jh4na2136xt000034 - Purchased outside eBay for 50k last week

cmc140 said:
It definitely all boils down to personal preference and the subjectivity of value. A subset of society also agrees with me. (maybe:smile:) The NSX is now almost fully in the collector car lane, whereas 10 years ago it wasn't. Values are derived differently by collectors than they were by enthusiasts. Rarity within a superb mark is a value variable in the equation.
Click to expand...

DocL said:
I've been without an NSX for 3.5yrs. I considered another one, but to buy a 1991-1994 with close to 100k miles for $45k is insane. I ended up buying a 2004 Esprit with 23k miles. I sold it for a couple of reasons, the biggest reason was I came out ahead with a profit after owning it for 2.5 years. Fast foward to this past September when I got the itch to buy another car. I looked at NSX's again and the prices are just too inflated. There are now cars with over 150k miles with asking prices around $50k. I know they are just asking prices, however any vehicle with over 100k miles shouldn't be worth as much as some NSX owners believe. Also being that parts are now getting difficult to obtain, there was no way I was paying top dollar. I think there is a bubble coming on these cars with high mileage. The low mileage cars will always bring more money, but I like to drive my cars so I'd never buy one with super low miles.

For the above mentioned reasons, I'm going to sit on the sidelines, and in four or five years I'll pick up a gen2 NSX for less than 50% of it's MSRP new. :D
Click to expand...
I think you both make excellent points. I can't subscribe to the collectible car market but no doubt it exist. I'm just not into that genre of investments.


Two reasons and this just a matter of opinion:
1. I think there are better places to invest money into than cars.
2. I owned a few "collectible" cars and found they lose value when you drive them (Shocking!). So let's say you actually want to buy a car to drive and enjoy. "Drive the piss out of it" if you will... Then there are several other better cars than the NA2 coupe for the $$$ as [MENTION=3821]DocL[/MENTION] eluded to.


Happy to debate :)
 
Ultimately, my viewpoint hasn't changed from 10yrs ago. I bought an NA1 couple because, at the time, it was the easiest and most cost effective to build into the car I wanted. Up until about 3yrs ago this was true. Now the GT4 and the GT4RS, heck.. even the new Mustang are such awesome values for all that car it makes less sense to a "build" a car imo.
 
DocL said:
I've been without an NSX for 3.5yrs. I considered another one, but to buy a 1991-1994 with close to 100k miles for $45k is insane. I ended up buying a 2004 Esprit with 23k miles. I sold it for a couple of reasons, the biggest reason was I came out ahead with a profit after owning it for 2.5 years. Fast foward to this past September when I got the itch to buy another car. I looked at NSX's again and the prices are just too inflated. There are now cars with over 150k miles with asking prices around $50k. I know they are just asking prices, however any vehicle with over 100k miles shouldn't be worth as much as some NSX owners believe. Also being that parts are now getting difficult to obtain, there was no way I was paying top dollar. I think there is a bubble coming on these cars with high mileage. The low mileage cars will always bring more money, but I like to drive my cars so I'd never buy one with super low miles.

For the above mentioned reasons, I'm going to sit on the sidelines, and in four or five years I'll pick up a gen2 NSX for less than 50% of it's MSRP new. :D
Click to expand...

I know of a beautiful and well maintained 91 with 78k miles in Cape Coral that could be had for 45. It would be a great non-sideline place to sit and in four or five years you'd probably break even or a little better.
 
RYU said:
I think you both make excellent points. I can't subscribe to the collectible car market but no doubt it exist. I'm just not into that genre of investments.


Two reasons and this just a matter of opinion:
1. I think there are better places to invest money into than cars.
2. I owned a few "collectible" cars and found they lose value when you drive them (Shocking!). So let's say you actually want to buy a car to drive and enjoy. "Drive the piss out of it" if you will... Then there are several other better cars than the NA2 coupe for the $$$ as [MENTION=3821]DocL[/MENTION] eluded to.


Happy to debate :)
Click to expand...

You are right on the mark. In September I ended up buying a 2016 Ford Focus RS for a couple of reasons.

