I got robbed....by the Acura dealer - $93 for 4 gals of coolant

[ConVerTT]

Holy hyperbole pbassjo ...

My reference to KFC was simply that Honda does not have a "secret recipe" for coolant that is proprietary and unavailable to consumers except through a Honda dealer ( a la KFC). Although it would seem Honda dealers want you think that they do ....

Not to discount your personal experience, but here are the facts:

1) Coolant is designed to meet a specific engineering standard.
2) Honda's coolant meets ASTM D-3306.
3) Other readily available generic coolants meet or exceed that standard.
4) By law, the containers are labelled. Simply read the label and proceed.

I am not here to tell people how to spend their hard earned money. I am just providing additional factual information so owners / enthusiasts can make an informed decision.

 

[LJSB]

Not to discount your personal experience, but here are the facts:

1) Coolant is designed to meet a specific engineering standard.
2) Honda's coolant meets ASTM D-3306.
3) Other readily available generic coolants meet or exceed that standard.
4) By law, the containers are labelled. Simply read the label and proceed.

I am not here to tell people how to spend their hard earned money. I am just providing additional factual information so owners / enthusiasts can make an informed decision.

I think it's pretty safe to say that car enthusiasts, particularly one that has the skill to change his timing belt/WP are aware that there are shelves of generic coolants available and that they all must meet the same general standards. I guess if you think they need reminding of this obvious fact and that you are bestowing them with information they didn't have before then fine but you'd be wrong

Want proof of this just start a discussion on oil. They may all meet the same required standards but people are a little more passionate about it then they are about coolant. Boy are they!

In this case both products meet generic standards but Honda has gone the additional step to dial it in for their specific design and Hugh's post help illustrate that very nicely in a manner I have not seen on NSXPrime before. It's specifically about our car and that's cool. (pun intended)

I think you like Prestone because it's the same color as your car. :biggrin: By the way it's nice to see someone using terms like "hyperbole". Having a good post by folks with a decent vocabulary raises the quality of this forum. Thumbs up. Hmmm, Toyota makes red coolant don't they?..................:smile:

 

[pgilliam1]

folks like us that stake their name and reputation on your NSX's repair use the Honda Type2.

Sounds like unintelligent twitter gossip to me :tongue:.

 

[shawn110975]

the visual of a unicorn pissing with 700 PSI lol isnt something I wanted to start off my monday,

but then Pbassjo reminded me of one of my most favorite shows as a kid

" The Bennie Hill Show "
da na na na na na na na na na la na da na na na na na

 

[ConVerTT]

I think it's pretty safe to say that car enthusiasts, particularly one that has the skill to change his timing belt/WP are aware that there are shelves of generic coolants available and that they all must meet the same general standards. I guess if you think they need reminding of this obvious fact and that you are bestowing them with information they didn't have before then fine but you'd be wrong

Hmmm. Interesting point - false conclusion. The OP seems to be an enthusiast, was able to change his own coolant, and seemed to be wondering if he overpaid. I offered that there were competitive alternatives if price was a concern. The basis of the post would indicate that this was NOT obvious to the OP.

Want proof of this just start a discussion on oil. They may all meet the same required standards but people are a little more passionate about it then they are about coolant. Boy are they!

In this case both products meet generic standards but Honda has gone the additional step to dial it in for their specific design and Hugh's post help illustrate that very nicely in a manner I have not seen on NSXPrime before. It's specifically about our car and that's cool. (pun intended)

Agreed on both points. Honda engineers did some pretty groundbreaking stuff when they designed this car. Oh wait - when was that? 1988. LOL - there have been a couple of improvement in both lubricants and coolants in the past 25 years.

And who makes "Prestone" anyways? Honeywell? What the heck do they know?

PS >>> Unicorn Pee isn't Spa Yellow Pearl ?

 

[LJSB]

Honda fluids are constantly being improved as technoogy advances and have been improved and changed with technological advances.
For example, witness the fact that originally the suggested MT fill was 10w30 motor oil and to date it has been chnaged and re-developed bringing 2 generations of Honda MT fluid since
Putting forth the suggestion their fuids are 1988 design and technology is nott helpful, truthful or constructive. It's just sheer brinkmanship.

What you're presenting about alternative fluids is nothing new to me or to most folks here. Meeting the same basic standard idoes not make the fluids identical in content or perfomance especally when it come to a specfic OEM application.

