Interesting comparo at the viper forum
- Thread starter louie
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Funny--they like the convertible but hate the c/f hood. :smile:
NSX definitely got a little respect. A few basically saying the S2000 was a much better value for performance.
Talk about contrasting cars, the Viper and NSX. Polar opposites in every possible way.
NSX definitely got a little respect. A few basically saying the S2000 was a much better value for performance.
Talk about contrasting cars, the Viper and NSX. Polar opposites in every possible way.
SexyNsx
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Having owned a Gen2 RT-10 and driven the NSX here is my opinion.
You want straightline speed and irrational amounts of torque? Viper
You want ANYTHING else.. NSX.
NSX feels like a scientifically designed race car, the Viper feels like a torque monster that is designed just to go fast in a straight line..
It's a bad ass car no doubt.. but the NSX is far more impressive from an engineering standpoint.
You want straightline speed and irrational amounts of torque? Viper
You want ANYTHING else.. NSX.
NSX feels like a scientifically designed race car, the Viper feels like a torque monster that is designed just to go fast in a straight line..
It's a bad ass car no doubt.. but the NSX is far more impressive from an engineering standpoint.
It's easy to make a car fast if you put a ginormous engine in it.
Psychobiology said:
anything is possible if u got the money..
SexyNsx said:
As the former owner of a 1998 RT/10, I couldn't agree more. By the way, I've always been intrested in the Esprit. Is it hard to find places to service it, or are there a lot of shops that will? How hs the reliability for you been so far?
To each his own regarding the convertible. At least it's better executed then a few others I've seen. What I want to know is when did the NSX have 50/50weight distribution (it's 42/58)? 
Seems like a few of those forum members were knowledgable enthusiasts which is pleasant surprise. I wonder if someone should interject that the suspension was finished by Aryton Senna and Bobby Rahal or that the NSX served as the template for the McLaren F1.
From the thread, anyone know which lip spoiler this is:
Seems like a few of those forum members were knowledgable enthusiasts which is pleasant surprise. I wonder if someone should interject that the suspension was finished by Aryton Senna and Bobby Rahal or that the NSX served as the template for the McLaren F1.
From the thread, anyone know which lip spoiler this is:
Time for Nsxtasy to whip out the old " red clown shoe" photo :biggrin:
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AndyNSX said:
Hey Andy
.Bat™
I have not driven a Viper but was a passenger in a Hennesy 603 (? something like that anyway) and was not impressed in the looks, the interior, and the racket loud sound they make. Reminded me of my old Camaro but with 3x the engine and much bigger tires. Loud and creaking the whole time. But some don't like the look of the NSX either. Of course I'd much rather buy the NSX and am working on that goal.
What I do know is that there was a Viper on the track with us in Gainesville back in June. Looked good I guess, had roll bars all in it, Nos, trailored it in, the whole 9 yards but we also had 6 S2000's out there most of which use their car as their daily driver. 5 of the 6 beat the stew out of the Vipers time (1 mile road course). I was the 6th one that didn't. Hey it was only my 2nd time on the track ever in any car. ALL of the S2000s were NA too. In fact 2 of our guys tied for 3rd overall between about 20-22 cars. 1st and 2nd were two major trackers with a FI 240 and an FI RX-7.
Just my 2 cents.
What I do know is that there was a Viper on the track with us in Gainesville back in June. Looked good I guess, had roll bars all in it, Nos, trailored it in, the whole 9 yards but we also had 6 S2000's out there most of which use their car as their daily driver. 5 of the 6 beat the stew out of the Vipers time (1 mile road course). I was the 6th one that didn't. Hey it was only my 2nd time on the track ever in any car. ALL of the S2000s were NA too. In fact 2 of our guys tied for 3rd overall between about 20-22 cars. 1st and 2nd were two major trackers with a FI 240 and an FI RX-7.
Just my 2 cents.
nvrquit4 said:
Wow, you rode in one. Don't speak unitl you've owned one. I've had/have both the Viper and NSX. I don't ever remember seeing an S2000 win the 24hrs of LeMans. Was it ladies day at the track? That must have been the reason for all of the S2000's.
"Ladies Day" Nice. :wink:
BTW, the only car to breakdown that day was the Viper. Good thing he had a trailer to get it back home.
BTW, the only car to breakdown that day was the Viper. Good thing he had a trailer to get it back home.
isellpower said:
Don't be a d!ck. He's stating his experience.
From my experience with the viper, which isn't too much. Last year at the Denver GP, every domestic was getting spanked by a Volvo. That included the Viper, GTO, CTS V, Vette, Mustang.
Re: Interesting compare at the viper forum
It must be a big leap over a 1998 Esprit V8 turbo which I have driven. That was no Viper, which I also have also driven, and maybe in the league of a stock older NSX in terms of acceleration. NSX handling? Again, your car must of been some big improvement over this 1998.
