont really give enough credit to the EVO. My father has a 99 Zanardi with a few mods, nothing spectacular, an EVO and a 02 Z06. And of all the cars I think the EVO is the one that handles the best. I don't find it particularly attractive but man that thing has some amazing tyres. Now given the choice Id always take the NSX because it has something indescribable but if I was going to Autocross and wanted to win I'd take the EVO every time. And its quality is defiently lower and the interior marterials are crappy but for a third the cost its impressive. Anyways just my 2 cents.
I think you guys dont really give enough credit to the EVO. My father has a 99 Zanardi with a few mods, nothing spectacular, an EVO and a 02 Z06. And of all the cars I think the EVO is the one that handles the best. I don't find it particularly attractive but man that thing has some amazing tyres. Now given the choice Id always take the NSX because it has something indescribable but if I was going to Autocross and wanted to win I'd take the EVO every time. And its quality is defiently lower and the interior marterials are crappy but for a third the cost its impressive. Anyways just my 2 cents.
spdntckt said:
Honestly, with reliability mods, FD's are plenty reliable. They've got a new Anti-Detonation unit that's finishing up testing. They pumped the FD up with 87 octane and ran it at full boost, ran strong as a rhino.
ctnsupra1 said:Owning a DSM (shares the same 4G63 engine as the Evo) 30psi would grenade the engine in about 10 minutes. You can run race gas and push 30 pounds but not on 93 or 91.
However, even if he was pushing 500hp, that will last about 2 days on the street. From my experience, they're poorly built cars and tend to break very often. When you start throwing down monster numbers as those, breaking things is a daily occurance. Besides, who cares if an Evo beat you? At the end of the day, you're going home an NSX. End of story
2nd Gen DSM's were unreliable because of crankwalk. 1st gen DSM's were more reliable, we could have a whole discussion about this pin that pin, this secondary oil squirter that secondary oil squirter. Anyways the Evo's 4G63 isn't quite exactly the same as the DSM's... pulleys arent even on the same side, so its clear mitsu didnt just lift one out of a GST and drop it in an Evo VIII.
Is a Supra making 750 hp so incredible? How about an engine with 2/3 the displacement and 2/3 the cylinders making 2/3 the power?
Why is it so difficult to accept that there are faster cars these days. No need to make excuses about this or that. An Evo can haul 5 people, groceries, and a sub box in the trunk big enough to house 2 15"s and still have cargo space... plus it can do it in the rain, snow, dirt...
No reason to hate, even more so no reason to be ignorant.
I'll give it to the Evo that it can haul and carry 5 people and fit another 2 in the trunk. Guess I'm just bitter abount having to spend more than the car's vaule getting it road worthy.
As far as making 2/3 the power of the Supra with 2/3 the engine, that is proven and true. However, the reliabilty factor is just not worth it IMO. The DSM's can't stay in working order long enough to make it worth the investment. My experiences with DSMs and Mitsu have made me more than angry enough to not give them a positive thought.
As far as making 2/3 the power of the Supra with 2/3 the engine, that is proven and true. However, the reliabilty factor is just not worth it IMO. The DSM's can't stay in working order long enough to make it worth the investment. My experiences with DSMs and Mitsu have made me more than angry enough to not give them a positive thought.
I also had two DSMs before getting my NSX..The first was a 92 AWD Talon all I did to it was lower it put Rims and Exhaust on it and I got 75,000 worry free mles from it. So I decided I liked the car and traded for a 2nd gen 95 AWD talon with only 30,000 miles on it. I went all out sent it to TAD in Chicago to tune it to about 375hp it ran 12.5s at 109mph...All I can say is the car was in the Shop " ALL " the time three clutches two trannys it ran rough every time I took it to a Drving School it would break down.
So it was time to sell it I had around 30k in it and sold it for 16.5K which I was happy as hell. So my search for a NSX was on found it one year later and have been one happy camper...I do like the EVO though but not in stock form they are fast a guy had one in my Driving School back in May and loved it said it handled great couldn't say enough good things about it.
Steven 91 Blk/Ivory
So it was time to sell it I had around 30k in it and sold it for 16.5K which I was happy as hell. So my search for a NSX was on found it one year later and have been one happy camper...I do like the EVO though but not in stock form they are fast a guy had one in my Driving School back in May and loved it said it handled great couldn't say enough good things about it.
Steven 91 Blk/Ivory
Wow, I must have completely lost you with my argument. Let me simplify for you:Rubber Chicken said:So I'll give you my college kid paycheck and you give me your big time paycheck and we'll call it even right?
A bill for $2K for someone making $30K, is comparable to a bill for $6K for someone making $90K (not counting the fact that there is a higher percentage of discretionary income for the $90K guy).
