It's time to move on... Supra -> NSX

M

mav7

Registered Member
Joined
11 October 2004
Messages
16
Hello guys... Some of you may remember me from the 2004 National NSX meet in the finger lakes region. I currently own a red single turbo MKIV supra (~730rwhp) and have got it to the point where I really can't do much more besides go with a bigger turbo / built motor. I've always been a fan of NSXs but was always disappointed about their lack of power. After seeing the potential of a couple turbo NSXs, I figured it would be a fun project to tackle.

I was up at a Trackmasters event last week and saw a bunch of NSXs, which reminded me of how much I like them. I think it's time to move on- I'd be looking to build a reliable 550-600rwhp NSX for road racing events. Now I am very new to the Acura/Honda scene, so I will definetely be searching the forums here to read up on these cars. But if anyone could point me in the right direction on where to look and who to talk to, I'd greatly appreciate it. I want to start with a later model (98+) NSX and go from there.

I still love my supra and think it's incredible how you can get 700+rwhp out of a stock 2jz block, but I've been there, done that and it's time for another project.

-mike
 
I'm sorry, am I missing something here? Where could you use the 600 horses at road racing events? IMHO, you are looking for a change cuz you got bored with building a super fast, high hp Supra. Now you are getting a nsx and going to make it like one that you got bored??

Sorry If I sounded rude, I do understand that there's people only enjoy the Building a Monster process. My opinion on that is based on the fact that seems like the big hp jump will upset the car's balanced performance and prasied durability.

Generally, in road racing course, a very big horsepower car doesn't do too well without other hardware to make use the hp and also keeping the car in healthy state. I don't really know what do you use your Supra for, but I assume drag or street driving/racing. You will have around 1 1/2 to 2 hrs run time in a typical HPDE day, assuming your avg. run is 13 seconds or less, that's more than 530 qrt. miles runs..... ;)

oh, Welcome on Prime!!
 
As far as track time, I believe Mav spends far more time on a road course than anything else. If he doesn't now, he at least used to live a stones throw from Watkins Glen... so getting track time is not too much of a challenge for him.

Mav, sent you a pm.
 
I don't think that you will pull that much power in an NSX without a fully built motor. Factor X is pulling some serious HP on their car, but they have had a lot of R&D time and money to get there. They are not running it on a road course either. I would check out their website to see if this is the road you want to travel.
http://www.factorxengineering.com/main_nsx_1.htm
If you can do it, that would be sweet and you will have a lot of support from Prime members.
 
Mav-

If your interested in road race project car, I would shoot for the 4-450rwhp. In capable hands, a 400rwhp NSX will destroy almost every other street car on the track... even those with significantly more rwhp.

With the appropriate setup, you can turn up the wick on your boost controller to have some straight line fun.
 
Thanks for the honesty... But let me rephrase a little. The goal is to build a high-hp car that will be reliable on the track at 550-600rwhp levels. That doesn't mean I'll be running those power levels all the time. I would like to be able to run a lot more power on the street (reliably). Knowing that the NSX's weigh a lot less than the MKIV, I obviously don't need as much HP to be as fast as the supra... I was at Watkins Glen in the Supra on 23psi (that's about 600rwhp) and was able to use most of that power going through the corners. Granted I didn't get a chance to open it up for the entire track, I think that power level is very realistic for road racing.

NSX's are known for their unique styling, they obviously perform extremely well in handling but I bet many owners out there will agree that they lack power. Granted you don't need much power to perform well at a road course, this isn't going to be a track-only car. It will also be street driven just like my supra.

Having built a high-hp supra now to where it's exactly where I want it (all around track/drag/street car with good peak power yet great spool), it's time for a different project.

This NSX will be an all-around street car that can go to track events and drag strips...just like my Supra was. Except it will be more focused on track events due to the better weight advantage and great handling.

Thanks for the input
mike
 
my bad, Mike, didn't know you are one of those capable hands...

I had seen some supra's driver who claimed their car running 400+ on dyno, well, what could I say, my then stock nsx destroy it instantly with only 2 track expereiences... I think I only seen some mis-represented individuals...

Well, again, sorry for mis-judging you and keep us informed your project.
 
Several Issues

Mav7 - the horsepower threshold you are seeking is perhaps beyond the limit of the NSX engine's bottom end, even if it is not your daily driver, but especially if you participate in road course events. If my memory serves me correctly, the JGTC series NSXs make only about 5-600 HP and their engines are rebuilt on a regular basis.

There are several main aspects of the NSX to consider if you want the horsepower you seek - bottom end strengthening via splayed crankshaft main bearing cap bolts, improved transmission capability via cryogenic treating, improved cooling, huge brakes and reliable fuel / timing management. There may be other facets that others think are also important, but these are areas which I consider vital enhancements.

Now all the above said, there are several mega-horsepower success stories out there.....a large turbo, but I think he has CV joint issues.....another large turbo with nitrous, but I think he has timing issues.....a large super, but he has a custom air aftercooler.....two other large supers, but they have a custom water aftercoolers.