SexyNsx said:
It must be a big leap over a 1998 Esprit V8 turbo which I have driven. That was no Viper, which I also have also driven, and maybe in the league of a stock older NSX in terms of acceleration. NSX handling? Again, your car must of been some big improvement over this 1998.
Re: Interesting compare at the viper forum
Seeing as that is out in Vancouver, I bet that NSX came from that shop, which I think may be in Langley, that takes rolled NSXs and turns them into converts.
Seeing as that is out in Vancouver, I bet that NSX came from that shop, which I think may be in Langley, that takes rolled NSXs and turns them into converts.
SexyNsx
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Re: Interesting compare at the viper forum
Insulting my car do you?!?!
The stock V8 esprit is at 350 hp at the crank with 3,000 pounds pushing ..
a Gen 2 viper is at 450 at the crank with about 3,500 pounds to push.
a stock NSX (post 97) is at 290hp with about 3,000 pounds to push
Normally I would say the Viper woul pull away..
BUT------!
MY Esprit is a touch different.. not your ordinariuly run of the mill Esprit.. it has a new exhaust with muffler delete and high flow cats allowing for less backpressure and approximately over 100 pounds less weight.
It also has racing suspension, brembo carbon fiber racing brakes, and a racing clutch.
The big kicker here is that I have a Johan ECU upgrade.. yes that is right.. it's a mix of the "red race" ecu upgrade from lotus with some other frankenstien odds and ends.. my normally stock 350hp car now can do 440-450hp at the crank!
So now we have a car with similar HP at the crank..and my car, now weighing under 3,000 pounds, less than 500 pounds of that bloated viper.. What do you all think the outcome will be?
Ladies and Gentlemen of the JURY
ESPRIT IS THE CLEAR VICTOR!
-------------------------------
Now, regarding that pesky handling aspect, I dare any of you to get behind the seats of a Gen 2, Edprit V8, NSX and tell me what you will see.. its going to look something like this:
Gen 2 tried to turn and ends up in a ditch.passenger decapitated while chewing his big league plenty..
Nsx and Esprit holding neck and neck in the turns, but in the straights the esprit WILL pull away due to a larger engine able to produce more HP/LR...
WE are left with a drivers race here, but not a fair one.. thew only chance an nsx would have is that a brillian driver in the nsx and a average driver in the esprit.. if this was the case.. then the nsx could overcome in the turns and use the remainder of it's power in the straights to elude the esprit..
IN THEORY
pbassjo said:
Insulting my car do you?!?!
The stock V8 esprit is at 350 hp at the crank with 3,000 pounds pushing ..
a Gen 2 viper is at 450 at the crank with about 3,500 pounds to push.
a stock NSX (post 97) is at 290hp with about 3,000 pounds to push
Normally I would say the Viper woul pull away..
BUT------!
MY Esprit is a touch different.. not your ordinariuly run of the mill Esprit.. it has a new exhaust with muffler delete and high flow cats allowing for less backpressure and approximately over 100 pounds less weight.
It also has racing suspension, brembo carbon fiber racing brakes, and a racing clutch.
The big kicker here is that I have a Johan ECU upgrade.. yes that is right.. it's a mix of the "red race" ecu upgrade from lotus with some other frankenstien odds and ends.. my normally stock 350hp car now can do 440-450hp at the crank!
So now we have a car with similar HP at the crank..and my car, now weighing under 3,000 pounds, less than 500 pounds of that bloated viper.. What do you all think the outcome will be?
Ladies and Gentlemen of the JURY
ESPRIT IS THE CLEAR VICTOR!
-------------------------------
Now, regarding that pesky handling aspect, I dare any of you to get behind the seats of a Gen 2, Edprit V8, NSX and tell me what you will see.. its going to look something like this:
Gen 2 tried to turn and ends up in a ditch.passenger decapitated while chewing his big league plenty..
Nsx and Esprit holding neck and neck in the turns, but in the straights the esprit WILL pull away due to a larger engine able to produce more HP/LR...
WE are left with a drivers race here, but not a fair one.. thew only chance an nsx would have is that a brillian driver in the nsx and a average driver in the esprit.. if this was the case.. then the nsx could overcome in the turns and use the remainder of it's power in the straights to elude the esprit..
IN THEORY
SexyNsx,
Where are you located? If in Vegas.......Care to join our group? Visit us at WWW.snlcc.com if you have a chance.
Stock NSX can't touch stock Esprit V8TT on a fast track. On a slow track, Esprit will have a tough time. Esprit can carve a turn with the best of them but a bit more tricky at the limit. NSX is a bit more forgiving and breaks away more progressively. Overall, I would rate them almost equal on handling. 440-450hp crank is a bit optimistic, but on an open road the Esprit easily walks away.
