Interesting comparo at the viper forum

Pfft... SRT 10...

try to take a turn in that turd.. straight into a wall.. it's awesome alright, until you try to turn.. then you find yourself doing 360's into a tree, then light the forest on fire and launch from the car itself!!!

enjoy that testdrive!

I think the guys at top gear summed up the srt pretty well "We have NO idea the limits on this car, one second you are in control the next you are not.. I would NEVER recommend this car, it's complete RUBBISH" <-topgear
 
Patrico and SexyNSX,

Your assertions and assumptions on my knowledge and experience demand a response.

Facts and personal observations on the Lotus Esprit.

Frame:
There is none. Just a chassis made out of light gauge, mild steel.
Undo the body mounts, if memory serves me right there's about eight, oh yeah I've been there and done this, HAVE YOU or SEXYNSX?

Here's a picture of what you will find. BTW that metal is not aluminum. It's old technology mild steel.
v8_chassis.jpg


That's it! Now when you two boys are out riding together you are sitting to the right and left of the center rail on a floor of hand laid, fiberglass that is about 1/4-3/8ths of a inch thick. How safe are ya? Dated design?

There is no frame surrounding you. Most kit cars have tube frames that surround the occupants. Not here though.

Now a 1963-67 Corvette has the same type of fiberglass body(after that they switched to a better grade until they did away with fiberglass in 1982 and switched to sheet molded compound SMC).
It also had a frame of mild steel but it went around the perimeter, offering some protection to the people inside, but this car does not. It still was like driving a Molotov cocktail, and so is the Esprit.

It should have a unit structure with crush zones and made out of HSLA steel or varying grades of aluminum. Both are technologies that are about 25 years ahead of this design.

Now the suspension on this car is so great right? Talk about dated.
Look up there in the front boys. See the top of the control arms. That's where the camber shims are. SHIMS. Not a CENTRIX but shims like the OLD DAYS. You do know what a centrix is don't ya boys?

Now when you went in to get a computerized alignment on any of your modern cars you might of noticed the tech adjusting the camber and watching the screen as he went, dialing it in.

Not with this car. Uh Uh.
This is how you do it to a Esprit.
You set it up, measure and record. If the camber is out you go to the top of the control arm and add or subtract the PROPRIETARY shims that are there. I mention that they are proprietary because they are not off the shelf shims and if you need one or more you call, NJ, Atlanta or California and hope they have what you want.

Now the last time I got lucky. I was able to take a shim from one side and compensate the other enough to get the car in spec.
Now each time you move a shim you put it back together and start over again. Now, you know this right? Like me you've done this before right?

Now about that tranny. Get under the car while it is on the lift. You have two tranny mounts in the rear to the right and left of case.
Now look above your head. See that bulge in the floor? Tell me do you know why it is there?
Well that is so that when the tranny when placed under torque and lifts up, yes read me right, when it lifts it won't hit the fiberglass floor.
Why don't they make a better tranny mount? Too hard, too sophisticated. Easier to make a bulge in the floor.

Fellows there are so many soft spots on the Esprit that to compare it to a Viper or NSX, it is easy to come off as sounding mean. I don't want to do that. I do respect your passion but you keep provoking and kicking sand, or try to.

I have been a fan of Lotus since I saw my first Elan in our shop, when Iwas a young'in, probably before you two were born.
One of my all time favorite cars is the Green Formula One Lotus driven to victory by Jim Clark.
I like the Lotus but it's no Viper Killer or NSX walker.

You two are buddies and like riding together and come to one and other's defense so I understand. Please be careful and don't let anything hit you when your out cruising because it won't be hitting a car, it will be hitting YOU.

The Esprit looks great. Stunning. Timeless.
I really love the look and it is fun to drive. I just said it wasn't walking from a NSX. I didn't mean to make it personal, you just took it that way and kept it up.

Goodnight, and for heaven's sakes, don't be wiring up your privates looking to see if it is as much fun as a NSX. What happened to that poll? Lud no like?:biggrin:
 
Pbjasso,

There appears to be a TOTAL BREAKDOWN in communication between you and I..

What I am defending is the performance figures of said cars..

You arguments seems to be this:

The esprit has a fiberglass chassis! and it uses some dated technology in it.. therefore it can't WALK and NSX or keep up with a VIPER..

I just have to ask you, what in the name of HELL does the technology behind the esprit have anything to do with it's acceleration figures?