I never said that the paychecks are equivalent, that would be a dumb statement.
Rubber Chicken said:
A couple of problems with your statement:
1. Whether you like it or not, the majority (NOT all) of souped-up 4-banger drivers are younger guys, generally 30 or younger. This is purely based on personal observation, maybe it's different in your part of the country, but I doubt it.
2. Your NSX generalization was pulled out of your butt, presumably to make an argument. But, it can probably be argued (and generalized) that the majority (again, NOT all) of NSX owners are a little older than the above group. Also, one could make an argument that NSX owners, in general, make more money than the average person (that's a pretty accurate generalization, isn't it?).
3. I never made a derogatory statement about people who drive the 4-bangers, I was just making a statement about age and income. Where the shot at old geezers came from, I don't know.
Let me take this to an extreme, to make my statements perfectly clear: $2K is a significant amount of money to someone making $30K a year (or a college student). $2K is a drop in the bucket to someone making $1M a year. Does that make sense? As you make more money, $2K becomes less of a burden to pay.Rubber Chicken said:
Now, to nip some of your arguments in the bud, let me state the following:
1. Yes, there are older people driving souped-up 4-bangers.
2. Yes, there are younger guys driving NSX's.
3. Generally, as you get older, you tend to make more money as your experience increases, and you are more marketable in the job market.
4. Yes, there are plenty of young guys who have a lot of money, be it through being smart and successful, having been born with money, winning the lotto, whatever. However, in general, young people do not have a lot of disposable income.
5. Please do not come back with the "I know this 60-year old that drives a souped up Civic" argument, that will invariably be an exception.
6. No, I do not make an insane amount of money. But, I am comfortable enough financially to where I have decided to buy a used NSX. Could I afford a 4-cylinder import, and make a lot of mods to it? Absolutely! But, that's just not my thing, never has been.
Rubber Chicken said:
I don't think people here find it diffcult to accept there are faster cars, especially the ones with turbos. Furthurmore, there's no hate, most of us can buy an Evo any given day.
it is very hard to hang with a turbo car on the freeway, specially if he tweak it. there is nothing like a kick of turbo(s)
but.... 30 psi of boost???
from a Supra boostholic family.. i find it very hard to believe.
17/18 psi boost in a supra can hang with everything with 4 wheels. NOS or not..
anything close to 25 psi is just simply blowing hot air.. hence lessen the efficiency. if anything, it would only boost you into the repair shop..
30 psi is just simply .. bullshit. what do i know, maybe he was referring to his tire pressure.
-jjc.
blk supra 6spds
red nsx 6spds
but.... 30 psi of boost???
from a Supra boostholic family.. i find it very hard to believe.
17/18 psi boost in a supra can hang with everything with 4 wheels. NOS or not..
anything close to 25 psi is just simply blowing hot air.. hence lessen the efficiency. if anything, it would only boost you into the repair shop..
30 psi is just simply .. bullshit. what do i know, maybe he was referring to his tire pressure.
-jjc.
blk supra 6spds
red nsx 6spds
If you have enough money, you can make any car go fast.
There is always going to be something faster, and something better out there.
There is always going to be something faster, and something better out there.
A guy who knows told me when you get to 30 psi it starts blowing the spark out.
nkb said:
I dont want to start a war or anything but...
You say guys who owned souped up 4-banger are young.
And I say guys who own NSX's are old.
Of course its based on observation. Mine is based on observation as well, but you ARE right and I'm just pulling it out of my ass. Terrific.
The fact that drawing the line where one determines where one stops preaching laws of nature and starts pulling out of one's ass differs from person to person makes this argument close to impossible.
Someone who brings home 60k a year is just as capable of buying a 30k 91 NSX as a 30k Lancer Evo. If the engine blows on either car, he'd have to pay much more for the NSX than the Evo.
Do you at least agree with this?
Oh yeah I meant to ask you, were we speaking specifically of new cars? I'm not sure it would be a great stipulation to make provided that people are just as able of buying a used car as a new car. Besides, ALL Evo's cost 30k, because they're all new. But more than half of the NSX's in the US are 91-94's. (5940) 91's-94's going for 30-40k. To say only new would be to consider only a very small fraction of NSX's, and the sales figures do reflect the hand countable number of NSX's sold this year.
Black&Tan97Tnewportbeach said:
yes this is ture that higher the boost, better chance of missfire (he called it blowing the spark off), however
simple solution(s)
lower the sparkplug gap
lower the sparkplug heat range
and/or add the ignition amplifier
Regardless, i just dont believe he is doing 30 psi.. unless he spent big fortune to have some SERIOUS tuner to tune it.. but still.. constant/steady 30 psi boost is almost impossble.
not even boost peak (creep) at 30 psi..
