Just got a Ticket!!!

[comquat1]

I can't believe this, I just got my first ticket for cruising a podunk back country road. Supposedly I was doing 70mph, but when I glanced at my speed it marked 60....
But what made me mad was what I would deem a kinda snide remark I made when asked how fast I was going, and as soon as it came out of my mouth I knew I was getting written up.

So here's my question, what's the procedure that you guys all do and say when you get pulled over for something like speeding to minimize your chance of getting a ticket? I want to minimize my chances as much as possible from here on out (which means mr. valentine is getting an order).

Also, I've got 18/19 inch rims on my car with 235s tires, how much in error is my speedometer do you think?

 

[DocL]

So let's say you were doing 60mph, what was the posted speed limit? I never ask how fast I was going, I just ask politely "what can I do for you" when the officer comes to my car. The fact is, you were speeding and got a ticket. End of story

You have three choices, I pay the fine, hire a traffic lawyer to fight it for you which you will win, or go to traffic school. I usually hire an attorney and get off with no conviction or points and I just have to pay the legal fee+court fee+fine. No hassels and no wasted time for me.

-Good Luck.

 

[comquat1]

speed limit was 55.
Do you really think a traffic lawyer can get someone off that easily?

 

[nsxtasy]

what's the procedure that you guys all do and say when you get pulled over for something like speeding to minimize your chance of getting a ticket?

Be polite and respectful, for one thing. Don't admit how fast you were going - that could be used against you in court - but don't play the cop for a fool either. Let him do the talking. Keep your hands in plain sight at all times so he knows you're not a threat. If you have a legitimate emergency, tell him, but don't lie.

I've got 18/19 inch rims on my car with 235s tires, how much in error is my speedometer do you think?

I doubt that you have 235 mm treadwidth rear tires... are you sure? What's the complete size?

 

[DocL]

speed limit was 55.
Do you really think a traffic lawyer can get someone off that easily?

Look in the phone book for a traffic attorney and see how much they charge. Down here in Florida, they charge a flat fee of something like $55 for a simple violation. In the past, I've just faxed a copy of the ticket with my credit card to the attorney that I have never meet before in person. I usually then get a letter in the mail about a week after the hearing with the ruling and how much the court fees were. Much easier and more predictable then doing it myself.

 

[nsxtasy]

speed limit was 55.
Do you really think a traffic lawyer can get someone off that easily?

Yes.

It's not always as simple as Doc makes it out to be; around here, you have to go to court if you want to get out of it. And they may not be able to get someone off from a ticket for 120 mph or for DUI. But 70 in a 55? Sure they can.

As another alternative, many states have some form of probation (or "supervision") in which you pay a fine, and the charge is suspended for a specified period; if you don't get another ticket during that period, it's wiped from your record. Furthermore, in the Chicago area at least, you can get supervision by mail, without going to court, but you must attend a traffic school (which you can take at home, over the Internet).

 

[FGG]

I agree with NSXTASY in terms of how to speak with a police officer when stopped and the unlikely prospect of simply hiring an attorney and making the ticket go away.

Having represented police officers for 25 years as a labor and criminal law attorney, there is no question that the first thing the officer is considering in a traffic stop is the driver's attitude (verbal and non-verbal) and then the admissions a driver will make in response to questioning. When we drive high performance cars that stand out we become targets for many officers (especially younger officers and those working special enforcement units which are rewarded for traffic stops in problem areas).

I have found that the best approach is to remain courteous at all times. Do not act confrontational as you have absolutely nothing to gain, as you will not only get the ticket, it is also likely the officer will not cut you any slack (as in reducing the number of miles over the speed limit). Treat the stop as if you were in boot camp; "yes sir, no sir;" but mean it, do not say it in a sarcastic manner.

I am aware that the handling of a traffic ticket in Florida (as well as most criminal cases) does NOT get the same treatment as in most other states. In Michigan, for example, only if you have had a clean driving record for a good number of years will the officer and/or local prosecutor agree (subject to the court or magistrate's approval) to taking a plea of responsible to a traffic ticket under advisement, thereby allowing the driver to avoid the points and record (but usually still having to pay the fine).

