jh4na2136xt000034 - Purchased outside eBay for 50k last week

RSO 34

RSO 34

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Joined
28 March 2002
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I have no problems with dealers buying and selling cars to make a profit, but if anyone is looking at this car currently listed at $87,500 there should be plenty of bargaining room since it was purchased outside of ebays auction last week for $50k and dealer is looking to flip it on prime for a $37.5k profit. Once again, that's their business but I still like letting our members know the back story when going into a potential purchase.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/14227281707...9255-0%26rvr_id%3D1171477714259&ul_noapp=true
 
Whether I had purchased the car for $1.00 or $100,000 - would it make a difference? At the end of the day an item is worth what the market value says it's worth. All car dealers buy and sell cars to make a profit, as any business should. I have bought and sold 20+ NSX's to HAPPY customers. The reason being is I run an honest & upfront company. The NSX that I have listed for sale is rare, and will make somebody a great collectable car in my opinion. While this thread may deter people from thinking I have a good price, I believe someone will be happy with this car.
 
I see no problem with knowing the cost basis of the car.:cool:
 
I can't believe that this car was local to me. I never saw it around town and I don't check fleabay often. I would have bought this beauty for $50k and used it as my daily. Oh well.

Good luck with the sale and you have every right to make a profit. I wish I could make a $37k overnight.
 
I'm wondering how the selling price of $50,000 was determined? The auction was ended early by the seller and the highest bid was at $40,100.
 
You should be able to ask whatever you'd like for your car. After all, it is a free market and we're all capitalists here. That said, in this small group be ready for some blow-back if you're trying to flip a car for 43% margin in a week with people expressing their opinions.

Here's what I see that's desirable about the car:

Factory original NA2 coupe.

The issues that I see are as follows:

It has been repainted in a NON-NSX original color. Milano Red R81 wasn't available in North America as an NSX colour.
It has been repainted; apparently not due to damage, but there's no 100% accurate way to verify this.
Even though the car has been repainted, the paint doesn't appear to be in fantastic shape. If you look at the front 3/4 views of the car (9244 and 9248), you can see heavy swirlmarks in the fender/hood.
Orange peel. There is evidence of orange peel in the paint in image 9158. Who painted the car, and how much care did they take? You'll notice on a factory painted car, there was very little evidence of orange peel.
Red/Tan - I don't mind it, but it's a bit more polarizing than red/black.
The interior shows signs of wear. Especially noticeable on the drivers side bolster of the seat.
The car is not particularly low mileage at 42,000
mismatched tires. Sumitomo/Azenis. The Sumitomo are cheap tires and make me wonder how much the previous owner actually cared for the car.
The supercharger. Again, polarizing and it's hard to know how the previous owner beat on it. Let's be honest, you don't put forced induction on your car because your engine bay looked boring. You do it because you want to go faster.

Do I think you'll see $87.5k? I hope so; as a rising tide raises all boats, but I think it's a tough ask even though it is a rare NA2 coupe.

Another point of note. Most collectibles are that way because they remain in the same condition as they were manufactured. Not painted "just because" or with dealer installed options.
 
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Shade said:
Whether I had purchased the car for $1.00 or $100,000 - would it make a difference? At the end of the day an item is worth what the market value says it's worth. All car dealers buy and sell cars to make a profit, as any business should. I have bought and sold 20+ NSX's to HAPPY customers. The reason being is I run an honest & upfront company. The NSX that I have listed for sale is rare, and will make somebody a great collectable car in my opinion. While this thread may deter people from thinking I have a good price, I believe someone will be happy with this car.
Click to expand...

I see no issue in even asking $300k but FWIW a few flags were certainly thrown in my mind when I connected the dots after seeing the FS ad here on Prime stating one and only one owner and then seeing the ebay auction....even if zero nefarious activity took place, certainly the car was in the hands of at least one (or two) middlemen and therefore there wasn't one and only one "owner" in control of the vehicle (which is usually a big buying point to many)...here in this case I'm left wondering how a 3rd owner can now know so much about the original buyer/owner's behavior & actions. Even if any worry is unwarranted, having to piece this together myself instead of reading it upfront caused me some raised eyebrows as would likely happen to the 99% of prospective shoppers smart enough to google the VIN. Personally, I'd save the "One and only One" talk if you were the One. :) FWIW. GLWS!
 