Prestone? Why stop there? There are other coolants that meet the exact same standard you mention for even less. That goes for all the fluid fills on this car or any car.
Here's a car that even if the fluids were bought in bulk I'd say it would be unlikely that they would not meet or exceed all manufacturere's reccomendations (Ford's) and I bet that they meet Honda's too. You could use them in your car if you want.
Nice color huh?:biggrin:

 

[BATMANs]

This stuff?

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...sb&fp=a5d3aaee932d1c51&ix=h9&biw=1042&bih=476

 

[sr5guy]

My experience with Type II coolant has been mixed. I have done over 100 3.5RL motor swaps in 91-95 Acura Legends and at first I suggested using the type II coolant to all of my customers. This stopped after I saw the affects of it after a year or two. The Type II coolant seems to be thinner in viscosity along with not having any additives or sealants. I learned that this could be a problem in a 20 year old car!

I would put the cars on the lift and see seepage coming from everywhere - from block drain washers, to coolant nipples to hose joints. It wasn't just one car- it was multiple cars. This seepage also caused the cars to faintly smell of coolant at all times. When they were converted to regular Prestone long life, the seepage stopped and everything returned to normal.

IMHO, the only benefit of using Type II coolant comes from it's long life. BUT, what NSX owner in their right mind would keep the coolant in their car for 8 years? Use quality, regular green aluminum safe antifreeze and run a flush every two years. Keep the type II stuff to cars that have run it their whole lives and are "used to it". I don't recommend converting to Type II if the car has had regular antifreeze in it.

-Matt

 

[ConVerTT]

Sigh. More hyperbole .... Brinkmanship? Better check your Funk and Wagnalls

You are missing my point - I am not saying the Honda product is bad, although I am not sure that it has been updated as you suggest. I am simply (repeatedly now) saying that there are competitive (both in terms of price and quality) alternatives, and I cited Prestone as one example.

While I don't know if Honda has updated their coolant since the 80's, I am quite sure Honeywell has done a ton of research in this area and is a leader in both the development of new coolants and coolant engineering standards. For your reference:

http://www.prestone.com/enca/company/news/article/486?popup=1

Oh, and when Honeywell claims that their coolant can be used in "any make or model with no adverse affects" WITHOUT CAVEAT they are staking their reputation (and the risk of a major class action lawsuit if the claim proves to be false) on it. The point? Their stake is at least as big as yours - no offense :biggrin:

Honda fluids are constantly being improved as technoogy advances and have been improved and changed with technological advances.
For example, witness the fact that originally the suggested MT fill was 10w30 motor oil and to date it has been chnaged and re-developed bringing 2 generations of Honda MT fluid since
Putting forth the suggestion their fuids are 1988 design and technology is nott helpful, truthful or constructive. It's just sheer brinkmanship.

What you're presenting about alternative fluids is nothing new to me or to most folks here. Meeting the same basic standard idoes not make the fluids identical in content or perfomance especally when it come to a specfic OEM application.

Prestone? Why stop there? There are other coolants that meet the exact same standard you mention for even less. That goes for all the fluid fills on this car or any car.
Here's a car that even if the fluids were bought in bulk I'd say it would be unlikely that they would not meet or exceed all manufacturere's reccomendations (Ford's) and I bet that they meet Honda's too. You could use them in your car if you want.
Nice color huh?:biggrin:

 

[White92]

So Kentucky Fried Chicken is your gold standard? LOL

I've been looking for at prices of both Prestone and the Honda.
I find both locally, not screwing around online, but locally where I actually buy the stuff and find at best $3-5 difference per gallon.

Now needing 4 gallons every 5 or so years comes to a whopping $12-20 dollars for the factory fill. That's about a large 20 piece bucket of KFC which I would never eat in the first place.

I have experienced different brand of coolants jelling when combined, and please note I said different brands not types. Combining different types of antifreeze will almost always make a mess when combined but that is not what we are discussing.
Now for me and my NSX customers the convenience of not keeping distilled water and doing the mixing myself it just makes sense to use the Honda Type 2.
In fact on all cars under 10 years old I use only OEM fluids throughout.

This example given by the OP of course is not under warranty. In fact the concern was not the quality of OEM vs Generic but what he was over charged by the dealer and he was overcharged. That can happen with Prestone too.