Most officers upon stopping a driver will solicit the driver's opinion (read as soliciting an admission) as to why they are being stopped (unless they don't want to hear anything, then you are likely to just hear "license, proof of insurance and registration, please"). At this point the best response is to jump to the apology without making any admission as to your speed. Say something to the effect of, "I am very sorry officer, what was I doing?" (without sarcasm!) Every officer is different, so there is no set way of dealing with each situation.

By the way, hiring an attorney, unless he is well connected with the officer/prosecutor/magistrate/judge, can be counterproductive with a simple ticket. You might be ahead of the game by just going into court, make your apology, plead that you want to preserve you stellar driving record (if true) and ask to have the plea taken under advisement or held in abeyance.

Good Luck!

 

[hlweyl]

I feel like this is something I can comment on since I have alot of experience in receiving tickets

First off, I agree with the other members in regards to being polite to the officer. This can make a difference in court (ask me how I know) If he/she asks you why you were speeding... just say you were not paying close enough attention and that you are sorry. Don't debate him and don't say you're in a hurry. I've found that most cops will be nice to you if you are nice first. I have ran into several cops on a power trip... in that case it is best to just bite your lip and let him get it out of his system. It almost seems like they are looking for a reason to yank you out of your car.

Most states you can plea guilty with explanation. This can be phrased many ways. Maryland you have to go to the court, stand in front of the judge, plea guilty with explanation. I usually say "your honor, I was on my way to/from work and I didn't realize my speed, i'm very sorry" As long as your record is relatively clear and you weren't going more than 20-25 mph over the limit, they'll let you go with a small fine and probation. Cool states like Delaware you can just mail in your guilty plea with your ticket and not even have to go to court. No points again, just have to pay the fine. DO NOT debate how fast you were going in court.. big mistake! And my personal opinion is that you don't need a lawyer unless there was an accident/alcohol etc involved.

And DO get a valentine 1, it can save your butt!

 

[comquat1]

I doubt that you have 235 mm treadwidth rear tires... are you sure? What's the complete size?

Ken, I wasn't thinking straight, my fronts are 235 40 17s and my rears are 275 35 18's. Which is weird because I thought i physically measured my rims and they were 18 and 19 respectively. however, that's not at issue here. I'm just curious as to how far off my speedometer might be.

Also, for those of you with Valentine 1's, how effective do you find it for instant on radar? I probably had another car 1/4 mile in front of me that i'm sure got zapped, do you think it would have picked up the radar and alerted me? Keeping in mind there's a number of slight inclines and declines that allow a car to go out of sight.

Finally, I talked to a couple lawyer buddies at church this morning, they said i don't have a shot other than to go into court and basically beg for a lesser charge. They are not traffic lawyers, but one said that if you have a clean record i might be successful, however i had a "no turn on red" 9 months ago so there goes that defense....
I'm wondering if it's even worth it since i still have my safe driving discount on my insurance (they never checked from this last ticket which is my only one) and they might not even check on this one. So are the points that big a deal if they don't affect your insurance rates?

 

[Ojas]

I'm just curious as to how far off my speedometer might be.

All things being equal, your speedometer will read 2.9% slower than it would with stock size tires (according to this tire size calculator).

 

[comquat1]

All things being equal, your speedometer will read 2.9% slower than it would with stock size tires (according to this tire size calculator).

How is it slower?
I would think that a bigger diameter tire would cause a car to travel a greater distance with every revolution of the wheel.
A 16 inch wheel has less "surface area" than an 18 inch right? So if they each turned one time, the 18 inch would cause the car to move a greater distance than the 16 in the same ammount of time, therefore creating a greater speed. Am I goofed up in my thinking?

 

[Ojas]

How is it slower? ... Am I goofed up in my thinking?

Your thinking is correct. However, I said "your speedometer will read 2.9% slower", meaning your car is actually traveling faster than the what the speedometer suggests. So, assuming your speedometer is 100% accurate with stock tires and it reads 60 mph with your current 275/35-18 tires, you're actually travelling at 61.7 mph.

16 inch wheel has less "surface area" than an 18 inch right

Yes. By "surface area" I'm sure you mean overall circumference.

 

[nsxtasy]

for those of you with Valentine 1's, how effective do you find it for instant on radar?

VERY effective. Unfortunately, if that instant-on radar is pointed at you, all it tells you is that you are about to be pulled over.

I probably had another car 1/4 mile in front of me that i'm sure got zapped, do you think it would have picked up the radar and alerted me? Keeping in mind there's a number of slight inclines and declines that allow a car to go out of sight.

