Just got off the phone with Acura (snap ring)

[Russ]

Is it possible for it to be cracked for months before it actually breaks apart?

Yes. My snap ring broke and the pieces stayed in place. Only when the trans was opened up to have short gears installed was it apparent the snap ring had failed. Prior to opening up the trans there was no symptom of snap ring failure. The trans shifted like butter. It's impossible to know how long it was running like that - could've been days, could've been years.

 

[tmc/nsx]

Just to put in my story to add to the thread. I bought a 92' and researched the snap ring thing but not deeply enough. I was under the impression it was mostly 91's. I was wrong and mine was in the range. Long story short, I had the car Checked by Goodson Acura when I bought it too, 3 1/2 yrs ago, and they didn't throw a flag on that either. Well snap ring went about a year later and I didn't research deeply enough again. Long story short, I fought trying to get it done but ran into the same problems as everyone else here, so I have had only one arm and one leg since then (lol). Oh well, I still love my NSX. But as stated in here before, they knew there was a problem and should have just made it a recall. But since they didn't it's just kind of a "oh well" scenario for those of us who are second, third....etc. owners. I was done being mad about this long ago, but I know I wasn't the only one. Anyways, just another snap ring story to add to the mix. Thanks!

 

[jaytip nsx]

A few people have mentioned above,about the car being 13/14 years old and that nobody can expect Honda to goodwill it.On the grounds of the cars age fair enough.But what about milage? There are 14 year old cars out there that still have less than 20k on the clock(not many i know) but they do exist.
Do you really believe that Honda is correct in refusing to repair a car with such low milage(regardless of its age) when a problem occurs THAT THEY KNOW ABOUT.Sorry but i think that it should be taken care of.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

A few people have mentioned above,about the car being 13/14 years old and that nobody can expect Honda to goodwill it.On the grounds of the cars age fair enough.But what about milage? There are 14 year old cars out there that still have less than 20k on the clock(not many i know) but they do exist.
Do you really believe that Honda is correct in refusing to repair a car with such low milage(regardless of its age) when a problem occurs THAT THEY KNOW ABOUT.Sorry but i think that it should be taken care of.

Most warranties are based not only on mileage but also on time.


Armando

 

[jaytip nsx]

But we are not talking about a warrenty issue though.This was a manufacturing defect which was limited to a # of cars and then sorted out.
I presume that the snap ring is not an item that is subjected to wear and tear and thus does not need periodically replacing.
20k is not even two years motoring for the average car,so i think on that basis it should be fixed free.
Of course this is all hypothetical,as we are not talking about a particular low milage 14 year old NSX :biggrin:

 

[The Kid]

mine broke about 1 1/2 months ago :frown: and I WORK for ACURA...

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

I WORK for ACURA...

Don't we all?


Armando

 

[The Kid]

Don't we all?


Armando

I meant for the motor company not my car :tongue:

 

[Larry Bastanza]

You cannot compare the the Toyota Rav4 CEL since I am sure it was a 0420 or 0430 code and they replaced both cats and 4 02 sensors UNDER WARRANTY BASED ON FEDERAL EMISSIONS STANDARDS. Toyota does not have a choice, they MUST fix it free.

Not that I am knocking Toyota customer service, my wife's Rav4 has been in for this and the dealer was great about it. BTW, Acura does the same

So this is not a goodwill type of warranty repair, and you cannot compare the two.

JMO,
LarryB

 

[Dr. Sweat]

That sucks, but you've got to be aware as a buyer if the car is in range and take that into consideration on the price. The previous owner(s) should have had the problem taken care of. I'll be in the market in about a year and it will be one of the first things that I look for since I'll probably only be able to afford an earlier model year. Bottom line is that your getting a 14 year old car and stuff is gonna be messed up on it. The rep on the phone had no business being rude to you or unprofessional. If that is your beef that's fine, but I don't think after 14-15 years Acura should be responsible for a new tranny. Plently of first year cars have problems. Always have and always will, because some problems don't show up until a year or so down the road. Nissan has replaced many trannies on many 2003 350z's. Some more then once. I don't think that someone who buys the car in 2017 with 20k on the ticker should get a new tranny at that time if it fails.

 

[Sockeye]

The Bottom Line is you can spend almost that much on a catback exhaust just so it sounds better/louder. whats 1500.00/2000.00 to fix tranny?
I only got a 300.00 reduction after I told the owner who thought he had non snap ring car it was in range and i still chose to buy the Car. low miles and clean I may pay with a big towing bill later, i'll deal with it then.