Hell the new Lotus Elise doesn't have power steering and the steering column is as basic as it gets, the chassis is held together by EPOXY and it can do the slalom faster than a CARRERA GT.. so what in the name of GOD is your point?


I can care LESS about how the esprit was built/designed.. I am simply talking PERFORMANCE of the BLOODY CAR.. not why the gearbox is buldging or not..

Christ man do you even READ the posts I write?

YES the Esprit V8 Stock WILL walk an NSX in a straight line, no question it is a faster car that way.

YES a stock Gen 2 Viper WILL walk the ESPRIT since it is faster in a straight line ( I merely mentioned that MY particular esprit will beat the Gen 2 I owned, but my car is not stock)

This is exhausting communicating with you man, you are a king of useless and irrelevant information when trying to make a point, reading your last post it would seem that I was defending the esprit's technology, which I never did.

I am not coming here telling you that the esprit has fantastic design, most of the car still uses 1976 technology (as you clearly stated) the bottom line is Lotus has managed to create a killer performing car in their v8's and yes a car than is faster than the NSX.

And please don't go talking to me about design technology in the Viper, I have been inside and outside the viper and the car is as basic as it gets.. there is hardly any science in that car. There is FAR more racing technology in the Esprit than the Gen 2 Vipers..

Now the NSX was built by true masters, and besides the comparatively weak powerplant the car is a work of genius.. I NEVER contested that <----

My argument was and still is this..(Are you paying attention pbjasso? because this is important)-->

The stock esprit v8 is a faster car than the NSX in a straight line, STOCK..

That is all I was trying to say.... is it faster on a tight curvy track? dunno.. possibly not.. I never mentioned that.. I simply argued your "walk" comment.


Patricio is a friend yes, but he wasn't the only one who chimed in here.. Esprit1 (who owns both NSX and Esprit) also agreed with me as well as others.

Whew..:redface:
 
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Well again, the Viper technologically is way ahead of the Esprit. I can't see how that can be denied.

What specific technology do you seem to think the Esprit possesses that overshadows the Viper's, particularly the Gen2?
Please be specific. Educate me.

As for being track worthy, it was a LeMans class winner (1999?) and two-time Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) GT2 Champion and continues to do well. Obviously it can be driven and driven well.
I can't remember seeing a Esprit compete in the past 10 or more years at Lime Rock. Track days by owners but not seriously raced. I could be wrong, I just don't recall.

What happened to the Viper you had? What made you decide to move on?

Calling a fellow's car a turd that will set a forest on fire a few posts back is exactly the insensitivity that you accuse me of.
 
pbassjo said:
Well again, the Viper technologically is way ahead of the Esprit. I can't see how that can be denied.

What specific technology do you seem to think the Esprit possesses that overshadows the Viper's, particularly the Gen2?
Please be specific. Educate me.

As for being track worthy, it was a LeMans class winner (1999?) and two-time Federation Internationale de l'Automobile (FIA) GT2 Champion and continues to do well. Obviously it can be driven and driven well.
I can't remember seeing a Esprit compete in the past 10 or more years at Lime Rock. Track days by owners but not seriously raced. I could be wrong, I just don't recall.

What happened to the one you had? What made you decide to move on?

there you go.

Bat™
 
pbassjo said:
What happened to the Viper you had? What made you decide to move on?

Calling a fellow's car a turd that will set a forest on fire a few posts back is exactly the insensitivity that you accuse me of.

My friend tried to take a turn and destroyed the car, not just a dent mind you, totally destroyed.. totalled, bend frame the whole shabang..

Other than that I enjoyed it, but it in no way was a more balanced/better handling car than the NSX or Esprit.

The forest fire comment is from a well known accident in a Gen 3, someone lost control at 160 the car went across the median and slid into the offramp grass, igniting the entire place.. some hilarious pics on viperalley.com the guys name is "supersquirrel" or something post is called "almost lost my life part 2"

Besides I owned a Viper, I obviously liked it..

Pbjasso I have one question for you though..

Why is it you fail to awknoledge the main topic of this ENTIRE FRIGGIN DISCUSSION

You made a claim "A V8 esprit is about as fast as a first model NSX"
I posted plenty of evidence to the contrary. including magazine numbers as well as my personal experience and even the power/weight ratio..


