Is War Worth it!?

selected paragraphs:

Iraq’s Most Wanted

According to a Jordanian official who met with the Kamel brothers often, the standards for cruelty were set at the top, with Saddam himself. When one of his Republican Guard in charge of supplies at the presidential palaces was caught stealing soaps in the early 1990s, a court sentenced the guard to a few months in prison. That wasn’t enough for the dictator. “Who steals from Saddam will betray Saddam,” he declared, and had the man killed. He forced the guard’s brother, another close aide, to attend the execution and to smile as it happened. An Iraqi doctor who attended an informal dinner party with Jordanian intelligence officials, among others, was summoned back to Baghdad under suspicion of treason. Jordanian officials later confirmed that Saddam fed the man to starving dogs on one of Saddam’s farms.

Uday Hussein, the elder of Saddam’s sons, “should have been committed to an asylum long ago,” says another senior Jordanian official who knew him in the 1990s. A sadistic playboy, Uday was notorious for raping any woman he coveted, and in one horrific incident bludgeoned one of his father’s trusted aides to death. Crippled in a 1996 assassination attempt, Uday has since lost his status as heir apparent to younger brother Qusay, who is now effectively his father’s second in command, charged with overseeing the entire security apparatus and, now, the defense of Baghdad.


When the Kamel brothers were “in a good mood,” remembers a Jordanian official who met with them often, they traded atrocity stories. Hussein Kamel had overseen the program to build weapons of mass destruction and liked to style himself “the father of the Iraqi atomic bomb,” which, fortunately, was never finally built. When Jordan’s King Hussein asked Hussein Kamel what had happened to the missing chemical and biological weapons, Kamel said they’d been destroyed but wouldn’t want to say just where, because the site also held mass graves. “They were completely nuts,” says the Jordanian official.


Hussein Kamel boasted about the punishment he meted out to an aide who failed to carry out a task he’d been given in the assigned time. “Hussein Kamel forced him to drink a bottle of gasoline and then got an incendiary bullet and shot him in the stomach.” Perhaps embroidering the tale, and amid gales of laughter, the brothers claimed the man exploded. Saddam Kamel was proud of the time he beat a member of the Republican Guard “until his brain came out of his ear.” But both agreed that another relative, Saddam’s paternal cousin Ali Hassan al-Majid, “was the hero,” the Jordanian says. “He was the one who killed the most.” Known as “Ali Chemical” for his role in gassing Kurds in northern Iraq, al-Majid was also the savage governor of Kuwait after the invasion, and played a leading role in slaughtering rebellious Iraqi Shiites in 1991. In 1996 the Kamel brothers, who’d failed to win support for overthrowing Saddam, made the mistake of going back to Iraq. And Ali Chemical killed them, too. He’s now one of the Dirty Nine.
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Some real bad asses, who deserve to be wiped from the face of the Earth.
 
I'll say this...

All the people who were saying that the inspectors should have had more time and no military action was indicated will, in a few months, look very foolish and wrong.

The lies and horrors of the Saddam regime will be laid bare and will shock the world.

It will be obvious that the problem wasn't simply WMDs, but mass murder and torture that will bring to mind what was found upon the collapse of Hitler's regime.

Just this morning the Brits stumbled across an abandoned Iraqi base that contained hundreds of executed Iraqis. And like the anal-retentive Nazis who fortunately documented everything, it appears that the Iraqi butchers took the time to take pictures and make notes on each of executed.

These atrocities would have never been discovered by the UN inspectors and even if Saddam complied with the UN resolutions, these murders would have continued unabated.

I have no doubt that history will view the liberation of Iraq in the same light as the victory in Germany in WWII.

-J
 
trial for war crimes

When the US captures saddam and his sidekicks, instead of shipping him to the international warcrimes tribunal to live in relative luxury while it takes 20yrs to prosecute him, i hope they do try this:

Drop saddam & other bad guys in the middle of a desert...far far away... and tell them what is about to happen: that a B2 bomber is about to drop a nuke on them. Vapourize 'em... they don't deserve a proper grave.
 