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Yinzer-

The car is a 1 owner car. I purchased it from the guy who originally bought the car at Acura. I do not count as an owner, being a dealer. The next owner, will technically be the second owner of the vehicle. The car is very nice, and the market will end up deciding the eventual buying price.
 
Shade said:
Yinzer-

The car is a 1 owner car. I purchased it from the guy who originally bought the car at Acura. I do not count as an owner, being a dealer. The next owner, will technically be the second owner of the vehicle. The car is very nice, and the market will end up deciding the eventual buying price.
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Thanks Shade, so the ebay seller was the original owner? I see says the blind man. :) All I was trying to offer (which I probably didn't state very well) was that it'd probably make a few of us nebby Primers (and more importantly, shoppers) a lot less confused and curious if you clarified the 3 vs. 1 owner situation. I mean no harm here and was just sharing my thoughts when I stumbled upon the ad here & Ebay ad and just thought "wow." I have always stuck up for a good car's / good seller's reputation against potentially false or unnecessarily harmful speculation..... LINK

Seriously GLWS and to the happy eventual owner!
 
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Quote from the ad: "There is only one Red NA2 coupe with tan interior in the world, and this is it."

A rare car by any measure, but according to the NSX production numbers there are 3 Red/Tan coupes including this one. I can confirm that at least one of the other Red/Tan coupes still exists.
 
AEROBUFF said:
Quote from the ad: "There is only one Red NA2 coupe with tan interior in the world, and this is it."
Click to expand...

Be that as it may, the repaint kinda negates the use of that claim as a selling point IMO. I could repaint mine poo brown and say it's the only poo brown/pink NA1 coupe 1 of 1. Purity is king when one's selling a car as a collectible.
 
Thank you once again RSO 34.
 
Shade said:
Whether I had purchased the car for $1.00 or $100,000 - would it make a difference? At the end of the day an item is worth what the market value says it's worth. All car dealers buy and sell cars to make a profit, as any business should. I have bought and sold 20+ NSX's to HAPPY customers. The reason being is I run an honest & upfront company. The NSX that I have listed for sale is rare, and will make somebody a great collectable car in my opinion. While this thread may deter people from thinking I have a good price, I believe someone will be happy with this car.
Click to expand...


Did you find out why there is possible odometer rollback on carfax. I would understand DMV mistake, but dealer also?
 
Yeah, I agree there is nothing wrong with what the guy is doing. Nothing wrong with buying low and selling high. But also that strategy to be successful sometimes depends on people not having all the information available to them and sharing that information within a tight-knit enthusiast community isn't exactly dirty pool either.

It's entirely possible that the original seller on ebay didn't realize an NA2 coupe is so rare and just priced it based on what others sell for or perhaps understood all-too-well that in the minds of the purists a supercharged, non-factory color NSX is "damaged goods" in a sense. And not making a value judgment either way the purists are a HUGE part of the potential buying pool for exotics.

IMO the reason the NSX market pricing is so wonky is the limited supply makes for a huge gap between the "buy it today" price and the "sell it today" price.

I bought a completely stock 2002 NSX-T in excellent inspected condition with ~50K miles for less than $60K US this past November. But that's because I had a wanted ad right here on prime saying I'm ready to pay that for the right car, and the seller wanted a quick sale. But that took a few months of patience.

Tons of the NSX's you see listed at super high prices could be just people listing their cars at the price they couldn't refuse if somebody offered. And fair enough.

But people also need to be aware that quality NSX's, even the rare 02+ models, trade for less than $80K in practice it just takes patience to find a seller who wants to make a deal. If the price for the model I wanted really was $80K+, I might be driving a Ferrari 360 instead, which can be easily had for around 60K...though of course with much higher running costs that at the same price as the NSX made the acura a no-brainer for me!
 
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The other thing I think some sellers could be unrealistic.

There is a blue 02+ automatic with bright orange rims that I'd see listed continuously for almost a year on all the various sites. It's still on cargurus https://cargur.us/fsjYk

The ad would always be the same "owned by 85 year old" "selling to buy business" etc. I don't think that's true either about 1 of 2 with blue and tan. If that's true than rob ferretti has the only other one and I can see photos online of that combo.

Listed anywhere from the mid 70s to low 80s I think.

I'm sure that is somebody's dream car and hey maybe it sold for full asking price...but my hunch is that if that guy wants to make a deal it'll be in the 50s. Of the people who want an NSX...probably a strong majority wouldn't consider an auto at all, especially not at the same price and those orange rims (which all the photos that showed them now being removed!) are going to turn off a lot of people too.
 
