If Chrysler can build this, why can't Honda?

i dont think honda would even want to build something like that. Honda is better of working on the next gen nsx instead of a super car to compete against the enzo, F1, etc..
 
I tend to agree with you <B>NUK3M</B>... it follows the supercar formula and goes through all the supercar motions, but lacks soul.


The rear is a little chaotic, but the mini-integrated spoiler is what the HSC should have had.
 
One main thing to remember with the ME412 - 4 turbochargers.

4 TURBOCHARGERS, not superchargers... TURBOCHARGERS

Can you say"Impossible to keep Balanced?" In order to keep that 12 cylinder engine running properly, your going to have to have all 4 of those turbochagers serviced every couple thousand miles.

That engine will be a maintainence nightmare. Yah it will give Ferrari a run for the money all right. It will be the new world's leader in most expensive car to keep on the road.
 
I didn't mean exactly like that monster, but something needs to be done to compete will all the other supercars in production and the ones coming down the pipe. The HSC appears to be a step backwards in time if a V6 with 300hp ish range being the plan. Certainly Honda is capable of building a supercar contender, but not with the same thinking that went into the NSX, as that was different times back then. Now, you have to look at 0-60 times and HP. If not, the car won't sell, period. Not many want to say that. The new Viper, GT40, Enzo, Lambo, Carrera etc all are judged by the HP and 0-60 times. Gone are the days of "the NSX does well at the track" excuses. Yes, it does well at tracks with professional drivers (as seen in the BM vids), but only the lightened NSX-R competes and seems to be starting to trail now. Even Toyotas prototype looks appealing and competetive on paper. To compete today in the supercar world and be able to sell decent amounts, the HSC needs to be in the 450-500 HP range and 0-60 times around the 3-4 second time, period. Otherwise, why try? Let the flames begin.............
 
I think anyone who reads this particular board agrees :D

Of course, to play devils advocate, I get a kick out of all of the "real sports cars only have manual transmission" zealots who demand 5 and 600hp, 3.2 second 0-60 times and 11 second quarter miles as if they have a snowballs chance in hell of EVER managing to shift well enough to accomplish that.

Maybe the manufacturers should force you to qualify and PROVE you even have remotely near the skill to do anything with these cars before selling you one so you dont give the car a bad name when your lousy shifting lets you get beaten by an AMG Benz with an auto :D

Its a reality that it takes HUGE numbers to compete today, but its also a reality that, at this point, 99.99% of the people driving these cars are pure posers who would crash and burn if they even attempted to push the car beyond like 6/10ths.

I want to see Honda competitive, but personally, I think the greatest generation of realistic performance is already behind us with the F360, 02 Z06, the 996TT and the Gen II Viper. I would have loved to have seen a next gen NSX have been released in time to compete with those legendary cars.

The next gen of ridiculous 500+ hp cars just seem like death traps to me.
 
At the USGP in Indy I had the chance to check out the ME 412 in person and sit in it. It is nothing shy of amazing (and I dislike about 200% of all American cars). The motor sound was awesome too, what a monster!
 
Honda could have produced a high HP engine for the NSX derived from either F1 or CART years ago. With the engineeering and technilogical capabilities that Honda has they could build any "Super Car" that is equal to or beyond the likes of an Enzo , Saleen S7, or anything else for that matter. IMO - it's Honda's philosophy of producing cars that are reliable, safe, and fuel/emmissions efficient that limits what they will produce. Hence, no super fast high HP gas guzzler. Honda has nothing to prove. They've acheived quite a lot in their relatively short history. Look at the introduction of the NSX, a competitor in the Sports Car world for under $80K. Which was and still is more reliable and mechanically stable than everything else on the market. Looking for super high HP probably isn't going to happen, Small incremental increases maybe, but radical jumps - not likely.
 
Yes, "450-500 HP range and 0-60 times around the 3-4 second time" is what all of us want, but how many of us can really afford $100k+ NSX?
 
HSC said:
Yes, "450-500 HP range and 0-60 times around the 3-4 second time" is what all of us want, but how many of us can really afford $100k+ NSX?
And for those that could drop 100 large, does the Honda/Acura badge warrant enough "marque cachet" to step up to this price point, or does the downpayment go to "something Italian" ?? A hypothetical question for most, including me :(

Or do they take the "modded used car" route, and build a comparable NSX for around $50-60K ($30K for the car, the rest for mods).
 
The problem for Honda is that the market has already clearly shown that very few people are even willing to pay $90k for an Acura.

When I bought the 03, I believe I was only one of around 225 people or so who were willing to give Honda that level of committment. And in trading in my 03 to a Porsche dealer, the huge depreciation hit basically told me that people are really only willing to pay in the low 60's for an NSX.