Yes. The magazine tests generally show that it is effective at distances up to 2 miles straight and level, up to 1 mile with curves or elevation changes.

I talked to a couple lawyer buddies at church this morning, they said i don't have a shot other than to go into court and basically beg for a lesser charge. They are not traffic lawyers, but one said that if you have a clean record i might be successful, however i had a "no turn on red" 9 months ago so there goes that defense....

This varies from one jurisdiction to another. They might be right, they might not. You need to talk with an attorney who is familiar with the traffic courts in your jurisdiction.

I'm wondering if it's even worth it since i still have my safe driving discount on my insurance (they never checked from this last ticket which is my only one) and they might not even check on this one. So are the points that big a deal if they don't affect your insurance rates?

If you don't get any more tickets and you don't get into any accidents and you don't change insurance companies, it might have no affect at all. But if you get another ticket or two, your license could be suspended (most states have some system of points or convictions that determine this). If you have an accident, your insurance company could drop you because of the two convictions on top of it. And if you have to switch insurance companies for any reason, you could have trouble getting insurance and/or may get stuck with higher rates.

My advice: Fight it. I think your chances are better by getting an attorney who is familiar with the traffic courts. But even if you go to court yourself and "beg for mercy" (asking whether there is anything you can do to keep this off your record, like attending a traffic safety school), you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

[nsxnate]

A computer programmer friend of mine who actually wrote the program for traffic violation paying, point reporting, automatic warrant issue when past deadline, etc. for the State of Lousianna said that if you over pay your ticket by 1 or 2 dollars the program will send out an automatic refund check to you. Your case will not close until the check is cashed and the computer sees that you got your refund. You simply do not cash the check and your case never closes and the computer never reports the points to the insurance computer system. You paid your ticket so there will not be a warrant issued but since the computer cannot finalize the fine's transaction the points are not reported. I had many questions, but since he wrote the program I believe him. Further, in Louisianna if the case is not closed in 2 years it will be cancelled. I asked if all the states were like that and he said many of them use the same type program if not the same exact one.

I have tested the 2 year rule and it is true( as of 1998-2000). I got a ticket, did not pay it, and did not drive through Lousianna for quite some time (I did not need to and I lived in AL at the time). Two and a half years later I was stopped again (by airborne timing, bastards) and when they ran my info nothing came up...whew! I was nervous and I would not recommend doing that, but it worked and it was as if the earlier ticket never happened. I wonder if they have a nationwide warrant issue now so if you are delinquent in one state and get pulled over in another the info will come up... as of 2000 they did not.

As far as the overpay idea goes I think it is a well spent $2 to keep the points off your license... and what do you have to lose if you know you are guilty and have to pay it anyway? Of course my luck, there will be an attendant who manually closes everything out and does not issue the refund... but my friend says that is not how the system is designed.

 

[Ojas]

A computer programmer friend of mine...

Hmm.... Maybe you should contact snopes:

http://www.snopes.com/autos/law/ticket.asp
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=200249#post200249

 

[Ben]

Disclaimer: This is written with California in mind, and assumes you might be fighting the ticket. Your mileage may vary in other states.

A good strategy is to make the traffic stop as uneventful (and forgettable) as possible.

That way, if you decide to fight it later, he won't remember much about the traffic stop in court. In court, you'll be challenging his powers of observation in front of a judge. If the officer can't remember the details of the stop, or appears uncertain when you ask your questions during cross-examination, it makes it easier to plead your case to the judge.

When stopped, if you act or talk in a way that makes the officer think you'll be a pain to deal with, then he will write more detailed notes on the back of his copy of the ticket. He will then use these notes to refresh his memory in court. If he thinks you'll just pay and be done, usually he won't write any notes at all. If you are a pain to deal with during the stop, the chances are also more likely he will show up in court. If you are very forgettable, then chances are more likely he may not show up at all. If he no-shows, you win.

As for the notes he wrote on the back of the ticket, you can also put in a request for discovery to see what he wrote. You can also use this to postpone the trial date if they fail to send you the copy of the back of the ticket (they usually ignore the requests). It's in your best interest to postpone the trial date as long as possible, as it increases the chance that he'll no-show, as well as forget the details of the encounter. If I remember correctly, you can postpone once when you receive the fine in the mail.