1) It's a safe four door car that I can take my kids in.
2) It doesn't stand out and get attention from the general population as much as the exotics.
3) It will out perform any gen1 NSX stock for stock.
4) It has a full warranty.
5) It's easy and cheap to mod with support from Ford Performance at my dealership.
6) It cost less than a 1991 NSX with 78K on the odo. :D
 
Last edited:
cmc140 said:
I know of a beautiful and well maintained 91 with 78k miles in Cape Coral that could be had for 45. It would be a great non-sideline place to sit and in four or five years you'd probably break even or a little better.
Click to expand...

I would love to buy it, but I don't want to get into a 26yr old car. I'm at the stage of my life where a full warranty is more important for me.
 
RYU said:
I think you both make excellent points. I can't subscribe to the collectible car market but no doubt it exist. I'm just not into that genre of investments.


Two reasons and this just a matter of opinion:
1. I think there are better places to invest money into than cars.
2. I owned a few "collectible" cars and found they lose value when you drive them (Shocking!). So let's say you actually want to buy a car to drive and enjoy. "Drive the piss out of it" if you will... Then there are several other better cars than the NA2 coupe for the $$$ as [MENTION=3821]DocL[/MENTION] eluded to.


Happy to debate :)
Click to expand...

For me a casino would be a better place to invest money than a car. I'm sure there are many other car fools (enthusiast) that fit into this category.
I've owned a few collector cars and never had the value vary one way or the other with mileage. Although, none of them were ever low mileage bubble cars.

My 98 has under 17,000mi and it does make me think maybe I should keep it under 20. I don't really care though, I do what I do for me.
 
DocL said:
You are right on the mark. In September I ended up buying a 2016 Ford Focus RS for a couple of reasons.

1) It's a safe four door car that I can take my kids in.
2) It doesn't stand out and get attention from the general population as much as the exotics.
3) It will out perform any gen1 NSX stock for stock.
4) It has a full warranty.
5) It's easy and cheap to mod with support from Ford Performance at my dealership.
6) It cost less than a 1991 NSX with 78K on the odo. :D
Click to expand...

That sounds like a fun car and practical at the same time. I'd like to get a ride in or drive one of those sometime.
I really enjoy what I call "low anxiety" cars. Like my old 300zx. I can drive it without worry. Leave it at work and not put the roof panels in. It's not worth anything and it's fun.

I also have an old jag and I drive it like a stole it. It's the most fun car I have and it's old, breaks down here and there, but damn so much fun.
 
cmc140 said:
I think your over-valuing purity / original paint. Below are examples of a collectible car with the same feature sets, akin to a NA2-T to NA2-T comparison, from the 2015 RM Auction.
http://www.rmsothebys.com/az15/arizona/lots/1966-jaguar-e-type-series-1-42-litre-roadster/1072215
http://www.rmsothebys.com/az15/arizona/lots/1965-jaguar-e-type-series-1-42-litre-roadster/1071753

An unrestored e-type is almost unheard of and that's why I could remember when it sold.
Here's the thing though, the restored e-type probably cost north of 100k to have restored and then when you add that to the purchase price, the unrestored might net the owner more money.
NSXs are new enough that there were people putting them in bubbles when they came out. I think there will be more to show up once prices really take off. These cars also require bubble collectors so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Doing a quality paint job on an NSX is a ton of work and a lot of money. Repainting a car that has a sub-par repaint is even more work and more money.
I wish I could have had an opportunity to bid on this thing, as I didn't think it was worth the 65k buy it now, when I saw it posted with the 3 crappy pictures.
Now I'm sort of relieved I don't have another NSX paint project in the queue. Although, I may have to take a run down to b-town and check this thing out in the next week or two.
Click to expand...

Chris, my point is the seller was using the red paint (and tan interior) as a testament to its rarity when that specific color isn't from the factory... so anyone could make a similar claim with a one-off, off-the-wall refinish. Even then, the car isn't the only red NA2 coupe with tan interior in the world. Just leave it as being unique simply for the fact that it is one of 20-something NA2 coupes that were delivered to the North American market (of course, excluding the Zanardi edition).