Now, here is the rear kick, I might have to use bold here because you just don't seem to be reading what I am writing..
Why do you keep on insisting on changing that topic/subject?

I still am waiting to hear your answer on how a 270hp/3000 lb car can outaccelerate a 350hp/3000lb car according to just the laws of physics alone..


Once you FINALLY respond to that then we can continue into your other issues, like Viper design...
 
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SexyNsx said:
I still am waiting to hear your answer on how a 270hp/3000 lb car can outaccelerate a 350hp/3000lb car according to just the laws of physics alone..

C5 Corvette: 350 horsepower, basically the same weight as a NSX.
0-150-0 the NSX beat it. It's in a magazine, your territory.

Side by side about even depending on the drivers.

Too bad a magazine can't teach people how to drive huh, SEXYNSX.

Stock to stock a Esprit is not walking a NSX. I never said it will out accelerate. You did. You keep taking free exchange with my comments and inserting your own silly nonsense.

Here's some real world time slips on Esprits.

http://www.dragtimes.com/Lotus--Esprit-Drag-Racing.html

Care to add yours?

Here's the same site with NSX's

http://www.dragtimes.com/Acura--NSX-Drag-Racing.html


Now YOU talked about your mods. You mentioned your five point harness. You mentioned what you THINK the horsepower is based on what the guy who sold you your car supposedly got on a dyno. Yeah that's hard facts, sure.:rolleyes:
SexyNsx said:
my normally stock 350hp car now can do 440-450hp at the crank!
:rolleyes:

Just because you say so? Have you dynoed it? Have you raced it in the QM to back up your acceleration claims?

No. You come up with :I installed a ECU and a new exhaust and I'm 100 crank hp more. No dyno sheet, just a claim.
No time slips ,just your feel and whatever some mag writes that makes you feel like you made a good purchase.

Just because you don't understand much about cars beyond buying one and letting friends crash them for you, you assume everyone else knows no better.

How come you never answer any of my questions in my posts?
You can, can't you?

I have yo go, I'm late for my Lions meeting.
 
Now look who is making the assumptions..

You just made about 20 claims about my car and my situation.. Without knowing any of it..

C5 corvettes (non z06 can do 0-60 in mid 4's manual but QM is usually always over 13.0) yes that is close to a NSX.. but we aren't talking about those cars.. we are talking esprit/nsx

and yes, I know for a fact what my car is capable of..

I wasn't the one who crashed my Viper BTW.. my skills are definitely adequate..

Why don't you ask Esprit1 or someone else about the Chip mods for the esprit, the power upgrade is pretty consistent and the chip has been dynoed plenty.. I'm sure you can find some online.. and Yes i know my car's Dyno.

Yeah I'm looking at your dragtimes.. and I see some 13.9's from a almost new NSX.. the esprit's has 3 dragtimes listed man.. of the 2 v8's only 1 was over 12 (13.1) you've proved nothing with this poop website.. you aren't going to find a crapload of people taking a Lotus Esprit to the track just like you won't se a ton of diablo's there.. come on man..

"Just because you don't understand much about cars beyond buying one and letting friends crash them for you, you assume everyone else knows no better.
"

<-- What don't i understand? what exactly are you teaching me.. besides submitting yet ANOTHER post where you are avoid the topic I have repeatedly asked you..

You think I need to read a magazine to feel good about the purchase? I could have purchased another viper if all I wanted is straightline speed, or I could have purchased an NSX if I wanted reliability.. I wanted an Esprit.. I can CARE less about the mods or performance numbers, I would have enjoyed it without them.. I plan to pick up a 90' Testarossa and that is a 5 second car to 60 and I can care less.. Driving the Esprit is bliss to me.. as I'm sure the NSX is to you.

I love the NSX.. awesome car.. better designed than the viper or esprit, no question.. it's better designed than a diablo and many ferrari's as well..

but it is not faster in a straight line than any of them..

that is all I was trying to say..

You are very passionate and I respect that.. but you are also behaving very bullheaded..

I posted in this thread awhile back making a statement something like

"The Viper, Esprit and NSX are all incredible cars that we are all fortunate enough to own"

Why can't you just accept that every car has a strength and weakness?
 
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Blue Batmobile said:
I've owned both 2nd gen and 3rd gen. I Love both ;)

QUOTE]


Blue Batmobile those are some AWESOME looking vipers.. Jesus Christ..