Johan did a wonderful job on the ECU. If anyone can't crack the code, he can......... Ask me how I know. Next mod you'll need is the K&N filters, BOV, and a tuned waste-gate........
Best Regards
Paul
Where are you located? If in Vegas.......Care to join our group? Visit us at WWW.snlcc.com if you have a chance.
Stock NSX can't touch stock Esprit V8TT on a fast track. On a slow track, Esprit will have a tough time. Esprit can carve a turn with the best of them but a bit more tricky at the limit. NSX is a bit more forgiving and breaks away more progressively. Overall, I would rate them almost equal on handling. 440-450hp crank is a bit optimistic, but on an open road the Esprit easily walks away.
Johan did a wonderful job on the ECU. If anyone can't crack the code, he can......... Ask me how I know. Next mod you'll need is the K&N filters, BOV, and a tuned waste-gate........
Best Regards
Paul
SexyNsx
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440-450 is at peak HP in the RPM range, accoring to Johan(which means perhaps only at 6-7400rpm range or less that is over 400hp), the previous owner of my esprit Dynoed it and achieved over 400 hp at the crank..
I have the wastgate and airfilter upgrades you are talking about I am way ahead of you, I also have 4 chamber radiator as opposed to 2 chamber (better cooling) as well as some other mods like a quaiffe LSD(limited slip diff) and 5 point seat harneses..
I live in philly, however I probably know some of the esprit guys you know...
Stuff like the LSD in a modified esprit v8TT makes it tough to beat at the track.. Esprit1 have you installed a LSD in your esprit? the cost is 4-5k and well worth it IMO
What is a BOV?
Also in regards to Johan, he is awesome, what he does is take the entire ECU system and create a bolt on chip system (so instead of lotus charging you thousands to simply change the ecu set up (like they do with the high torque or red race ecu) You are able to mix and match by simply taking out a chip and entering a new one! I personally love this! So I have the High Torque ECU if I want it (sport 350 version) and I currently have Johan's chip in there.. He's awesome
I have the wastgate and airfilter upgrades you are talking about
I am way ahead of you, I also have 4 chamber radiator as opposed to 2 chamber (better cooling) as well as some other mods like a quaiffe LSD(limited slip diff) and 5 point seat harneses..I live in philly, however I probably know some of the esprit guys you know...
Stuff like the LSD in a modified esprit v8TT makes it tough to beat at the track..
Esprit1 have you installed a LSD in your esprit? the cost is 4-5k and well worth it IMOWhat is a BOV?
Also in regards to Johan, he is awesome, what he does is take the entire ECU system and create a bolt on chip system (so instead of lotus charging you thousands to simply change the ecu set up (like they do with the high torque or red race ecu) You are able to mix and match by simply taking out a chip and entering a new one! I personally love this! So I have the High Torque ECU if I want it (sport 350 version) and I currently have Johan's chip in there.. He's awesome
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Re: Interesting compare at the viper forum
The 1998 I drove had a upgraded exhaust,suspension (shocks, sway bar bushings etc.), brakes and more.
It had low mileage and was well maintained and when it started up had a great bark to it.
The owner felt the same about his car as you do about yours.
Call it as many RWHP as you like.
Acceleration was not in the Viper league, not even close.
Walking a NSX is just smack talk.
When I looked under the car and started to explore, the more I saw the more I cringed.
It's like a kit car from the 70-80's.
For example the seats are bolted to a thin 1/4- 3/8" fiberglass floor? Not to a steel structural member but to a sheet of fiberglass?
Old style fiberglass mind you too, the kind GM stopped using in Vettes in the early seventies.
Nice.
Great looking car. Gorgeous. I love how they look.
The 1998 I drove had a upgraded exhaust,suspension (shocks, sway bar bushings etc.), brakes and more.
It had low mileage and was well maintained and when it started up had a great bark to it.
The owner felt the same about his car as you do about yours.
Call it as many RWHP as you like.
Acceleration was not in the Viper league, not even close.
Walking a NSX is just smack talk.
When I looked under the car and started to explore, the more I saw the more I cringed.
It's like a kit car from the 70-80's.
For example the seats are bolted to a thin 1/4- 3/8" fiberglass floor? Not to a steel structural member but to a sheet of fiberglass?
Old style fiberglass mind you too, the kind GM stopped using in Vettes in the early seventies.
Nice.
Great looking car. Gorgeous. I love how they look.
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SexyNsx
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don't mean to sound like a prick..
but you don't have anywhere near the experience to make that statement..
I owned a gen 2 viper, drove it thousands of miles, took it to the QM track..
I also own an esprit, drove that thousands of miles..