The Jaguar is a different era, and I'd imagine there are little-to-no examples of pristine, original paint as you say. But apples to apples, I still subscribe that purity wins when it comes to collectible cars be it the paint or OEM glass. Nothing wrong with a repaint especially if it's done correctly in the factory color and if the subject being restored needs it but flawless original paint vs. perfect repaint, original paint is going to be more desirable every single time.
 
kennyvb said:
Chris, my point is the seller was using the red paint (and tan interior) as a testament to its rarity when that specific color isn't from the factory... so anyone could make a similar claim with a one-off, off-the-wall refinish. Even then, the car isn't the only red NA2 coupe with tan interior in the world. Just leave it as being unique simply for the fact that it is one of 20-something NA2 coupes that were delivered to the North American market (of course, excluding the Zanardi edition).

The Jaguar is a different era, and I'd imagine there are little-to-no examples of pristine, original paint as you say. But apples to apples, I still subscribe that purity wins when it comes to collectible cars be it the paint or OEM glass. Nothing wrong with a repaint especially if it's done correctly in the factory color and if the subject being restored needs it but flawless original paint vs. perfect repaint, original paint is going to be more desirable every single time.
Click to expand...

Kenny,
I think the repaint is most likely the factory color. The first ebay seller just called it the wrong color. I could be wrong, but I can't fathom that any paint shop would paint it a different shade of red. He also called the interior color parchment and it's pretty obvious to be original. That'd be my guess anyway.

Those two Jags are an apples to apples comparison of collectible cars; one restored and one that's as flawless original paint and condition, as one gets on a 50 year old car. The sales are from the same auction so it takes some market variables out of the equation. I understand what your saying, I just don't believe it's accurate every single time when it comes to highest price paid. Same with factory non-factory color stuff. Of course we may have a different view of what "wins" is. Is it a dollar number of someones perceived value of their car, highest price one sells for, points awarded at a show, or is it your personal preference. If only completely original cars were collectible there wouldn't be much of a collector car market.

Anyhow, this thread is pretty far ot and I normally refrain from posting my opinion on matters that are subjective. I just wanted to share a counter argument with a quality example.
 
I have a custom color black nsx with blue mettalic flake in it and a ctsc. Would anyone like to buy it at the bargain price of 65,000?:biggrin: It is one of one. Save almost 15,000 dollars. Act now, supplies are limited.:cool:
 
Jinks said:
I have a custom color black nsx with blue mettalic flake in it and a ctsc. Would anyone like to buy it at the bargain price of 65,000?:biggrin: It is one of one. Save almost 15,000 dollars. Act now, supplies are limited.:cool:
Click to expand...

I'm not in the market but it sounds cool you want to post a picture?
 
attachment.php
It isn't worth 65k nor do I think Shade's car is worth that much. If he gets that much for it, then hey, who am I to judge? But here ya go....
 

Attachments

  • IMG_0820.jpg
    IMG_0820.jpg
    316.2 KB · Views: 553
Looks nice! like the all black and the side skirts. Do you have a pic that shows that blue metallic quality of the paint? I have a factory black one myself i love how they look against clear blue daylight.

Yeah I'm not sure 87.5K is realistic either...dont get me wrong that car is awesome I'd definitely be proud to own it. The ad just seems very "dealery" and I think thats whats drawn the ire of the NSX community. NSX people and probably exotics buyers in general are probably a little too sophisticated to respond well to that kind of dealership doubletalk and hyperbole.

You aren't selling a C5 corvette here for $15K and embellishing the collectibility, somebody who is going to spend ~$90K on an "investment car" and more importantly HAS 90K to spend probably does their homework.
 
GZtoSF said:
Looks nice! like the all black and the side skirts. Do you have a pic that shows that blue metallic quality of the paint? I have a factory black one myself i love how they look against clear blue daylight.

Yeah I'm not sure 87.5K is realistic either...dont get me wrong that car is awesome I'd definitely be proud to own it. The ad just seems very "dealery" and I think thats whats drawn the ire of the NSX community. NSX people and probably exotics buyers in general are probably a little too sophisticated to respond well to that kind of dealership doubletalk and hyperbole.