-jjc.
Of course 30 pounds is a bit extreme for most... but that is exactly what myself and many other dsm's run on c16 race gas... on the street. I do not run that on a daily basis of course. But I do run that on the weekends when I am looking to make a kill. A friend of mine owns the fastest eclipse in the world.... he runs 45 pounds of boost on alcohol. His best so far is 7.8x at 17x mph. That is on the stock crank/block/head with a few tricks applied to them. To those who do not have much experience with boost... you may want to take a look at what the supra's and other cars that make high whp #'s are running for boost. Supra's regularly run 30+ to make their insane hp #'s. These cars can be reliable, but more than often the people building the cars try to cut corners and make the power. If built correctly and completely ($) the 4 bangers can be reliable... daily. Mo - Elite.
Elite said:
being a supra owner and active in supra list since 97, i am not aware of ppl "regularly" boost 30 psi in their supras. (but again, there are a lot of things that i've never heard of) To the best of my knowledge, stock turbo can only boost 25 psi MAXX
stock supra turbos are most efficient at 17/18 psi producing ~400rwhp/400tq+. anything after that you would only blow hot air, you will see little or no hp gain.
aftermarket turbo (larger single or twin), at 13 - 17 psi, you will be producing some monsterous hp/tq.. after 18 psi, even aftermarket turbo loose their efficiency.
i have rarely heard of car boosting 25+psi, Only time was Top Secret Skyline R34 & Supra produce around 1000 rwhp,at 25psi. Again, Top Secret is not your everyday tuner nor pa and ma working out of their garage..
Put your car on dyno, and see if you will produce anymore hp after 18 psi on pump gas. Yes race gas can benefit from higher boost, but at 7 buck per gallon, more power to you
-jjc.
blk supra 6spds
red nsx 6spds
Hmmm, right...
While I have seen some Supras push the 30psi mark, not many do it because, as JJCNSX stated, they're just blowing hot air. Most turbos aren't efficient enough to run the 25+ pounds. As far as this:
To run 45psi, you're going to need a little more than a stock engine (from what you've said) and more than a few tricks done to them. Sure, if he is Superman and coated them all with kryptonite or something, well then maybe. But a stock block (the 6 bolt) has a hard enough time keeping 400 HP without blowing apart. You throw 45psi at it, good luck, bye bye engine. Not looking for a war here nor am I wanting to race your friends 45psi DSM against my best friends, uncles, mothers, sons S10 with a NASA space shuttle engine. And I'm not trying to dog the 4G63 or DSMs wait a sec., ok I am. I have one, it's a piece. I'm angry at myself for making this thread even more off topic...
While I have seen some Supras push the 30psi mark, not many do it because, as JJCNSX stated, they're just blowing hot air. Most turbos aren't efficient enough to run the 25+ pounds. As far as this:
I'm going to give that the
To run 45psi, you're going to need a little more than a stock engine (from what you've said) and more than a few tricks done to them. Sure, if he is Superman and coated them all with kryptonite or something, well then maybe. But a stock block (the 6 bolt) has a hard enough time keeping 400 HP without blowing apart. You throw 45psi at it, good luck, bye bye engine. Not looking for a war here nor am I wanting to race your friends 45psi DSM against my best friends, uncles, mothers, sons S10 with a NASA space shuttle engine. And I'm not trying to dog the 4G63 or DSMs wait a sec., ok I am. I have one, it's a piece. I'm angry at myself for making this thread even more off topic...Wow -
I had no idea my original post would cause such a flurry
Idon't know if mr, evo was BSing me or not.... at the end of the day.. he certainly could have been... but i do know that his car was *fast* - and if it was 20PSI, 25, or 30.... well...
Yes.i Know.. I have an X - he has an EVO - and from a pride of ownership perspective, there is a huge difference... just sometimes I feel like i need a few more ponies... might not be able to fend off *everyone* - but.. heck. lets shoot for the 90th percentile.. LOL
I had no idea my original post would cause such a flurry
Idon't know if mr, evo was BSing me or not.... at the end of the day.. he certainly could have been... but i do know that his car was *fast* - and if it was 20PSI, 25, or 30.... well...
Yes.i Know.. I have an X - he has an EVO - and from a pride of ownership perspective, there is a huge difference... just sometimes I feel like i need a few more ponies... might not be able to fend off *everyone* - but.. heck. lets shoot for the 90th percentile.. LOL
here something i found <a href="http://shepracing.com/">talon</a>
Would your MN friends name be Brent????? I thought so. Talked to him many times......I remember when he used to take his then wifes car to the track, River falls, Great lakes, Norwalk etc. That thing impresses me along with all of the other 4 cyl cars in the import scene. osofast!