Best of results, as I live vicariously through your achievements.
 
NSXDreamer2 said:
my bad, Mike, didn't know you are one of those capable hands...

I had seen some supra's driver who claimed their car running 400+ on dyno, well, what could I say, my then stock nsx destroy it instantly with only 2 track expereiences... I think I only seen some mis-represented individuals...

Well, again, sorry for mis-judging you and keep us informed your project.
Click to expand...

No problem buddy. I definetely know where you are coming from, and will not disagree with the fact that there are many cocky supra owners. I don't have any reason to be dishonest, and this is indeed a serious thought I have. While I won't say I'm an experienced road racer, I do have quite a bit of track time and tons of street driving on 400+hp levels for 3 years now. And yes, I do live only 15-20 minutes from Watkins Glen :)

Sig: 4-500hp does seem perfect for road racing. I would probably only have the boost set at 12-14psi for road racing, which would most likely put me at those power levels. At the street, however, I'd need ~650rwhp to keep up with the supra :)

I will definetely talk to Factor X- I have seem them over on Supraforums and I've heard about their success stories. I do plan on rebuilding the motor to support this HP Range. I don't, however, want to rebuild it often. If I can't run 600hp all day long, I'll have to lower my HP goals (or get a little more creative in the engine building process.)

Many of you probably know Jason, who is one of the few to have a Factor X powered turbo-NSX. That thing at just 15psi walked me on the highway when I was running 16psi. I know he was running water injection to keep that thing cool and it was AEM powered. Since I have tuned my own Supra with an AEM, I would most likely use this same standalone ECU in the NSX.

Yellow Rose, thanks for the extremely helpful information. I will do more research on each of those methods and find out the costs involved with each.

I guess the way to start now is to find a good NSX to start with, do research and go from there. Depending on the cost of the project, I may have a street & track worthy NSX chilling next to the Supra :)
 
NSXCELERATE said:
400 doable, 600-650 all day long not doable

Edit: Buy a Gallardo and be done
Click to expand...

I agree. Using the FAQ for a price reference, the car would be atleast 45, then turbo, engine rebuild, brakes, wheels, suspension, header/exhaust, the AEM, and I am sure more.. Quick math:

45,000 Car
15,000 Turbo
5,000 Random engine rebuild costs(machining, cams, god knows)
4,500 Brakes
3,500 Wheels worthy of an NSX
1,200 Decent tires
2,000 Basic suspension upgrade
1,500 header/exhaust, this would be 3,000 but assuming this is partly turbo stuff
1,500 AEM

That brings the total to around $79,000, for a car that is now worth about $40,000; if that. Personally, that makes no sense to me. You could certainly get an F355 for less than that. Also, with the F430 outclassing the F360 you are getting close; as the Modena is just over $100,000

-Jeremy
 
Last edited:
jdc1687 said:
I agree. Using the FAQ for a price reference, the car would be atleast 45, then turbo, engine rebuild, brakes, wheels, suspension, header/exhaust, the AEM, and I am sure more.. Quick math:

45,000 Car
15,000 Turbo
5,000 Random engine rebuild costs(machining, cams, god knows)
4,500 Brakes
3,500 Wheels worthy of an NSX
1,200 Decent tires
2,000 Basic suspension upgrade
1,500 header/exhaust, this would be 3,000 but assuming this is partly turbo stuff
1,500 AEM

That brings the total to around $79,000, for a car that is now worth about $40,000; if that. Personally, that makes no sense to me. You could certainly get an F355 for less than that. Also, with the F430 outclassing the F360 you are getting close; as the Modena is just over $100,000

-Jeremy
Click to expand...


Or, he could get an OBDI NSX that already has most of the supporting mods done for less than $30,000. Then add a turbo package for 10-20K depending on how ambitious he wanted to get. In fact, I believe there are a few turbo options on the horizon that will be sub $10K that will get you to the low 400's rwhp.
 
mav7 said:
Hello guys... Some of you may remember me from the 2004 National NSX meet in the finger lakes region. I currently own a red single turbo MKIV supra (~730rwhp) and have got it to the point where I really can't do much more besides go with a bigger turbo / built motor. I've always been a fan of NSXs but was always disappointed about their lack of power. After seeing the potential of a couple turbo NSXs, I figured it would be a fun project to tackle.

I was up at a Trackmasters event last week and saw a bunch of NSXs, which reminded me of how much I like them.

Mike:
Were you there for the touring laps with the Camp Good Days Kids? I thought I saw your Supra, but I wasn't sure. You should have stop by our parking area. Either DocJohn or I would have given you a spirited NSX ride.:) May be next yeat you'll join us with your NSX.
Click to expand...
 
Peter Mills said:
mav7 said:
Hello guys... Some of you may remember me from the 2004 National NSX meet in the finger lakes region. I currently own a red single turbo MKIV supra (~730rwhp) and have got it to the point where I really can't do much more besides go with a bigger turbo / built motor. I've always been a fan of NSXs but was always disappointed about their lack of power. After seeing the potential of a couple turbo NSXs, I figured it would be a fun project to tackle.