RYU said:
I think the NA2 coupe is often overvalued by NSX owners only. I have a bunch of car enthusiast friends who aren't NSX fan boys that really can't make sense of the markups.

$0.02
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Right, i AM a big fan of the NSX...at least enough of a fanboy to go out and buy one! I think the NA2 coupes are interesting as items of rarity but then the NSX i wanted was an 02+ Targa (sue me I like the targa roof!) so I would not have paid any more for an NA2 coupe, or even the same price.
 
kennyvb said:
Be that as it may, the repaint kinda negates the use of that claim as a selling point IMO. I could repaint mine poo brown and say it's the only poo brown/pink NA1 coupe 1 of 1. Purity is king when one's selling a car as a collectible.
Click to expand...

I think your over-valuing purity / original paint. Below are examples of a collectible car with the same feature sets, akin to a NA2-T to NA2-T comparison, from the 2015 RM Auction.
http://www.rmsothebys.com/az15/arizona/lots/1966-jaguar-e-type-series-1-42-litre-roadster/1072215
http://www.rmsothebys.com/az15/arizona/lots/1965-jaguar-e-type-series-1-42-litre-roadster/1071753

An unrestored e-type is almost unheard of and that's why I could remember when it sold.
Here's the thing though, the restored e-type probably cost north of 100k to have restored and then when you add that to the purchase price, the unrestored might net the owner more money.
NSXs are new enough that there were people putting them in bubbles when they came out. I think there will be more to show up once prices really take off. These cars also require bubble collectors so it will be interesting to see what happens.

Doing a quality paint job on an NSX is a ton of work and a lot of money. Repainting a car that has a sub-par repaint is even more work and more money.
I wish I could have had an opportunity to bid on this thing, as I didn't think it was worth the 65k buy it now, when I saw it posted with the 3 crappy pictures.
Now I'm sort of relieved I don't have another NSX paint project in the queue. Although, I may have to take a run down to b-town and check this thing out in the next week or two.
[MENTION=20915]RYU[/MENTION] NA2 coupes rule.....NA1s and Ts drool! :smile:
Most of my non-NSX fanboys car enthusiast friends could care less about the NSX.
However, everything I read online inevitably someone mentions NA2 coupe. They have multiple facets that will make them collectible.

As an NSX enthusiast, I think NSXs are all special cars and the nuances are what make the different models more or less desirable to different people.
 
[MENTION=13572]cmc140[/MENTION] - no doubt they are special. I just don't think they are worth the markups. That's my own (and a subset of society) personal valuation so it's neither here nor there. This whole topic brings me back to 10 yrs when I was shopping for my NSX. The choice was 91-94 Coupe, NA2 Coupe, Zanardi, or 02+. Great topic :)
 
RYU said:
[MENTION=13572]cmc140[/MENTION] - no doubt they are special. I just don't think they are worth the markups. That's my own (and a subset of society) personal valuation so it's neither here nor there. This whole topic brings me back to 10 yrs when I was shopping for my NSX. The choice was 91-94 Coupe, NA2 Coupe, Zanardi, or 02+. Great topic :)
Click to expand...

It definitely all boils down to personal preference and the subjectivity of value. A subset of society also agrees with me. (maybe:smile:) The NSX is now almost fully in the collector car lane, whereas 10 years ago it wasn't. Values are derived differently by collectors than they were by enthusiasts. Rarity within a superb mark is a value variable in the equation.
 
I've been without an NSX for 3.5yrs. I considered another one, but to buy a 1991-1994 with close to 100k miles for $45k is insane. I ended up buying a 2004 Esprit with 23k miles. I sold it for a couple of reasons, the biggest reason was I came out ahead with a profit after owning it for 2.5 years. Fast foward to this past September when I got the itch to buy another car. I looked at NSX's again and the prices are just too inflated. There are now cars with over 150k miles with asking prices around $50k. I know they are just asking prices, however any vehicle with over 100k miles shouldn't be worth as much as some NSX owners believe. Also being that parts are now getting difficult to obtain, there was no way I was paying top dollar. I think there is a bubble coming on these cars with high mileage. The low mileage cars will always bring more money, but I like to drive my cars so I'd never buy one with super low miles.

For the above mentioned reasons, I'm going to sit on the sidelines, and in four or five years I'll pick up a gen2 NSX for less than 50% of it's MSRP new. :D
 

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