You aren't selling a C5 corvette here for $15K and embellishing the collectibility, somebody who is going to spend ~$90K on an "investment car" and more importantly HAS 90K to spend probably does their homework.
Click to expand...
PM me and I will see what I have in my pics. I did not want to take this thread off topic. But I agree that if someone tries to flip this car and get the mark up, than all the more power to them. It's a free market. However,,,,,,, trying to flip it on Prime under Bob's watchful eye? Not a good idear.....
 
Everything is about coming up. That super charger setup is scary and 87k would need to be an unmolested perfect nsx na2 in my opinion. 60k max.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
NSX was undervalued since forever. I smile when I see claims high mileage cars are not even worth 40k. In few years one would be willing to pay 50 for it without engine/transmission.
 
I think the original seller just got the color wrong like the inside. From Q&A on ebay listing: "Mirano red was the original color, repainted the same color in 2008. The repainting was just for restoration, not due to any damage to the car."
 
VERY IMPORTANT. I just looked at the pictures of this car on auto trader. It still has the original comptech stainless steel fuel lines for the supercharger kit in 1999. Note these lines with the newer fuel rotted from the inside out and could fail instantly and cause a fire. I changed mine 10 plus years ago. Also note that the car likely has the original fuel pressure regulator and bypass hose issues which would require supercharger removal to address. And the lysholm supercharger is likely to have gear lash noise issues and pulley bearing noise issues
 
Everyone here has a very valid point of view. But, one fact remains. These cars were produced in very limited numbers and the number of NSXs remaining is shrinking through normal attrition. For obvious reasons the very low mileage unmolested cars will command the highest prices to those who have a museum, collection hall or just like looking at them in the garage until they decide to sell them. Those folks are in the minority of NSX owners IMO. Most of us bought our cars to drive and enjoy to a greater or lesser extent. I believe it was Jay Leno who said "just drive them until they need restored again". If your NSX has more than 30K miles, it's highly unlikely to be a museum piece.

As far as mods go, and this is just my opinion, it would depend on how far away from OEM or JDM your car is modded and how the car is driven and maintained that could determine how much value if any your car would lose. Using my 02 Imola as an example, I believe I drive my car as it was intended by the designer and engineers at Honda. I have modified the car. But, my build was based on what would Honda and Shiguru Uehara do. So as many of the parts as possible are either JDM or OEM. The exception would be the Twin Turbo setup. However, even it is done in the way that Honda would have built it had they gone ahead with their plan to offer a twin turbo V6 on the NSX. Mr. Uehara told me they had plans for one very similar to my setup but the car was about to go out of production. In fact, NSX 2.0 is very similar except for the electric motors. Will all of this or mods to any of the cars hurt values. Maybe a little but, time will tell. It's my opinion that documentation is the key to any collector car value. And if the mod is true to the period and design of the car it should hurt value too much. I think, I can at least get all of the money I have spent on my car if I sold it today even with the mileage I've accrued over the past four years.

But, if you talk to high performance car collectors, use does not necessarily mean loss of value. If that were the case then there wouldn't be vintage car racing or rallys associated with and in some cases required at some of the world's great Concours events.

Back to Bob's post, the group of NSX owners is small and close knit for sure. That fact has it's pros and cons depending on your point of view. I've always said that if you are in the market for an NSX it's easy to do your research because of our members and the network we've built over 25 years. A majority of the cars Honda/Acura produced can be accounted for and someone within this community knows that car you're looking at. Then, we have RSO to fill in most of the blanks. I have no problem with anyone, dealer or private individual asking any price they want. The market will dictate what price the car will sell for. And if some among the group can assist with your research with knowledge of the cars prior sales that's fine also. Just as long as it is done factually with no agenda other than to help a future or current member with a decision. I love this group because for the most part, we are here to promote the car we're fortunate to own and increase all owner's enjoyment of the car.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Shane_A
NSX 02+ front hood VIS super GT full carbonfiber NEW
Replies
12
Views
4K
scott.s.
S
7tcatvert
Looking at getting Headers for my 91....
Replies
16
Views
5K
Honcho
Honcho
Back
Top