I'm sold...

[iconoblast]

Beware low McLaren quality in every single aspect. Was quirky, almost funny until the depreciation hit. 12C has no bad angles and sounds nearly as good as the 458. Much faster and more comfortable. All McLaren had to do was equal Ferrari in build quality, hardly a moon shot. Total fail. And the new P14 will have....wait for it...a 3.8 L TT V8 like all the others. Zzzzzzz.

 

[chrisn]

Can't go wrong with a 458. When I considered it versus the NSX, I worried about depreciation on the 458 if I put a lot of miles on it and tracked it a bunch (as I plan to do on the NSX). If total cost of ownership isn't a concern, I think getting a nice 458 over an NSX would be a reasonable choice.

The other factor that I like about the NSX versus the 458, is absence of the "LOOK AT ME!" factor of the Ferrari. THE NSX isn't exactly stealth, but it gets mostly "what is that?" looks and not "OMG, it's a Ferrari--- let's race him."

In any case, please keep us posted on your shopping experience. Any of the cars you are considering would provide many years of enjoyment.

 

[iconoblast]

"its the everyday supercar that you can enjoy on the streets and take it to the track when you feel like it."

There are lots of those. Porsche has dominated that niche for years, undeservedly so IMO. What is most special about this one?

 

[fastaussie]

Would you seriously consider a 458 when the 488 is now available.

That's seems to be the dilemma now, isn't it? The 488 is so good that it makes the 458 (which is also sooooo good) seem subpar. What a crazy world...

read below...

458.. WOW! is all i can say. From the moment i sat in the car and adjusted the drivers seat, i already knew i was going to like this car. Start up the car and now I'm in love, the sound is so intoxicating and pure that its really like no other car out there. I love my NSX so much i that pinpoint things it to be in the next sports car i want. Visibility and driving position, the 458 nails it and made me feel amazingly comfortable driving this car at its limit. Did I say the sound of this car was intoxicating already? right... the redline at 9k redline and the blips of throttle with that famous hum of a ferrari, I think i fell in love guys. It really felt like an Italian beefy brother to the NSX and i know how we all go after that "f1" sounding exhaust.. with this you can have that with the power to back it up. The seats were amazingly comfortable and the car actually felt less gizmos/gadgets and more driver focused, i truly enjoyed it as you can tell from my small review. It's funny how your mind immediately will cross this car off because the "better" 488 came out with turbos until you actually drive one. I did more research and videos on the 488 after my drives and i'm not sure if I want turbos for my exotic. After the day full of V10/V8 NA with a blipping & crackling exhaust, id much rather have that sound and feeling then the sensational pull back of a turbo. ALSO! I didn't know but another huge selling point for me on this 458 was that any ferrari 2012+ gets free maintenance for 7 years.

yep, that about sums up a first drive in a 458... :biggrin:

 

[chrisn]

For me, what made the NSX so special is that it is a unique combination of attributes, rather than being "the best" in any single dimension. It is a Honda (conservative engineering / reliability), Sport Hybrid (glimpse of the future), is a newcomer and is all-new (I give points for being the new-new thing), extensive dealer/service network and it looks great (subjective).

"its the everyday supercar that you can enjoy on the streets and take it to the track when you feel like it."

There are lots of those. Porsche has dominated that niche for years, undeservedly so IMO. What is most special about this one?

 

[latzke]

Dan. Looking forward to your thoughts on the 12C and 570s. If you can back-to-back the 12c and 650s...that would be interesting too. The 650s/570s back to back I did was unkind to the 570s with respect to ride quality and throttle response. The 570s interior is very cool and it's doors open farther, so it's got those (and price) going for it.

 

[fastaussie]

i've driven the 12C and the 570S. i prefer the 570S...

 

[RYU]

Dan. Looking forward to your thoughts on the 12C and 570s. If you can back-to-back the 12c and 650s...that would be interesting too. The 650s/570s back to back I did was unkind to the 570s with respect to ride quality and throttle response. The 570s interior is very cool and it's doors open farther, so it's got those (and price) going for it.

I have backed to backed the 12C and 650S. How can I help you?

 

[latzke]

I have backed to backed the 12C and 650S. How can I help you?

How much difference did you notice?

 

[fastaussie]

the 650 is quicker, and more polished...

 

[RYU]

I have backed to backed the 12C and 650S. How can I help you?

Hi Craig,

In my opinion it's a little more dramatic as the update between a NA1 vs an 02+ but not incorrect to think of it this way. Obviously aesthetical changes are obvious and some increase in power but the 12C is fast enough that when comparing true streetable power output it's not too dramatic. They worked out the bugs from the 12C like the IRIS software, they added buttons to open the door instead of the temperature slide touch sensor which had some charm but was impossible to use in the rain. They added soft touch closing doors because the early 12c had issues where even when slamming the doors it would still read as open. They softened the suspension bushings for when going over ruts in a 12C the entire car would ping and resonate as if it was on titanium hard bushings - it's quiet like a normal car in the 650S. Transmission is stout in the 650S. Stuff like that...

You can read about the other changes that their marketing Dept publishes. For roughly even money, I'd rather buy a used 650 over a new 570 any day.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh... The twin AC center vents on a 570s is nice... I'll give you that . You only get one in the 12C

 

[Jinks]

So your not sold on the NSX???
I must say Ferrari gets it.... They have passion for motorsport. It shows in the cars. Mclaren is more numbers and tech while Ferrari's seem as though they are built with love for driving. See video below. But my 1 gripe, the 458 is like my least favorite Ferrari. I am much more of a 599 gto kind of guy after sending it to novitec Rosso. Either way, who wouldn't want a car built in a place such as this!
https://youtu.be/oy_3hLQ7jI0

 

[fastaussie]

there are certain things the Italians will never be topped for. building cars and motorcycles are two of these things. they have a passion for motor racing and motor vehicles unmatched by any other country or culture. it is simply not in the nature of the Japanese or the Germans in the same vein as it is the Italians...