$100k isnt enough to really be considering a Ferrari. If you can just manage to swing the $100k, you need to admit to yourself that the Ferrari is out of your league. Believe me, that's the boat I'm in and I don't kid myself into thinking I can afford to OWN a Ferrari even though I can afford to BUY one.

$100k goes pretty far at Porsche, however, and that is the true question for Honda. Do they have conviction to really go head to head against Porsche.

When I traded my NSX in I decided to go used and cap my budget at around $50k because I am tired of taking depreciation hits and spending big money on cars. I ended up with a really gorgeous certified pre-owned 911 that was babied by the prior owner and traded in on a Cayenne.

While hanging around the dealership waiting on paperwork, etc., though, I have to admit that the GT3 was very, very tempting. The new GT3 was $100k flat and the dealership was willing to move a bit on it.

Sticker on the NSX is around $90k and invoice is $79k. From what I've seen, the dealers dont move at all with the $7500 incentive from Honda being ancient history and the "lease deal" ruling the day. What you're left with is essentially, a Porsche GT3 for $10k more than the NSX (pre-haggling) and an equal chance to haggle on both.

That is NOT a good situation for Honda and they have to think seriously about it moving forward because it only gets a LOT worse with the 997.
 
Re: 911 GT3

I totally agree with those statements, while I love the NSX to death, I do wish that Honda had kept up it's incremental development similar to how Porsche had done with their 911's throughout the years.

And before anyone slam the GT3, aside from the alum. thing and rear engine, it is very similar to the NSX-R in philosophy: light weight, harsh, pure sport, with titanium con rods, 8000+ rpm redline, NA motor.

If I had the money to shop for a new NSX (and not a '97, shows you my budget heh) I'd be hard pressed to not give the GT3 a serious comparison. With the 997's out, this winter dealers will be willing to let new and slightly used GT3s out the door for pretty reasonable prices, as they are doing now with the slow selling 40th Anniv. 911.
 
ss_md said:
Honda could have produced a high HP engine for the NSX derived from either F1 or CART years ago.
What makes you think that the F1/CART race engines have significant similarity to a high performance engine for street use?
 
satan_srv said:
Maybe you should check out the New BMW M5 5.0L V10 http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2040623.001

I think the HSC would RULE with the new M5 engine. Can you imagine 2800lbs and that engine!!! :eek:

Maybe Honda should buy it off BMW since Honda apparently cannot figure out how to put more than 6-cylinders into a production car. :rolleyes:
 
satan_srv said:
Maybe you should check out the New BMW M5 5.0L V10 http://www.germancarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2040623.001
I read the article, the BMW 5L V10 looks like a very nice STREET engine. Quoting the article "This technological masterpiece does not only sport the same number of cylinders as its Formula 1 BMW WilliamsF1 racing counterpart, but also shares its high-revving concept." Ok, it has the same number of cylinders. Same "high-revving concept"? It's redline of 8250 RPM is nearly half that of a F1 race engine.
 
Such cliche'!

NUK3M said:
it lacks wat the ferraris, Maclarens, Lambos have:

S E X appeal.

thats one boring ass car.
This "Sex appeal" thing does not make any sense to me perhaps due to my lack of imagination. I have never found ANY car sexually appealing! :D
Steve
 
Whoever send me a bad rep point from this thread, I hope you sent everyone else here one cause they all seem to agree. :mad:
 
Nissan built this, why not Honda?

ase_nissan-r390_gt1.jpg

Nissan%20R390%20GT1%20b.jpg


Anyways, I really want the next gen NSX to be an exciting driving machine. The current NSX is a great car too, but what I mean by this is...

well I mean...including Nissan R390GT1, other cars like Ferrari Enzo, Lamborghini Murcielago, Buggatti EB110, Pagani Zonda, McLaren F1, Jaguar XJ220, Lotus Elise GT1, Isdera Commendatore 112i, Porsche Carrera GT, Mercedes-Benz CLK GTR, etc.....

Those cars are in different region(world?) or whatever. I don't know how to explain but I really hope the next gen to be like one of those cars...

Hhhmmm...well, when I see NSXs at the car show(I'm not talking about Hot Import Nights, I'm talking about exotic car shows), I think NSX is not quite there yet.
When I see an NSX right beside Ferraries or Lamborghinies, I feel like NSX is in 1 or 2 steps lower level than other cars. NSX is not visually vigorous enough.
That's not because of Acura symbol, that's because of other stuff.

For example Nissan R390GT1, McLaren F1, Ferrari Enzo or Lamborghini Murcielago have something NSX doesn't have. I don't know how to explain clearly what it is, but it's not because of Acura symbol.
 
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Whoever send me a bad rep point from this thread, I hope you sent everyone else here one cause they all seem to agree

Maybe because every chance you get you mention "needs 400 horspower" at every available opportunity? It does get irritating!

(By the way it wasn't me, i say what i think out loud) :)
 
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