 

[BobMc]

The Bottom Line is you can spend almost that much on a catback exhaust just so it sounds better/louder. whats 1500.00/2000.00 to fix tranny?
I only got a 300.00 reduction after I told the owner who thought he had non snap ring car it was in range and i still chose to buy the Car. low miles and clean I may pay with a big towing bill later, i'll deal with it then.

Get AAA premium, good for 100 mile towing :biggrin:

 

[NetViper]

mine broke about 1 1/2 months ago :frown: and I WORK for ACURA...

I thought you got it good wil repaired?

Anyway, I also think Acura should goodwill all the repairs regardless of age or mileage. They made a mistake when designing the car, and I honestly think they should be responsible for fixing it. If not, they should at least supply the part for free and make you just pay labor.

 

[jlindy]

The Bottom Line is you can spend almost that much on a catback exhaust just so it sounds better/louder. whats 1500.00/2000.00 to fix tranny?
I only got a 300.00 reduction after I told the owner who thought he had non snap ring car it was in range and i still chose to buy the Car. low miles and clean I may pay with a big towing bill later, i'll deal with it then.

Good luck, but if you dont' fix it in time, it will cost you a HELL OF A LOT more than 2k.

 

[KGP]

I only got a 300.00 reduction after I told the owner who thought he had non snap ring car it was in range and i still chose to buy the Car. low miles and clean I may pay with a big towing bill later, i'll deal with it then.

No disrespect intended, but that attitude solidifies my opinion that buyers are due much more of a reduction. More in line with what the preventative repair actually costs.

 

[Dr. Sweat]

I think that it's hard to negotiate a lower price based on the snap ring, when there is probably some kid who has a trust fund and has never heard of a "snap ring" waiting behind you to buy the car.

 

[The Kid]

I thought you got it good wil repaired?

Anyway, I also think Acura should goodwill all the repairs regardless of age or mileage. They made a mistake when designing the car, and I honestly think they should be responsible for fixing it. If not, they should at least supply the part for free and make you just pay labor.

I plead the 5th :biggrin:

 

[ChrisK]

I got mine replaced for free in 1999. At the time the mileage in my car was in low 30K. I just dropped it off at Marin Acura, they verified the damaged, call the regional rep and approved within a couple of days.

My car has a similar story. I believe you know Mike Cruz, so maybe you also know Ben Lin whom I bought my 92 from. Anyway, I think it was in 2000 that the snap ring finially gave out with over 60K miles and it was good willed. In this case it is a little different because the owner that Ben bought the car from had a written letter from his dealer in Texas stating they will good will the tranny if/when it gave out. This letter was presented to the California dealer during the car purchase negotiations and they said they will honer the good will as well. I guess in this case everyone associated with my car was lucky in that it was already 8-9 years old and over 60K miles. Looking on the bright side the short gears and 4.235 ring and poinion went in at that time as well :smile:

 

[KGP]

GM snap ring comparison

Here is how General Motors is handling their snap ring problem they have encountered with C6 Corvettes and Cadilac CTS-V's:

DATE: October 21, 2004

SUBJECT: Service Bulletin 04-07-29-003
Mis-Machined Transmission Countershaft Snap
Ring Groove (Inspect/Replace the Transmission)

MODELS: 2005 Chevrolet Corvette
2005 Cadillac CTS-V with 6-speed manual transmission
Corvette Transmission, Manual 6-SPD, Tremec (RPO MM6 or MZ6)
CTS-V Transmission, Manual 6-SPD, Tremec (RPO M12) and included in the attached VIN list

TO: All Cadillac and Chevrolet Dealers

ATTENTION: Dealer, General Manager, Sales Manager,
Service Manager, Parts Manager and
Warranty Administrator
IMMEDIATE ACTION REQUIRED

Advanced Service Bulletin 04-07-29-003 is being released today and advises dealers to inspect for the mismachined transmission countershaft snap ring groove. Dealers will perform a transmission snap clutch maneuver and if necessary, replace the transmission.

In addition to using this procedure to repair vehicles with this complaint, we are requesting that this repair be performed on all vehicles currently in your inventory that are included in this Administrative Message VIN list. Completion of this procedure prior to vehicle sale or delivery will help ensure customer satisfaction and reduce the possibility of future complaints.

We are also requesting you contact the DBC to report owner information for any recently delivered vehicles.

Please see the attached VIN list and bulletin for detailed instructions. The list of involved vehicles is also included in the attached bulletin.