 

[docjohn]

I wonder what goes through older Japanese minds when they see the new nsx in showrooms constructed in America...anyone who went to fiesta have any feedback on that?

 

[fastaussie]

i find that to be so peculiar, that the Japanese allowed their flagship to be built in America...

 

[G.Irish]

i find that to be so peculiar, that the Japanese allowed their flagship to be built in America...

Certainly a departure for them, but a good sign that they are thinking outside of their usual box about the NSX. If the car is made in Japan even a modest increase in strength of the yen could make the price of the NSX quite unpalatable so they made it in the car's biggest market. Makes one wonder if there may be another sports car in the wings that they're going to make in Tochigi in order to keep the Japanese engineers happy though.

 

[fastaussie]

And the new P14 will have....wait for it...a 3.8 L TT V8 like all the others. Zzzzzzz.

that isn't any kind of a snooze motor mate. that little engine is psycho...

- - - Updated - - -

Makes one wonder if there may be another sports car in the wings that they're going to make in Tochigi in order to keep the Japanese engineers happy though.

time shall tell...

 

[Bricks and Bio]

The program was not supported to move forward by Honda Japan

Basically the US folks found some way to force it to get an ok, with them doing a lot of the work

My understanding is Honda Japan developed the drivetrain

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I was first on the NSX list with my dealer and got tired of waiting, so when the opportunity finally came, I decided to pass. However, that doesn't mean I won't buy one after the first year teething problems are worked out. As an owner of a '14 12C, I can tell you that they are absolutely fantastic cars. The driving position, view, active aero, chassis and comfort are unlike any other supercar I've driven. While some early adopters had issues (as is so often the case), I've put nearly 6,000 miles on mine and aside from regularly scheduled maintenance, haven't had a single problem. In contrast with 23 miles on my C7 Z06, the car had to be towed as a result of a sensor failure. But, things happen...and you have to expect it from time to time with any brand. I have deposits down on both the mid-engine vette (if it's ever built) and the Mac P14. But, I might be tempted to make a play for an NSX...especially if they make an R sometime soon. PS - I have noticed quite a few '17 NSX's for sale and have received calls from several dealers inquiring about cars they have on the ground and whether I may have an interest. This is both a little surprising and concerning for a very low volume car that had plenty of pre-launch PR. It makes me wonder what that means for values. I guess it's great for downstream buyers, but potentially painful (like the Mac's) for the original owners.

 

[Bricks and Bio]

The dealers created the current inventory glut themselves by ordering cars with the hope of selling cars goosed up with every option to pad profit and to hit the early adopters with market adjustments

 

[9spd]

The dealers created the current inventory glut themselves by ordering cars with the hope of selling cars goosed up with every option to pad profit and to hit the early adopters with market adjustments

Absolutely nailed it with that comment. It should be noted that Acura has to take partial blame for mispricing the car in the first place. Just like what they are doing with the RLX.

The dealers can only blame themselves for order a car with every CF options and $9000 wheels that frankly don't look nearly as good as the standard ones.

My personal spec would be 130R White, Full Black Leather, ELS Studio Audio, and that's it. No Carbon-Ceramic Brakes, no CF fluff, and maybe neutral on the Alcantara headliner. A more basic car like this even with forced CCB will be much easier to move.

But even a basic car like that is in 911 Turbo, Audi R8 V10 and AMG GT S territory. The NSX lacks the performance, intoxicating sound, or aggressive pricing to really stand out among the competition.

 

[JD Cross]

The dealers created the current inventory glut themselves by ordering cars with the hope of selling cars goosed up with every option to pad profit and to hit the early adopters with market adjustments

Using sales for Sept/Oct of 105 units let's say the average is about 50 real sales per month.
Included in the sales figures are 14 that are back in the market as used on Cars.com so let's say the real sales pace is about 45 cars per month
With 82 new and used on Cars.com that's almost two months of unsold inventory.

If production is now up to 6 a day with 50 % going to the US that's an additional 63 cars a month going into the market.
If the sales pace in Nov stays at Oct levels of 67 cars then new production is about equal to sales.

However this doesn't account for the 82 currently unsold so there's a clear shortfall of orders.

If the Nov/Dec sales pace ends up higher than Oct or Honda diverts significant volume off shore then unsold inventory may have peaked and will start coming down.
If not and dealers continue to place orders and Honda keeps shipping them, I'd suggest there will be carnage in the marketplace in the New Year or the plant will have to curtail.

If overstocked dealers end up discounting below MSRP by Christmas then Honda might well face a class action suit by owners who bought in good faith then had their purchase discounted by poor marketing.
Honda did go on record prior to the launch of stating there would be no unsold NSX inventory at dealerships

 

[Olyar15]

If dealers are so overstocked and there is a shortfall of orders, then why am I still waiting to place an order?

YTD: US sales 150, Canadian sales 27.

 

[JD Cross]

If dealers are so overstocked and there is a shortfall of orders, then why am I still waiting to place an order?

YTD: US sales 150, Canadian sales 27.

An excellent question that many are asking.
I believe there are only two 2017 on AutoTrader in Canada with an additional number unsold at dealerships but not being advertised on a national website like Cars.com.
As far as I know Canada will get 78 NSX's for 2017, about 10 % of the US total, and I hear there are still Canadian dealerships waiting for a "coverage" car.
No idea why Honda Canada or US is not shipping cars that are pre-sold to individuals rather than unsold cars to dealerships.

 

[N Spec]

Because the dealers have paid for the coverage cars and they are most likely high volume dealers that have priority.