Holy cow, you guys are still arguing with this guy who obviously has no ability to hold coherent thoughts let alone debate!?
I came to this country from Hong Kong in 1982 with a dream: Life will be better in America. I was 18 then and later went to UC Berkeley where I was surrounded by pot and LSD-doubled fried brained hippies. For awhile I thought this country sucked. But as I grew older and perhaps wiser, my love and loyalty to this country heighten. USA is by no means flawless. We can lie down holding the bonks and criticize this place for years.( Isn't this what these brain dead hippies do all day?) However, I truly believe that this is the best country in the world, hands down. Many Americans have NO CLUE how pampered and privileged they are and in turn ABUSE their privileges. Burning flags should be a CRIME. These idiots simply abuse this "Freedom of Speech." By burning a flag, they are condeming the very origin of what gives them the "right of speech" to begin with AND the American people. Go ahead, go to China, Italy, or ANYWHERE in this world to burn their flags and see yourself shredded in pieces. It is pathetic that these people do this while being in the security, luxury, and comfort provided by what our troops are fighting for. Disgraceful indeed!
 
And seriously, this is a free country. You are here to enjoy EVERYTHING that this country gives you when you choose to. What makes this place so awesome also is that YOU ARE FREE TO PACK YOUR BAG IF YOU DON'T THINK THIS PLACE IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU! And God bless America and TRUE Americans. I will always be thankful to be allowed to live here, to get my education here, to have the opportunities to persue my dream, and many other things. I am proud to be an American citizen who has sworn loyalty to the greatest place on earth.
I pray to have our troops returned quickly and safely after liberating Iraq.
Thank you very much!
Steve
 
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whiteNSXs said:
And seriously, this is a free country. You are here to enjoy EVERYTHING that this country gives you when you choose to. What makes this place so awesome also is that YOU ARE FREE TO PACK YOUR BACK IF YOU DON'T THINK THIS PLACE IS GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU! And God bless America and TRUE Americans. I will always be thankful to be allowed to live here, to get my education here, to have the opportunities to persue my dream, and many other things. I am proud to be an American citizen who has sworn loyalty to the greatest place on earth.
I pray to have our troops returned quickly and safely after liberating Iraq.
Thank you very much!
Steve
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well said, I completely agree! :)
 
Looks like we've found some of the chemicals...

Posted on Sun, Apr. 06, 2003

Troops, journalists undergo cleanup for nerve gas exposure

By TOM LASSETER
Knight Ridder Newspapers

ALBU MUHAWISH, Iraq - U.S. soldiers evacuated an Iraqi military compound on Sunday after tests by a mobile laboratory confirmed evidence of sarin nerve gas. More than a dozen soldiers of the Army's 101st Airborne Division had been sent earlier for chemical weapons decontamination after they exhibited symptoms of possible exposure to nerve agents.
 
Gee, I wonder if there's going to be any anti-war protests this weekend?

Ya think?
 

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Jimbo said:
Gee, I wonder if there's going to be any anti-war protests this weekend?

Ya think?
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Believe it or not there will be in Seattle.

This city is full of the most misguided uninformed liberals. But what do you expect from a state that elected Jim "Baghdad" McDermott and Patty "bin Laden" Murray.

After all, the protesters just got their welfare checks and it is peak of the mushroom season.
 
:rolleyes:
 
"Idealism untempered by reality"....... well said Huck.

There is a niche of society that is completey incapable of marrying their principles to situational context. Truely mind-boggling.

This is the same group of people (and countries for that matter) that are more fearful that the U.S. made the right decision than they are of potential consequences of their own wrongness*.

*wrongness=new English word fabricated by me.
 