IMHO, a short-life 10 second car is not all that impressive...
I defined young for you, which to me is 30 or younger. Are you saying that is not true?Rubber Chicken said:
Right, you said "old geezers". To me, that means 60+ (unless to you that means anyone over 30). Are you willing to stand by the statement that the majority of NSXs are owned by people 60 years or older?Rubber Chicken said:
Yes, I am claiming that the "old geezer" quote was pulled out of your ass, to get a rise out of people (or maybe just me). I agreed with you that NSX owners are usually an older crowd than the 4-cylinder import crowd, but saying they're old geezers is silly and argumentative.Rubber Chicken said:
Laws of nature??? Did I preach any laws of nature? I was merely putting forth an observation, based on personal experience. The vast majority of souped-up 4-banger drivers are younger (as defined above). Who knows, maybe they use a lot of Oil of Olay, and just look younger, I don't know.Rubber Chicken said:
Yes, I agree with that.Rubber Chicken said:
However, even though this thread started about an EVO beating an NSX, the talk about souping up cars and needing rebuilds went to 4-bangers in general, of which the majority (here I go, preaching laws of nature again) do NOT cost 30K new. In fact, a lot of them probably are bought used, then modified.
No, I wasn't talking about only new cars. I also wasn't talking about only EVO's. In fact, I wasn't even talking about any specific 4-banger. What does a used Civic go for? $30K? Didn't think so.Rubber Chicken said:
So, in summary, for someone who can afford a $30K car (be it a 91 NSX or a new EVO), a $2K repair job can be an uncomfortable expense, but doable. For someone who can buy a $50K or a $90K car (or a $90K car as a weekend drive), $2K is not as big a deal. And, lastly, for someone who can only afford $10K on a car (say, a used Civic for $5K, with $5K in mods), $2K is 20% of the cost of their car. Pretty huge repair bill.
Do you at least agree with that? If you do, then you agree with me on the ONLY argument I was originally making.
Also the nice thing about the EVO is it pulls a better G then the NSX stock and has Brembo's stock. The car is fast and for 2k can do the 1/4 at about 12.5. I have had my EVO now for about 4 months and had 0 problems with it. Also I do like this car better then the NSX, it's more fun to drive. Doing a Turbo back exhaust for $750.00 and getting about 25-30HP with that. 
Computer next, AEM once it's done then turbo, cams, and fuel mods. Should be about 400HP to the wheels and last 100k plus miles if done right.
Computer next, AEM once it's done then turbo, cams, and fuel mods. Should be about 400HP to the wheels and last 100k plus miles if done right.Bell turbo B18C1 said:
Come on now, lets not start the BS. I SOLD my NSX I had for 5 years and bought a evo. I wanted a car I could take to the track STOCK and do well and the evo is just that. The NSX to me is not a good deal. I looked at the new one's and almost did the lease deal but I ended up with a evo. Could of spent 100k if I wanted to but the evo for 28,000 what I paid was a good deal. And guess what if I am at the track and nail a wall I will not cry as bad as I would with the nsx. 28,000 for this car I think is a good deal. If it blows up oh well if it looks like hell is 2-3 years I will get something else. They already have over 15 different exhausts for this car and will have a AEM and a 650HP turbo by the end of the year for about 5k.
nkb said:
I ran my Evolution against my friends NSX and we were side by side the whole time until the time to shift came....that is when the NSX would pull ahead due to that high redline....but when the acceleration was on the cars were almost dead even. My Evo was bone stock as well. It was a fast car running high factory boost, and the motor has the potential for more in those as well.
nkb said:
The only thing I am really at odds with in this statement is your generalization that all younger people are car poor and spend every last dime on them. It is possible that they are just enthusiasts who enjoy that engine platform. At 26 years of age I am still rather young and personally enjoy cars in any form regardless of engine size. I owned a 2003 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution for a couple of months and it was a VERY capable car right out of the box. Probably more capable on the track than the NSX for most drivers. It just seems easier to drive quickly. Before you jump on me for that statement, please note that I also own two NSX's and know what I am talking about in that comparisson. Anyone who has driven an Evo will tell you the car is almost telepathic with how it reads what you want it to do and it just does it. The car is amazing. So people should remember...do not knock on it until you have tried it. People seem to get engine size envy on here sometimes and think that a '4- banger' is just some turd that gets good gas mileage. Well, I will tell you my Evo was a blast to drive, and my S2000 is like the worlds biggest go-kart and a TON of fun to drive, and both of those are 4-cylinder cars. Just keep these all in mind when looking at a car and its owners.
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