How do you compare the Gen 2 GTS to your Gen 3 Coupe?

here is mine (crappy cellphone pics)

viper2.jpg

viper1.jpg
 
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I read the Viper Dealio, I think we should respect all these cars and enjoy them and not bash each other over the head with specs, test results, E.T.s etc. Everything looks good on paper...

Guys, its like this...your not saying the Read Head is hotter than the Blond because she has DD cups and 6" stillettos...so how about we just appreciate what you have and show a little respect for those who aren't as fortunate.:smile:

Anyway, nice pics Bat! I really like the Blue Coupe.
 
SexyNsx said:
After my unforunate incident where my beloved NSX cartwheeled into a quarry in flames and landed on it's top.. Yes I would agree the insurance was quite acceptable and even agreeable to a young lad such as myself.

As you can imagine the insurance company, chose to blame ME for this, and not at the very least my woman's brother.. who was working out 3 times a week that summer and was sporting some nice abs and a low BMI index.. The man looked fantastic.. like a chiseled greek statue, the kind with the flacid yet powerful looking members

Taken from: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?p=680873#post680873

You owned a NSX?:eek: :biggrin:
 
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SexyNsx said:
Blue Batmobile said:
I've owned both 2nd gen and 3rd gen. I Love both ;)

QUOTE]


Blue Batmobile those are some AWESOME looking vipers.. Jesus Christ..

How do you compare the Gen 2 GTS to your Gen 3 Coupe?

here is mine (crappy cellphone pics)

viper2.jpg

viper1.jpg

Gen 3 is definately more refined. Plus 60 more hp vs gen 2's 450hp. I love the look of the gen 2's, but now that I have a gen 3, it looks alot sleeker and more up to date :).

Bat™
 
There are soo much posted here by both parties that I can't agree more with. Unfortunately, I also see the guarded pride in both that is turning this into an unproductive thread. May I offer my humble opinion on a few points mentioned based on my personal experience with my 93' NSX and 98' Esprit, both of which I concurrently owned and actively driven for over 6yrs.

93' NSX
A work of art and an engineering marvel. In stock form, it is a very well balanced and civilized package that one can take to work or grocery shopping daily. On weekends, the same can be said on the track and still turn-in respectable numbers. What it sorely lack is power and character. In a QM, roll-on, or a fast track, my stock Esprit can easily "walk" my NSX. At my age and condition.......it is more like running........Laugh!

On the other hand, I'll gladly trade a bit of character for the bullet proof reliability that the NSX offers. Furthermore, in stock form, the suspension and chassis is spot on. It gives just the right amount of feedback and is very progressive at its limits. Esprit will have an extremely tough time trying to loose the NSX on a slow track. Finally, build quality of the NSX speaks for itself. I'll not attempt to repeat what soo many people had said before me.

98' Esprit
In Champman's philosophy, if it doesn't fall apart at the end of a race, it is over build. That kind of sums up the build quality of my Esprit. I have to plan my route carefully before taking her out and long distance trip is pretty much out of the question. And little did I know that the Body/Chassis has to be tighten-up after a certain service life because there are real timber hidden within the composite body, a Lotus expert once told me. A real throw back to ancient technology.........

But evolution render this ancient technology a mighty effective weapon. Who cares if the four anchors under my seat ties only to a 1/4" thick of fiberglass. (Actually I already did some good reinforcements there.) If you crash, you can't win the race anyway........Laugh! The Esprit is deceptively simple and quick. Once on boost, a 1st Gen Viper will find it hard to "walk" from the Esprit. "Creep" is more fitting. It is the combination of light weight and superior power that will easily take on my NSX in acceleration.

As an enthusiast, I truly love both cars. At times I also hate both but thankfully not at the same time. Up until recently, my heart still pounds faster for my Esprit, for both good and bad reasons......... Sorry I never owned but only respect the Viper. At my tunner's shop, there sit one with over 1.5k hp to the wheels.........Ouch.............

Best Regards
Paul
 
Esprit1 said:
There are soo much posted here by both parties that I can't agree more with. Unfortunately, I also see the guarded pride in both that is turning this into an unproductive thread. May I offer my humble opinion on a few points mentioned based on my personal experience with my 93' NSX and 98' Esprit, both of which I concurrently owned and actively driven for over 6yrs.