Jane Fonda targets 'ignorant' Americans

Ignorant Fonda does it again...

http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030410.wxrvfond/BNStory/Entertainment

Jane Fonda targets 'ignorant' Americans

The star came out at a Vancouver lecture sticking it to Americans and lauding Canadians for compassion, ALEXANDRA GILL says
By ALEXANDRA GILL
With files from Canadian Press

VANCOUVER — ''Hanoi'' Jane is back in action and she's raring to take on the U.S. government once again. Calling her fellow U.S. citizens ''ignorant,'' Jane Fonda condemned the war in Iraq while speaking in Vancouver Tuesday night.

"It's hard to imagine a happy ending to the U.S.-led war in Iraq," Fonda told a cheering, sold-out crowd at the Orpheum Theatre. "What it's going to mean for [America's] stability as a nation, for terrorism, for the economy, I can't imagine. I think the entire world is going to be united against us."

Fonda's comments, her first on the war in Iraq, were made during an appearance at the Unique Lives and Experiences lecture series. Fonda was parachuted in as a last-minute replacement for actress Marlo Thomas, who cancelled because of travel and security concerns.

....
 
To those of you who are too young to know. Jane Fonda was a B-movie actress who did not have much of an education. She made her fame by kissing up to the Vietnam Communists and wearing close to nothing on movies. She probably would have made a much better career in "Hooters" if the franchise existed in the 60's.
 
geez, thats a little harsh. She actually was from all indications in line for a pretty good career, and her vocal stance on vietnam created controversy that hurt her.

As I recall, she was REALLY over the top on her criticism of vietnam war. Beyond what could have been 'good press' for her at the time.

This 'rerun' is really sad. Different times and much different war.

Irregardless, I do respect people willing to sacrifice public opinion in order to speak their mind, whether i agree or disagree.

I'm always curious when people are arguing against this war based upon 'repercussions and reprisal'. When did 'doing the right thing' not have a price? Whether or not it is the 'right thing to do' is the question and always the most difficult to answer. Fear of repercussions is secondary. I think Jane needs to revise her argument.
 
I'll bet we will be hearing many more stories like this, confirming what our government has been telling us.
 
So where are the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq??

I realize that "Saddam has to be stopped" and all that...

but isnt the whole reason we went to topple Saddam to remove the weapons? (and of course to remove him from power... which no one seems to be grateful for: http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/18/sprj.irq.arab.voices/index.html )

So where are the WMD?!

and what the hell is this? ::

"Syria, consequently, will not allow any weaponry inspection on its territory. It will, instead, actively cooperate with the rest of the world to make the Middle East a zone free from mass destruction weapons," Sharaa added.

Talk about hypocrisy... geez

So I guess Syria is next on the list to be "removed from power if they dont disarm" eh?

-Electro
 
WMDs?

There are none. We did it for the oil. And to kill innocents.

Feel better?
 
Jimbo, I thought you were done w/ this thread?

Stop wasting your time ... You obviously dont agree with me so STFU....

I'd rather have a real debate about real issues...

I'm sorry for being sarcastic in past replies... but that was not the way I started the thread. I was only responding in a way that I was being approached to my legitimate questioning of current issues. This thread was *supposed* to be a forum where we could discuss important issues and not resort to personal attacks... I figured the nsx board would be the "best" place to bring up these important issues with people that are among the mid to upper class... But with any demographic, there are exceptions... and it looks like you are one of those exceptions.

So lets just agree to disagree. I'd rather speak to someone who actually see's my questions as valid one's than anti-american statements. (which they have never been) As an American I have the right to question ANYTHING ... because if the gov't is going to use MY MONEY for tasks that I dont agree with, then I WILL question it. Do you have a problem with that? You obviously do. So again, STFU and let other's reply with *valid* arguements instead of immature personal attacks.

-Electro
 
Personal attacks?

I made no personal attacks against you.

Boy, you're about as accurate as Baghdad Bob!
 

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