This thread has evolved into a OEM vs Generic coolant thread.

Since this is however the forum for the best NSX information and the best practices that one can find outside of the service manual, that is why I feel Hugh's post is so important.

It comes down to this:
Anyone that is doing a service that comes every 5 or more years, wants a OEM, factory fill with the absolutely correct coolant buy and use the Honda Type 2.

If you want to save $12-20 on that once every 5 or so year service buy the Prestone or some other generic brand.

Bear in mind:
It's a hand assembled, 10 bolt main motor made with various types and qualities of metals and the engineers that made it suggest using THEIR coolant. You don't have to listen, you can go to Walmart get a generic brand and while you're at it pop over to the grocery section and grap a couple of frozen pizzas or some frozen fried chicken and party!

Me, LarryB (I checked) and folks like us that stake their name and reputation on your NSX's repair use the Honda Type2.

You decide.

This reminds me of all of the people that would spend $40k -50k on a new Acura and then pitch a fit when they realize the car requires premium fuel. There's usually a .10 difference from mid grade to premium. That's maybe $2 more per tank. The Honda engineers are pretty smart. You're paying for the technology and performance, why not use it?

 

[ConVerTT]

Off - topic but that is a bunch of swaps. I really had no idea that swap was so popular! Is that a performance upgrade or just the original engines conking out? Or both?

Just curious . You can PM me if you prefer to keep thread this on-topic.

My experience with Type II coolant has been mixed. I have done over 100 3.5RL motor swaps in 91-95 Acura Legends and at first I suggested using the type II coolant to all of my customers. This stopped after I saw the affects of it after a year or two. The Type II coolant seems to be thinner in viscosity along with not having any additives or sealants. I learned that this could be a problem in a 20 year old car!

I would put the cars on the lift and see seepage coming from everywhere - from block drain washers, to coolant nipples to hose joints. It wasn't just one car- it was multiple cars. This seepage also caused the cars to faintly smell of coolant at all times. When they were converted to regular Prestone long life, the seepage stopped and everything returned to normal.

IMHO, the only benefit of using Type II coolant comes from it's long life. BUT, what NSX owner in their right mind would keep the coolant in their car for 8 years? Use quality, regular green aluminum safe antifreeze and run a flush every two years. Keep the type II stuff to cars that have run it their whole lives and are "used to it". I don't recommend converting to Type II if the car has had regular antifreeze in it.

-Matt

 

[NSXFXL]

This reminds me of all of the people that would spend $40k -50k on a new Acura and then pitch a fit when they realize the car requires premium fuel. There's usually a .10 difference from mid grade to premium. That's maybe $2 more per tank. The Honda engineers are pretty smart. You're paying for the technology and performance, why not use it?

+1
Wisely said.
Fernando

 

[OLDMNSX]

I think you like Prestone because it's the same color as your car. :biggrin: Hmmm, Toyota makes red coolant don't they?..................:smile:

Yes, they do, and you can get it UNDILUTED for $25 a gallon.

Well, not because of the color, but I put the TOYOTA coolant in my NSX. So for 4 gallons of 50/50 mix coolant: 2 gallons of distilled water @ $1/gallon. 2 gallons of Toyota Coolant @ $25/gallon equals $52!!!

Brad

 

[sr5guy]

Off - topic but that is a bunch of swaps. I really had no idea that swap was so popular! Is that a performance upgrade or just the original engines conking out? Or both?

Just curious . You can PM me if you prefer to keep thread this on-topic.

Blown head gaskets, combine that with the fact that a 3.5 engine can be sourced for around the same cost of a Legend Head gasket set = popular swap

Yes, they do, and you can get it UNDILUTED for $25 a gallon.

Well, not because of the color, but I put the TOYOTA coolant in my NSX. So for 4 gallons of 50/50 mix coolant: 2 gallons of distilled water @ $1/gallon. 2 gallons of Toyota Coolant @ $25/gallon equals $52!!!

Brad

Actually, BMW coolant is cheaper than Honda/Acura and uses the same formulation. It's the same color blue to boot. My jobber cost for concentrate BMW coolant is $17.00 a gallon, verses $18.00 a gallon for Acura Type II. Make 2 gallons for the same price!

-Matt

 

[LJSB]

FYI
Called my local vendors for a sampling of coolant prices.

$14.99 a gallon for Honda Type 2.

