Image of NSX or Japan car

[NetViper]

Yeah, I agree. Instead of giving the dealer $10K rebate, Honda should just slap on the CTSC for all new nsx then they won't have problem competing with high end sport car like 911 Turbo, 360 Modena and such...

I agree with that also. I find it hard to imagine anyone shopping for an exotic car would walk away from a 2005 CTSC NSX and feel it is underpowered.

 

[Osiris_x11]

In regards to Lexus...

I read something very interesting in Motorcyclist magazine (7/2004)

Second best example, LEXUS is the only Japan brand that is successfully to be equal social status of BMW, BENZ


**from the article, it tells the reason......
the reason of LEXUS to be successful is because since day one, the staff and managment of the LEXUS team never thinks of themselve as TOYOTA or Japanese. They only think of themselves as LEXUS, and they mean to make high quality sedans.

...but other Japanese brands, the management failed to do this, because they keep comparing among themselves....

and then when they have a Lexus, they always compare with Benz and BMWs.... and when they compare with other Japan cars, like Nissan, the Lexus always stand out of the crown and it is so obviously, that Lexus is no longer about Japan, in technology and in craftmanship.
_________________________________________________________________

LEXUS is an independent develop team from Toyota (althought owned by Toyota) the staff in LEUXS actually can be tracked back to right after WWII
the Japanese have alot of immigrant living in Europe. it took them alot of time, and finally by the 3generations, the Euro-japanese finally have engineers who work in major Euro cooperation. one of them is Mercede Benz.
and they study alot about the Mercede Benz cars, because that's very high standard in body structure. in other words, it takes Toyota 50years to learn those car body technology. (not even Honda or Nissan can be as quiet as Lexus cars)

***and yes, the LEXUS is sold under Toyota brand in Japan, but Toyota will change this in 2005, LEXUS will be LEXUS only in 2005. and there will not be an equal model under Toyota brand.

it takes Toyota so many years to make this decision because of the different culture in Japan. and Toyota does not want Lexus to end up like Acura and Eunos and Inifiniti.....so it wants the brand to be really strong in oversea before moving it back to Japan.

hmmm... interesting, but mostly garbage. Toyota has been making Lexus-quality vehicles in other markets around the world prior to their debut in North America. Toyota Crown was an uber luxury car in the MidEast & SouthAsia; it seems to be a basis of a clone for the LS. Toyota Corona was availabe in the 90's & was a basis for a GS clone. I can go on and on... I just wanted reiterated that often it's marketing and 'spin' that gets into our psyche`. Indeed the Lexus offerings are a cut above their Japanese counterparts.

(*cough* IS300 (Carolla)... ES330 (Camry)... LS400 (Avalon)... SC430 (Solara)... GX470 (4Runner)... LX470 (LandCruiser), blah blah blah!) Shared platforms are a reality- it's dollars & sense, my friends. [Cayenne/Touraeg, DB7/XK8, X-Type/Mondeo, Beetle/TT, H2/Yukon, etc] :biggrin:

Now Lexus being independant in 2005 from Toyota? Perhaps in executive or marketing aspects... if that at all. :redface:

The reference to the LS being quieter than any Acura... the last gen' RL when introduced was regarded as being quieter than the LS (not my observation, but Car & Driver and other publications).

Just keep it real and go for something that you want- bein' brand specific is pathetic, lol. :tongue:

{btw, there are 11-12 current Lexus owners in my family in the US... make that 13 if you want to include me. }

 

[awsomr1]

Re: In regards to Lexus...

Not to flame anyone, but I had been a BMW/MB owner for over 12 years, I went thru 9 different BMWs and 2 MB in that time. During that time I had a LS430 and now have a G35.

When you first drive them, they seem like they are comparable with the BMW and the MB, but after a month, you realize, it could never be the same. Till today, I still strongly believe, BMW and MB are still a class above the other brand.

If they build a Mid-Engine sports exotic that is under 100k and looks as good as NSX, I would buy it in a heart beat.

With that said, someone at Honda, please take one of your JGTC 500 car and detune it to 450 for reliability and sell the upgraded engine to US, and I'm happy. :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

PS. I would not mind the optional factory wide-body either

 

[EIFFEL]

NSX is the benchmark for all the other japanese sports cars. where as LEXUS is using M-B and BMW as benchmark for luxury sedens. As far as M-B and BMW being a different class of car from LEXUS, I would have to agree, it is for rich folks who wants a status symbol. the quality of German just don't compare to LEXUS. I currently have 02 C240 and 95 S600. previously had 94 318i seden and 95 M3 coupe. The 93 LS400 that I use as a shop shuttle is more reliable to all of them. My shop works on plenty of late model LEXUS and ACURA, IMO, LEXUS just builds the best car in the world. German cars are much better designed in apperance and "feel", something I can't explain, that's why I love them. But reliability is earned by LEXUS through long term cust. satisfaction. All my cust. are LEXUS cust. for life.