93' NSX
A work of art and an engineering marvel. In stock form, it is a very well balanced and civilized package that one can take to work or grocery shopping daily. On weekends, the same can be said on the track and still turn-in respectable numbers. What it sorely lack is power and character. In a QM, roll-on, or a fast track, my stock Esprit can easily "walk" my NSX. At my age and condition.......it is more like running........Laugh!

On the other hand, I'll gladly trade a bit of character for the bullet proof reliability that the NSX offers. Furthermore, in stock form, the suspension and chassis is spot on. It gives just the right amount of feedback and is very progressive at its limits. Esprit will have an extremely tough time trying to loose the NSX on a slow track. Finally, build quality of the NSX speaks for itself. I'll not attempt to repeat what soo many people had said before me.

98' Esprit
In Champman's philosophy, if it doesn't fall apart at the end of a race, it is over build. That kind of sums up the build quality of my Esprit. I have to plan my route carefully before taking her out and long distance trip is pretty much out of the question. And little did I know that the Body/Chassis has to be tighten-up after a certain service life because there are real timber hidden within the composite body, a Lotus expert once told me. A real throw back to ancient technology.........

But evolution render this ancient technology a mighty effective weapon. Who cares if the four anchors under my seat ties only to a 1/4" thick of fiberglass. (Actually I already did some good reinforcements there.) If you crash, you can't win the race anyway........Laugh! The Esprit is deceptively simple and quick. Once on boost, a 1st Gen Viper will find it hard to "walk" from the Esprit. "Creep" is more fitting. It is the combination of light weight and superior power that will easily take on my NSX in acceleration.

As an enthusiast, I truly love both cars. At times I also hate both but thankfully not at the same time. Up until recently, my heart still pounds faster for my Esprit, for both good and bad reasons......... Sorry I never owned but only respect the Viper. At my tunner's shop, there sit one with over 1.5k hp to the wheels.........Ouch.............

Best Regards
Paul

Paul,

Thanks for your input, this is pretty much exactly how I feel as well.. Though I feel a Gen 2 Viper would be the one that slowly crawls from the Stock Esprit, as the Gen 1 had 415hp and 3500 pounds..

The only other point is that as long as you keep the esprit well maintained you can drive her pretty far. I took her 1,000 miles in a sitting (st. louis to Philadelphia) with 0 problems whatsoever.. For the v8's you just need to get the late model engine with the new sealant to avoid those engine failures (have you had yours done Paul?) It seems it's only a matter of time before you need a rebuild with pre 2001 engine's.. ugh.. My rebuild is a 2003 so my car (engine wise) is dandy about now..

Again I just want to mention that the NSX is a fantastic car that I would love to own.. my ideal situation would be do have both of course..As a matter of fact, I would love to have a (marginally at best) less exotic car to get more reliability, I do stress my esprit, it has a lot of character, you always wonder when something will go wrong..

I probably drive my exotics more than you do.. I every one I have owned I put 3-4k on the first 2 months at least.. then I FORCE myself not to touch them usually, it's kind of frustrating..

I would love to have a car than I feel I could drive 200k miles like the NSX.. brilliant.. the only supercar and exotic I know of that you can own cheaply..
 
Thanks Esprit1 for the nice even tempered post.
I have driven dozens of NSX's. Of the stock ones there were some that were absolute monsters and some that were not.
This is not unusual within a line of similar cars.
I only drive cars when the repair demands that it be driven and tested.
When I do this and it is a performance car, I push the car as hard as you can on sparsely traveled public roads. I try to make it give and show me if it has a problem.
It's my job.:biggrin:
It is not casual ride and would probably scare the dickens out of most passengers.

I have had to drive only one Espirt, a 1998 and my impression is what it is of that particular car and how it compares to the many NSX’s and few Viper's I drove.
It was one, not yours or his, just this one.
Everyone thinks they are a great driver and own a great example of their vehicle of choice.
Me too.:biggrin: Except I would be right! :rolleyes:

I feel obligated to inform my customers and the folks here on Prime in regard to safety issues as I see them.
That is why I keep mentioning the seat attachment.
It is true you can't win the race if you crash but you can’t race if you are dead.
The whole point of the multi point harness is to hold you in place. The car on a track is going to have some real g’s and needs to be secure especially if you do, God forbid, crash.:eek:
If I owned a Esprit I would need to weld in some kind of support to the seat, maybe a triangle to the center chassis? Hmm.