That said, it may not be worth it to fight the ticket if you have the option for traffic school, as in CA, you just have to pay, and there are no points, and insurance never knows about it. You can go once every 18 months. But, making the traffic stop as uneventful as possible is still a good policy. It's said that CHP is trained to decide whether or not to give you a ticket before they step out of the car, to avoid being talked out of it.

 

[nsxnate]

Hey, thanks for correcting me. I thought it was to good to be true when she was telling me. Now I will contact Tabittha and tell her she is full of it! Maybe it was a rumor among her circle that never got straightened out or tested.

As for the 2 year rule I don't know if it has changed but I would have paid the $120 to avoid the 10 min. of nervous waiting while the police ran my license. I was lucky to have had the original ticket dismissed I think.

 

[Yellow Rose]

So here's my question, what's the procedure that you guys all do and say when you get pulled over for something like speeding to minimize your chance of getting a ticket?

With a concerned look on your face ask, "Officer, was that your wife I saw back at the biker bar?"

 

[LrdVader]

So here's my question, what's the procedure that you guys all do and say when you get pulled over for something like speeding to minimize your chance of getting a ticket?

With a concerned look on your face ask, "Officer, was that your wife I saw back at the biker bar?"

I Just know that if I tried that, the next thing I would hear is "Please step out of the car sir" as he reaches for his night stick.

 

[nsxtasy]

We should post the worst things we've heard during traffic stops. Mine would be, "You're just lucky that our county jail is full this evening!", uttered by a Michigan Highway Patrol officer while he was giving me three different citations during a single stop...

 

[Tom239]

Nolo Press has excellent books on dealing with traffic tickets, and has helpful articles on their web site ( http://www.nolo.com --see the "cars and tickets" link on the left edge).

nsxtasy wrote: We should post the worst things we've heard during traffic stops. An officer in Colorado once said to me "I don't know how fast you were going, but I had to drive like hell to catch up with you."

 

[Ojas]

First thing PA trooper said: "Are you blind, sir?"

 

[nsxtasy]

what's the procedure that you guys all do and say when you get pulled over for something like speeding to minimize your chance of getting a ticket?

Incidentally, if you know that you weren't speeding, you might feel confident enough to kid around, as the reviewer from the New York Times noted in his review of the Lamborghini Gallardo yesterday:

Minutes after leaving the hotel, I drive past a police car that is stopped at a red light. When the light changes, he turns and pulls into traffic behind me, so I am extra careful to observe the speed limit. After a mile or so of being followed at close range, I turn left onto a side road; the officer follows. Knowing that flashing lights are inevitable, I simply pull off the road, dig out my driver's license and lower the window.

"You know you were driving pretty slowly back there?" the officer asks, peering down into a passenger compartment that is at least a foot closer to the ground than the family sedans whizzing by. Confident that I have not broken any laws, I risk pushing the issue slightly. "Yes, well, you see, there was a cop right behind me."

A slight grin cracks through the officer's all-business facade. At about the same time I am praising my wit, two more patrol cars pull up, light bars aglow.

Fortunately, it is just the aforementioned attention, and a friendly chat about price and power ensues.

"How fast will it go?" a young, wide-eyed, but not-quite-drooling officer, asks.

"Not over the speed limit," I reply. The first officer hands back my license and I am back on the road.

 

[LrdVader]

Nolo Press has excellent books on dealing with traffic tickets, and has helpful articles on their web site ( http://www.nolo.com --see the "cars and tickets" link on the left edge).

nsxtasy wrote: We should post the worst things we've heard during traffic stops. An officer in Colorado once said to me "I don't know how fast you were going, but I had to drive like hell to catch up with you."

A friend of mine (in Colorado) once got out of a ticket with his wit. He was pulled over the cop asked him why he was driving so fast. He figured there was no way he was getting out of a ticket, so he shrugged and said "peer pressure" The cop started laughing so hard he let him go with a warning.

 

[SolidCitizen]

I've heard this two different times, both resulted in tickets: "You should really check your rear-view mirror when you speed." Uuh, thanks officers. Thanks for telling me how to avoid the problem that you cause.

And another time (no ticket): "This is a really hot car. You should be careful." As I was driving within the laws, I'm still not exactly sure how I should be more careful.

Here are some good ticket-fighting tips for CA folks... http://ticketassassin.com/fight.html