 

[jaytip nsx]

NSX is the benchmark for all the other japanese sports cars. where as LEXUS is using M-B and BMW as benchmark for luxury sedens. As far as M-B and BMW being a different class of car from LEXUS, I would have to agree, it is for rich folks who wants a status symbol. the quality of German just don't compare to LEXUS. I currently have 02 C240 and 95 S600. previously had 94 318i seden and 95 M3 coupe. The 93 LS400 that I use as a shop shuttle is more reliable to all of them. My shop works on plenty of late model LEXUS and ACURA, IMO, LEXUS just builds the best car in the world. German cars are much better designed in apperance and "feel", something I can't explain, that's why I love them. But reliability is earned by LEXUS through long term cust. satisfaction. All my cust. are LEXUS cust. for life.

i agree with you on this.when people tell me they are getting a new(not brand new) car and ask my opinion on what to get,i tell them,go for German if you want solidity,go for Japanese if you want reliability.

 

[Bart Geerts]

HONDA's ACURA still have people think of HONDA


Off course it does !! It is the same.

For example your 2005 ACURA TSX is our
2005 HONDA ACCORD.

If you want to compare pics to see I'm right, check them out at www.acura.com and www.honda.be

 

[NeoNSX]

good post. interesting debate


<B>| the Japanese always comparing the NSX with cheaper car like RX7, Evo, WRX, Supra, 3000GT, Skyline GTR..

| I think they should stop this treatment to NSX
| they should comparing NSX with Porsche or Lotus.
| and bring up the social status of NSX.</B>

Interesting theory, but that's not the problem here. There will always be comparisions with so called "weaker" cars. There's a TopGear comparison of the EVO vs. the Murcielago and that hasn't effected the supercar status of Lambo.
BestMotoring has compared the NSX to so many different cars - including the McLaren F1, Ferrari 360, 911 GT3, Lambo's, etc.. So it's a little unfair to say they only race "cheaper" cars. Although more people own these cheaper cars and they are more likely to buy the DVD's if they see their car being roadtested.

The real problem with the reputation of Acura IMHO is they haven't been in the market long enough or released enough "killer cars" that everybody identifies. Acura has tended to copy Lexus in everything down to cryptic naming scheme's of it's cars.

As for the NSX... I'd have to agree with some of the above comments; it's supercar status has slipped only because Honda hasn't kept it evolving performance-wise to compete against Porsche (primarily) & other high-end cars. Honda let the NSX go stagnant. That's not how you treat your "image" car. Bad move Honda.

 

[nsxtasy]

your 2005 ACURA TSX is our 2005 HONDA ACCORD.

They're not exactly the same. For example, the suspension on the TSX is calibrated to be firmer than the European Accord (which is the reverse of most other cars).

 

[44Runner]

.

What Acura needs to do to obtain social status is...

1. Get rid of 1.7EL and RSX!!! possibly TSX or CL as well.
2. Get S2000 into Acura brand.
3. Build V8 luxuary Sedans
4. Build V8 luxuary SUVs
5. Build a new flagship sportscar (next gen NSX), current NSX is getting too old to compete with new Porsche 911 or Ferrari F430.

This thread is dumb.

Why do some people care so much about social status. I personally don't give a crap about impressing someone with what I drive. For me it is all about impressing myself. As an S2000 owner I hear people moan all the time about it not being an Acura and some people buying BMW roadsters because of the name brand. That is fine with me. It just means they're stupid and are willing to pay more for a second rate roadster just to impress their friends who don't know jack about cars other than BMW's are pricey.

I am disappointed in this thread because I figured most prime posters did not think like this. You sound like the typical american trying to flex his muscles by saying "well my car has a V8" while still probably not able to tell you how many cylinders it has. I for one commend Honda/Acura. Go ahead and compare them to Toyota/Lexus if you want but I think it is unfair...to Toyota. I love Toyotas, own one myself, but other than the IS300 every single car in their current lineup is outrageously ugly. Kudos to them for figuring out a way to make people shell out big money for such ugly vehicles but I know I wouldn't. IMHO the TL is the best looking car in its class and by far the best value. I think Acura is doing just fine without making their luxury car V8 gas hogs. If you don't think your NSX impresses enough people at the country club, sell it to someone like me who doesn't give a rats ass...

 

[EIFFEL]

This thread is dumb.

I think Acura is doing just fine without making their luxury car V8 gas hogs.

FYI EPA Estimate fuel consumption for 05 RL 18/26, 05 LS430 18/25, 05 MB S500 16/24. They are all about the same.

 

[44Runner]

FYI EPA Estimate fuel consumption for 05 RL 18/26, 05 LS430 18/25, 05 MB S500 16/24. They are all about the same.

While true, I would bet the poor fuel consumption for the RL has more to do with the all wheel drive system than the engine...

 

[nsxtasy]

While true, I would bet the poor fuel consumption for the RL has more to do with the all wheel drive system than the engine...

True - not only AWD itself, but the weight it adds, typically 300+ pounds. I would bet that the new RL is the first car offered by Honda that exceeds 4000 pounds curb weight (where the term "car" excludes trucks such as the Odyssey, MD-X, etc.).