Subject: Mismachined Transmission Countershaft Snap Ring Groove
(Inspect/Replace Transmission)

Models: 2005 Chevrolet Corvette with Manual 6–Speed Tremec Transmission (RPOs MM6, MZ6)
2005 Cadillac CTS-V with Manual 6–Speed Tremec Transmission (RPO M12)

Attention: This correction should be performed on all vehicles currently in your inventory that are included in the Administrative Message (U.S.) or Dealer Communication(Canada) VIN list prior to sale or delivery. In Canada, the Dealer Communication and VIN list is distributed to affected dealers only.

File In Section: 07 - Transmission/Transaxle
Bulletin No.: 04-07-29-003
Date: October, 2004 Service Bulletin

Condition
Some of the 6-speed transmissions in the subject vehicles may have been assembled with an extension countershaft snap ring grove dimension that was machined out of specification. This condition may result in fore and aft / back and forth movement of the shift lever when in 5th gear, then 5th or 6th gear clash noise, and eventual premature wear of the 5th and/or 6th gear synchronizer.

Correction
Dealers will inspect for this condition by performing a transmission snap clutch maneuver and, if necessary, replace the transmission.

Transmission Snap Clutch 5th Gear Test Procedure

1. Raise and support the vehicle so that the rear wheels are safely off the ground. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in General Information:

• Corvette – SI Document ID #104056.
• CTS-V – SI Document ID #813128

2. Start the vehicle. Important: Ensure that the transmission is not in Reverse and that the wheel speed is zero.
3. Depress the clutch pedal to the floor.
4. Shift the transmission into 5th gear and remove your hand from the shift knob.
5. Increase the engine speed to 2,000 RPM.
Important:
• The shift lever should have NO fore-aft / back and forth motion when the clutch is released.
• On a very small number of vehicles, the shift lever may move slightly rearward only once. This is a normal characteristic.
• The shift lever WILL have some lateral / side to side motion which will occur due to torque roll of the powertrain.
• If the shift lever moves, it will be toward 6th gear (rearward) and the magnitude could be 4 mm – 8 mm (0.16 in – 0.31 in) at the shift lever knob and will repeat each time the clutch is snapped.
6. Quickly release the clutch pedal and watch to see if the shift lever has any fore-aft movement.
• If the shift lever DOES NOT move fore-aft, or moves very slightly, about 2 mm (0.079 in), repeat the test sequence Steps 3 to 6 for a total of 10 times to ensure there is no shifter lever movement. If the shift lever does not move other than once very slightly after 10 cycles of test sequence, the transmission is OK. No additional repair is necessary and the inspection labor operation may be claimed.
• If the shift lever DOES move fore-aft, repeat the test sequence Steps 3 to 6 to confirm the shifter lever movement. If the shifter lever does move fore-aft, continue with the next step.
Important: The following test is for comparison purpose only. The 3rd gear amount of fore-aft movement is allowable.
7. Perform a comparison test with the shifter in 3rd gear. Compare the amount of fore-aft movement with the shifter in 3rd gear and 5th gear while performing test sequence Steps 3 to 6.
• If the amount of fore-aft shifter lever movement is the same in 3rd gear as 5th, or if only slight movement occurs once in 5th gear, no additional repair is necessary and the inspection labor operation may be claimed.
• If the amount of fore-aft shifter lever movement is greater in 5th gear than in 3rd gear, continue with the next step.
8. Replace the transmission. Refer to Transmission Replacement:

 

[ATERPAK]

There seems to be two questions going on here. One was the part defective? If yes then a recall within the specified transmission serial number should have been issued and the parts changed. NO QUESTIONS ASKED PERIOD!

What is question number 2? There really isn't one. Even a used NSX sold via a dealer should have been checked by them for this problem before the sale and as part of their so called "certification" program. If they choose not to fix the tranny, then they are obligated to tell the buyer that this problem exist and then let the buyer decide whether to buy the car or not. What do you think the buyer will do? If it were me it would be either fix it or NO SALE.
Al T.