I have never owned just driven NSX's so I am not going to make any conclusive statements.
I know you have "driven" an esprit, but honestly man.. if you haven't owned or spent considerable amounts of time in a car.. how can you make such factual sounding statements?
I have no reason to bash the viper, I bought it and enjoyed it.. Hot car no question.
Lets look at magazine times if that will help:
- 1998 Dodge Viper RT/10 4.1 12.3
- 1998 Lotus Esprit V8 Turbo 4.4 12.8
- 1997 Acura NSX-T 4.8 13.3
you consider these numbers "not even close" to one another? Give me a break..
and yes a stock esprit will walk a stock nsx.. look at the numbers.. they don't lie.. Just like a stock viper will walk a stock esprit.. makes sense.. but trust me it's just going to be a slow pull not exactly blowing it out of the water.
If you can explain to me how a 290hp car weighting 3000 pounds can outaccelerate a 350hp car weighting 3000 pounds then fine.. mind you we have to be existing in the same laws of physics here..
So lets use this:
http://www.evotuners.com/quarter.htm
to calculate
Here is the number based on weight/hp
Stock Viper 1998- 12.2 (I got this at ATCO, though I know with a good driver you can get 11.7's stock on a viper)
Stock Esprit 1998 - 12.6 (again in line with many magazine times)
Stock NSX 1998 - 13.4 (again very close to the times posted above with the magazines)
It's simple physics man.. weight and HP will accomplish the numbers you see.. Now lets look at my Esprit, I'll do 400hp to be conservative.
400HP Esprit v8 - 12.1
Ok now with all this data.. explain to me how a Viper that does 12.2 is faster than an Esprit that can do 12.1? I mean if all you have is your test drive based on seat of your pans BS evaluation then don't even post.. Besides the Viper Gen 2 has 490 LB/Torque.. which means it kicks your ass from 1k rpm and up consistently.. makes it FEEL faster.. the Esprit has a turbo that kicks in at 4k rpm (2,800 with my chip) and the max hp/tq is at 7k rpm as opposed to a vipers 4k rpm.. it FEELS different when it accelerates..
So unless you have toss me some more substiantial proof.. don't post.
For what it's worth designwise I think the NSX is the superior automobile across the board.. any idiot can go fast in a straight line.. and this should not be the basis to judge a car.
but you don't have anywhere near the experience to make that statement..
I owned a gen 2 viper, drove it thousands of miles, took it to the QM track..
I also own an esprit, drove that thousands of miles..
I have never owned just driven NSX's so I am not going to make any conclusive statements.
I know you have "driven" an esprit, but honestly man.. if you haven't owned or spent considerable amounts of time in a car.. how can you make such factual sounding statements?
I have no reason to bash the viper, I bought it and enjoyed it.. Hot car no question.
Lets look at magazine times if that will help:
- 1998 Dodge Viper RT/10 4.1 12.3
- 1998 Lotus Esprit V8 Turbo 4.4 12.8
- 1997 Acura NSX-T 4.8 13.3
you consider these numbers "not even close" to one another? Give me a break..
and yes a stock esprit will walk a stock nsx.. look at the numbers.. they don't lie.. Just like a stock viper will walk a stock esprit.. makes sense.. but trust me it's just going to be a slow pull not exactly blowing it out of the water.
If you can explain to me how a 290hp car weighting 3000 pounds can outaccelerate a 350hp car weighting 3000 pounds then fine.. mind you we have to be existing in the same laws of physics here..
So lets use this:
http://www.evotuners.com/quarter.htm
to calculate
Here is the number based on weight/hp
Stock Viper 1998- 12.2 (I got this at ATCO, though I know with a good driver you can get 11.7's stock on a viper)
Stock Esprit 1998 - 12.6 (again in line with many magazine times)
Stock NSX 1998 - 13.4 (again very close to the times posted above with the magazines)
It's simple physics man.. weight and HP will accomplish the numbers you see.. Now lets look at my Esprit, I'll do 400hp to be conservative.
400HP Esprit v8 - 12.1
Ok now with all this data.. explain to me how a Viper that does 12.2 is faster than an Esprit that can do 12.1? I mean if all you have is your test drive based on seat of your pans BS evaluation then don't even post.. Besides the Viper Gen 2 has 490 LB/Torque.. which means it kicks your ass from 1k rpm and up consistently.. makes it FEEL faster.. the Esprit has a turbo that kicks in at 4k rpm (2,800 with my chip) and the max hp/tq is at 7k rpm as opposed to a vipers 4k rpm.. it FEELS different when it accelerates..
So unless you have toss me some more substiantial proof.. don't post.
For what it's worth designwise I think the NSX is the superior automobile across the board.. any idiot can go fast in a straight line.. and this should not be the basis to judge a car.