In addition, this old type of fiberglass when it breaks can turns into spears, one big reason why so few modern cars use it. SMC for example has similar weight savings but does not do this when crashed.
No one can guarantee the occupant's safety but I feel manufacturers of such exotics can and should do a whole lot more. Dead or injured customers are of little use.Crush zones, perimeter protection and the lack of them are something a person should be aware of so they can be informed and assess the risk before they jump in, buy or compare cars.

BTW, the NSX is not cheap to own. Repairs can be very expensive but parts have been easier to get, in my experience than the Esprit.

SEXyNSX,I think it ill advised to go to a car site and make your first post(s) about a fictional(?) tryst with your girlfriend’s brother, burning your NSX and making a insurance claim or a poll about wiring your privates vs. driving the featured site vehicle.:rolleyes:
You also should respect that some people take it personal and are offended when you make irreverent use of the name of Jesus Christ.
You’re a better man than that I’m sure.:wink:
Just a heads up, we already have a funny guy and his name is Hugh. :cool:
Check him out.

You aren't that far away and I hope to meet you. I'd think you'd find I'm eager and easy to make new friends with.
 
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Well in this thread you did start the argument..

"It must be a big leap over a 1998 Esprit V8 turbo which I have driven. That was no Viper, which I also have also driven, and maybe in the league of a stock older NSX in terms of acceleration. NSX handling? Again, your car must of been some big improvement over this 1998." <--

Car people are passionate about their cars, again I think all 3 are awesome, I have only owned 2 of the 3, so I don't have sufficient experience in the NSX to feel comfortable with living with it or driving it at it's limits..

Actually, how far away are you from Philly? or Manhattan? If you would be interested I bet you Patricio and I would love to meet you because I might accompany him in looking at a used NSX in that region, you might offer some insight for him and you can test drive my Esprit in person! :smile:

"The weather on saturday was wet and we were accelerating along straight road to about 60 mph with a car in front and behind. Suddenly the back end stepped out, but the time I had corrected we had already hit the curb and the car was flung off the road into the trees at about 60 mph. The police informed me that the car hit 4 trees before coming to a standstill around 50yds from the road.

There was no bodywork aft of the b pillars except for the engine cover. The rear section and 1 rear alloy wheel was about 50 yds away. the other rear alloy was bent at 90 deg. Both cross struts between the a and b pillars were broken and all glass in the car was smashed. The drivers footwell had collapsed onto my right leg and the drivers door had been pushed in against my ribs. I was trapped for a few minutes until my fellow passenger managed to remove enough of the car for me to wiggly out.

As my self and a fellow list member walked away we looked back and both said "How the f**k did we survive that?"

We are both badly bruised and it will be a week before I get back to work. Any other car maybe we wouldn't have walked away but on the other hand any other car and it may have not happened.

Funny thing is I took my car keys out of the ignition before I walked away.
"
<-- dialogue to go with the pics..It doesn't look like the figberglass broke into shards to me, and this is pretty major accident which the occupants survived with no major damage!
 

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You sure there were no head injuries?:biggrin:

Why can't I stop? :tongue:
Sorry.:redface:
 
Jeez...I just read all this nonsense about NSX vs. Viper vs. Esprit.

I'll keep it really short:

SexyNSX: You're new here, a majority of your 38 posts as a nonsexy NSX owner, are entirely without taste or class, and your arguments are weak. Fine, a V8 Esprit is faster than an NA1 NSX straight line. Who's arguing? So are several AMG mercedes saloon cars. How many times have you been embarassed by riced Civics? Straight line acceleration is a fools metric by which to judge any car.

Pbasso: Thanks for your FACT filled posts, helping the rest of us understand exactly why Esprits are perhaps the worst commonly known "supercars" on the planet. I'd rather have a DeLorean, so at least I could go Back to the Future 25 years and see the "future" in 1980s automotive technology for my Lotus.

I guess, given SexyNSXs bizarre post history, it would make sense that he chooses to follow in the footsteps of Pretty Woman's Richard Gere. Gerbils...:eek: :eek:
 
that was just uncalled for!

but you true masters have convinced me, the Lotus Turbo Esprit is the WORST SUPERCAR EVER TO COME TO MARKET.

Thank god. I am now going to masterbate into a sock while pouring lemonjuice in my eyes and jump out my window while burning myself alive!

BTW - what is wrong with gerbils? cute little tikes..
 
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