 

[DDozier]

As a snap ring survivor I can honestly say this is black eye on Acura for the way this has been handled, I went through all this a few years back with my '92. The only reason the snap rings were not repaired back in 92 is that through the discovery of the problem no one was killed or seriously injured. If Acura had thought the risk for personal injury claims was higher than the cost to repair all questionable trany's they would have been fixed ASAP, but they thought the percentage of failures would be low, the risk of personal injury would be low, thus the repair cost to good will a number of units would also be low. What happened to building a product you can stand behind and will stand behind? They should offer a warranty to cover premature failures of parts, not to cover up parts not manufactured to within their own specs. For me this is not a warranty issue at all, they made the parts incorrectly by their own admission, FIX IT, it is that simple. I for one believe that most if not all of the effected transmissions will someday have a snap ring failure it is just a matter of when, and how much use/abuse the car sees. The fact that we are still dealing with this is the real problem, they should have fixed these cars as a normal part of service, when you go in for your 20k mile service;

(here is a little tip for Acura Customer Service the script should read like this):Mr. or Mrs. Smith your car is in need of a repair on the transmission, I can order the parts today and schedule a time for you to bring the car back in, we will need the car for two to three days to complete the repairs, will you be needing a loaner car?

This really brings me back to a very dark place in my Acura ownership, I just hope they are better about the transmission problems with my CL, someday I will sell it and would like to tell the buyer Acura knows there is a problem and I feel very confident they will help you should you have a problem. I do know this, if I had the snap ring failure 6 months earlier I would not own a CL today, it took me almost 2 years to consider another Acura/Honda product after the snap ring failed. I really do love the looks of the new TL, but I have not bought one yet. Customer loyalty to any brand should be worth alot of beans to the bean counters but I am afraid it may not be to Acura.

Dave

 

[comquat1]

(here is a little tip for Acura Customer Service the script should read like this):Mr. or Mrs. Smith your car is in need of a repair on the transmission, I can order the parts today and schedule a time for you to bring the car back in, we will need the car for two to three days to complete the repairs, will you be needing a loaner car?

Two to three days??? I had mine turned around in 24 hours! :biggrin: But then again I had a ferry I had to catch back to Michigan that I couldn't miss. Thanks AoB! :smile: I do agree though, I should have never even had to look into a "snap ring issue" when searching for my car.

 

[Ben]

My car has a similar story. I believe you know Mike Cruz, so maybe you also know Ben Lin whom I bought my 92 from. Anyway, I think it was in 2000 that the snap ring finially gave out with over 60K miles and it was good willed. In this case it is a little different because the owner that Ben bought the car from had a written letter from his dealer in Texas stating they will good will the tranny if/when it gave out. This letter was presented to the California dealer during the car purchase negotiations and they said they will honer the good will as well. I guess in this case everyone associated with my car was lucky in that it was already 8-9 years old and over 60K miles. Looking on the bright side the short gears and 4.235 ring and poinion went in at that time as well :smile:

The fine details of this story:

- Bought the car in July 1999 with 50K miles

- The previous owner had a letter from his Acura regional representative that Acura would goodwill the transmission case and snap ring repair (provided it had not yet failed) at the time the clutch was replaced by an Acura dealer at the owner's expense.

- Before I bought the car, I inquired both with the Texas regional Acura rep, and the local regional Acura rep to see if I could get that agreement transferred to me, which it subsequently was.

- Snap Ring failed in October 1999 with 54K miles and before the clutch needed to be replaced.

- Went to the dealer, and brought my agreement, and asked the dealer to see what they could do for me. Dealer service manager went to bat for me, and got Acura to cover all the entire repair, provided I pay for the dealer labor rate to have a clutch installed. At the same time, I had them install the 4.23 R&P and JDM gearset. All I had to pay was the labor to install the clutch (the clutch parts themselves, I ordered from a dealer with an NSXCA discount, and brought in), and the parts cost for the 4.23 R&P and JDM gearset. I was actually out of town to attend NSX Fiesta in Japan when this work was being done, and they stored my car indoors when the work was done, and didn't mind that I had one of their loaner Integras for 2 weeks.

Some thoughts on it. I've heard that 1999 was pretty much the cutoff for goodwill repairs, so it looks like I just squeaked in under the deadline. I also heard that they look at the amount of money you have previously spent with Acura as a major factor too - I bought my 1992 Legend new, and up until that point, it had been all dealer serviced every 3000 miles - a considerable amount of $$ spent. So, I think I had these 2 factors in my favor, in addition to the pre-existing agreement.

 

[jdc1687]

No doubt, the service rep should have been polite.. In so far as a recall, the whole issue is related to the company's bottom line.. Said well in Fight Club...


JACK (V.O.)
The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now: do we
initiate a recall?

JACK (V.O.)
You take the number of vehicles in the field (A) and multiply it by the
probable rate of failure (B), multiply the result by the average
out-of-court settlement (C). A times B times C equals X. If X is less
than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.

Next to Jack, a chubby, middle-aged LADY gawks at him, appalled.

LADY
... Which ... car company do you work for?

JACK
A major one.(Acura!)

LADY
Oh.