I was up at a Trackmasters event last week and saw a bunch of NSXs, which reminded me of how much I like them.

Mike:
Were you there for the touring laps with the Camp Good Days Kids? I thought I saw your Supra, but I wasn't sure. You should have stop by our parking area. Either DocJohn or I would have given you a spirited NSX ride.:) May be next yeat you'll join us with your NSX.
Click to expand...


Yes, that was me. That event was indeed a good time and I can't wait to do it next year. I would have taken you up on that ride!

So you say why build a turbo NSX when I can get a ferarri for cheaper? Well the same reason I dumped all this money into the supra... the fun in doing it. Buying a 500hp car from the factory is boring. I love the satisfaction of modifying my own cars... Started with the supra when it was practically bone stock and look where I am now... $40,000 later... I love nice exotic cars and also like the fealing that I can fix it when it breaks. If I break a ferarri, that's going to hurt my wallet. If I brake an NSX (or a Supra), I'm sure the parts aren't *that* expensive.

Knowing that NSXs are 30K + to begin with, it probably won't be turbo anytime soon until I save up some money from work or sell the supra. But after all the investment in the Supra, I'm not ready to part with it. I figure pick the NSX up, drop an AEM in it, do suspension mods, put decent wheels on, and take it to a few track events to get familiar with it's handling. Then, go for the ultimate street car build.

I want to say thanks everyone for your criticism/comments. It's very cool that you guys are honest and willing to help a non-NSX member. Maybe I set my power goals too high, but I remember reading that one of AEM's drag cars has a NSX motor making 1000+rwhp. I figured 600rwhp would be doable (and reliable, too) with a decent buildup. If not, 400rwhp would still make one hell of a street/track car. One of my good buddies mentioned the new NSX coming out will be powered by a V-10... That sounds promising!
Click to expand...
 
Hey there,I am the guy with the "bumblebee" nsx.I would say if you saw Sig's turbo nsx at expo,thats about as much streetable hp as I think you'll get.Anything is possible with time and $,but if you intend to track the car more than 2-3 times a year,you may want to go with a tuned supercharger,iether way spend time on this site reading the faqs and through threads in our forced induction section,it has all been discused before.
 
no sense buying a 98+ if you're going high-hp turbo. Get a 91 with high mileage and do a rebuild/sleeve it's the only way to go, the chassis will stil be good of course, and it's a coupe which would be much better for road racing
 
Just to let you know, the AEM will not work with an OBD2 (95+) NSX. You would need to look at Tec3, HKS etc.

From what I understand, it is easier to get more power out of the 3.0 engine, though Devin is getting A LOT from the 3.2.

The nicest feature of the 3.2 is the 6-speed tranny. If you don't really care about that, I would go with a 94. That will cost you 10-15K less than a nice 98.

Best of luck!
 
Yeah, I saw a good amount of Sig's NSX (mainly his taillights) when he was at the 2004 expo. It definetely seems like a solid street/track car.

I didn't know you couldn't run the AEM in an OBDII NSX, sorry about my lack of research. Obviously going with a OBDI NSX would be the better choice after reading this thread. In addition, I wouldn't have to meet the harsh inspection requirements in NYS. It was hard enough getting my OBDII supra inspected. And plus, I wouldn't have to tear up a beautiful newer NSX. Targa would be nice for a street car... It would probably have a cage anyway since I plan on doing several track events.

The 6-speed tranny would be very nice, but for track purposes that would mean going through gears more often! :P

Looks like I'm changing the target car to a 91 or so with the 3.0, 5-speed and hardtop. That will allow me to spend more money on the motor.

Thanks again for the insight. When I find time I will go through the forum and research more.
 
all 91-94 are coupes, and yeah the newer models have throttle by wire, which can't work with the EMS.


Def go with a 91 if you want a project.
 
I am assuming you will be building the motor before you do anything, but just incase you want to do otherwise, I would tell you the OEM Heag Gaskets do not hold up well to high boost. Honda switched to a MLS design in 97, vs the graphite composite in earlier cars.
 
Mav,

Here is some friendly advice from an Ex-Supra guy also:)

Do not go with the 6spd if you want to make Supra type power.

if you are OBDI go with the AEM since you are familiar with it .

If you are OBD II go with the HKS-FCON V-Pro, I’m sure you know about it.

Being 3.0 v 3.2 has no bearing on the power you will make as you will bore to 3.2 anyways, use the MLS gasket.

While you are there do the head work.

500rwhp is doable all day long, and in our opinion near the max for RR. Unless you have the skills of many of the hotshoes here:)

600+rwhp all day long we don’t really know…

If you are rebuilding the bottom end for power, definitely upgrade the rods.

Unless the people are making the power or, have made the power, go to the source for information.
 
Factor X Motorsports said:
Mav,
Unless the people are making the power or, have made the power, go to the source for information.
Click to expand...
Good point.. Speculation just makes it confusing..
 

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