$13.88 a gallon from my Acura dealer for Type 2

AutoZone Prestone Longlife $13.99

Advanced Auto Parts Prestone Longlife: $11.99
Same place Dex Cool: $$11.99

BMW $18.99 a gallon concentrate not 50/50

Toyota Super Long Life: 50/50: $16.46

In the past we used concentrated coolant but I was concerned about the effect our water chemistry may have on the mix so have gone with pre-diluted. Our water has so much chlorine in it I don't like it to sit and dry on a finish.

 

[LJSB]

You are missing my point - I am not saying the Honda product is bad, although I am not sure that it has been updated as you suggest. I am simply (repeatedly now) saying that there are competitive (both in terms of price and quality) alternatives, and I cited Prestone as one example.

I hear you and understand what your point is. You have not suggested that the Honda coolant was bad nor did I state that you did.

I KNOW Honda fluids including their coolant have undergone revisions and improvement as I have beeen buying their products since the early 1970's.

I have shown the cost savings is neglible to most that can afford such a car.

I am so impressed with this car and the engineers that brought this car to realization that I believe THEIR brand, thier proprietary blend for this car is the best choice to replace the factory fill.

Yes, one can use Prestone but it's not exactly the same formulation as Honda Type2 and that is and has been my point all along.

One thing for sure the poor fellow that started this thread was not getting a very good price at all.

 

[nsxtasy]

" The Bennie Hill Show "
da na na na na na na na na na la na da na na na na na

Q: What do you get when you combine the Bennie Hill Show with an NSX?

A: Click here.

 

[ralph cerbone]

I just go down to my local Honda dealer and get the type two antifreeze, same place where I get my oil filters .what do you think Pabasso ?

 

[LJSB]

I just go down to my local Honda dealer and get the type two antifreeze, same place where I get my oil filters .what do you think Pabasso ?

I think that's what I do too. :biggrin::wink:
Maybe grab a couple of crush washers, a couple bottles of white cap Honda MTF, a tube of Honda bond ,a tube of Shin etsu grease, and a small tub of Honda urea grease as well. All stocked up and good to go.

On the way home stop at Rossi's deli for a nice capicola and provolone with vinegar peppers sandwich on nice crusty Italian bread. Yeah!
Come up to Poughkeepsie and I'll get you one too.:biggrin:

 

[docjohn]

I know what I would do in poughkeepsie..........http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...twIwAQ&usg=AFQjCNGAMsSH0xG28tHTyScERo-eOjPsrA

 

[LJSB]

I know what I would do in poughkeepsie..........http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...twIwAQ&usg=AFQjCNGAMsSH0xG28tHTyScERo-eOjPsrA

Ha! You remember that scene huh Doc? Cool.

 

[Tangoman]

I don't know, I'm an Engineer, and I love my ASTM specs. That said, I'm pretty sure my 91 NSX I just bought has the original coolant in it, ha.

 

[gt_nfr]

Well....didn't mean for this thread to go so far. Just wanted to rant. As a note, I do believe in using OEM spec'd stuff when it comes to stuff I replace every 5-10 years. In the S2000, the coolant service internval was 10 years so I had no issue using OEM Honda/Acura coolant. But then again, that only too 2 gallons.

The funny thing was when I asked the guy at the counter for FOUR gallons of coolant. He was quite confused as to why I needed that many :biggrin:

Sorry to bring up a touchy subject....and for the note, I support the OEM stuff. I work for a large engineering company and I see plenty hardware fail with 3rd party components. I know this isn't the same as coolant, but you get the drift.

 

[LJSB]

You were charged a higher price than I would pay but I get the impression you were already into the job and needed the stuff to complete it and sometimes you pay a little more if you want to get out of a jam right away.
Having someone try to at first charge you almost 100% higher than what you could get it for elsewhere is not very nice at all. In the end it still was on the top of the cost scale. I'd find another dealer to buy from because it seems this one likes charge a hefty markup OVER list.
Is the TB/WP back in and the car running again?

 

[nsxtasy]

In the S2000, the coolant service internval was 10 years

If it's like my MDX, that interval (120K miles or 10 years) is only for the original coolant. After that, it's every 60K miles or 5 years.

Also, the 120K/10 interval is irrelevant for most of us, who change the timing belt before that point, change the water pump at the same time, and flush coolant while doing the water pump.