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I can make forged 02+ replicas in 17/18 stagger
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
- Start date
- Status
OK I have some news. The company that can make these for me has no interest in retailing these or dealing with customers. That means the retailer will have to be me. Just what I was looking for, being I have a TK group buy, an autovation group buy and a shift light group buy going and a seat group buy brewing. LOL. Add to that the fact that I have a day job and and I am working on a replacement stereo solution for the NSX, now I have to do this wheel thing.
I am going to tell you guys some prices but this is very rough... there may be all kinds of other things involved and it may go up or down, this is just a rough ballpark.
In order to get wheels flow formed, roughly $35,000 in tooling costs are involved. That is because we have two different sized wheels. If they were both 17 or both 18, that cost would be cut in half. Once the tooling is done, we would need a minimum of 25 sets made. From there forward the wheels would cost somewhere between $400-450 a piece. That includes paint, center caps, shipment to the US. No matter how many we buy... be it the first 25 or 1000. Problem is somehow, someone has to cover those tooling costs.
The other option is to get the wheels forged. I've been told that these can be carved out of the proper sized forged "blanks". Somehow, and I didn't understand the detail of it, these blanks are not readily available but show up in limited quantities. So provided we get enough, they do not need the "tooling" and so those costs are not involved. The minimum quantity is also less, only 10 sets. I am not quite sure if that is 10 sets of each size or 10 sets total. I will have to clarify. The cost of Forged monoblocks would be about $800/wheel.
Again this is somewhat rough but at least it is information and it looks like they are willing to do it. All this would normally cost a lot more as there are a bunch of middlemen involved normally. Not one but several. What we have going here is the wheel from the manufacturer to the end user through me.
I am going to tell you guys some prices but this is very rough... there may be all kinds of other things involved and it may go up or down, this is just a rough ballpark.
In order to get wheels flow formed, roughly $35,000 in tooling costs are involved. That is because we have two different sized wheels. If they were both 17 or both 18, that cost would be cut in half. Once the tooling is done, we would need a minimum of 25 sets made. From there forward the wheels would cost somewhere between $400-450 a piece. That includes paint, center caps, shipment to the US. No matter how many we buy... be it the first 25 or 1000. Problem is somehow, someone has to cover those tooling costs.
The other option is to get the wheels forged. I've been told that these can be carved out of the proper sized forged "blanks". Somehow, and I didn't understand the detail of it, these blanks are not readily available but show up in limited quantities. So provided we get enough, they do not need the "tooling" and so those costs are not involved. The minimum quantity is also less, only 10 sets. I am not quite sure if that is 10 sets of each size or 10 sets total. I will have to clarify. The cost of Forged monoblocks would be about $800/wheel.
Again this is somewhat rough but at least it is information and it looks like they are willing to do it. All this would normally cost a lot more as there are a bunch of middlemen involved normally. Not one but several. What we have going here is the wheel from the manufacturer to the end user through me.
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So if we go flow formed we have to get 25 sets made which would be 3200. If my math is right 25sets minium X(4wheelsx450each)+35000tooling/25sets or if we do forged mono block 10sets minium X(4wheelsx800each) /10 sets is the same price for a forged wheel with less set required. I am in 100% for a forged wheel for that price.
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On another note. I personally appreciate all that I've seen you bring to our little family of car owners here as I am sure everyone else does or atleast they should lol So thanks Your fellow new englander
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On another note. I personally appreciate all that I've seen you bring to our little family of car owners here as I am sure everyone else does or atleast they should lol So thanks Your fellow new englander
You cried wolf too many times! Lol JK
Am I wasting time on this or are people seriously interested at a mid 3000 cost for forged units? These will be hubcentric and to our spec. And forged. A set of forged volks is 4500 easy with center caps and all. I thought you guys would be a little more excited than this.
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I know you are joking but if not, when did I ever do that? I have been at this for a long time now trying to get this done.
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I know you are joking but if not, when did I ever do that? I have been at this for a long time now trying to get this done.
- Joined
- 16 March 2007
- Messages
- 98
The pricing of fully-forged sounds extremely reasonable. I love the look of the stock rims & have a set on my '91, but they are woefully inadequate for those of us who have gone the forced induction route. If we come anywhere under the $4500 mark, I would definitely be in! I hope everyone realizes what a great opportunity this would be. Thanks TURBO2GO for all your legwork.
- Joined
- 25 February 2012
- Messages
- 2,165
Like I said, I have serious Advan lust, but I can control myself for another year because this option is clearly preferable.
I think we will be under 4K. What forged 17/18 sets sell for that in the aftermarket anyway?
I am 100% in for forged. Maybe even two sets.
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The way I see it someone will want a set after this has come and gone and I'll make a few bucks. Plus idk if you turbo or anyone else would want to go half on a set I'd like to have a spare wheel in each size. Just in case So I'm down for 2.5 sets
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The way I see it someone will want a set after this has come and gone and I'll make a few bucks. Plus idk if you turbo or anyone else would want to go half on a set I'd like to have a spare wheel in each size. Just in case So I'm down for 2.5 sets
Dave I only have one request lol I got to have the nsx-r decal on the lip like the real nsxr wheels I know me and my rice 
Lol
Lol
I'm in for a set.
17x8 front et 40
18x9.5 rear et 30
17x8 front et 40
18x9.5 rear et 30
Only kidding Dave I know you're for real in pursuing this!
Given the size of the community and the number of people who'd likely follow through on buying, forged seems like the only sends oboe option. If we can really get them close to $3200 that's a great deal!
Been following this thread from inception. Would be interested in forged set as well as at least one other NSX owner in this area. We both prefer 9 1/2 inch rear width but would settle for 10 if that was the consensus. Maybe you should do a poll---flow formed vs forged and 9.5 vs 10?
Opinion: Interest should increase dramatically once you start the official group buy.
Opinion: Interest should increase dramatically once you start the official group buy.
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I'm still in for forged wheels in 17X8 and 18X9.5. Let me know about a deposit.
I do not think flow forged is an option as we will need to get 25 sets made versus 10 and the price will be roughly the same Unless we get over 25 which I highly doubt as it is 10 might be hard to get.
Forged = I'm in for a set once it moves to a GB
btw, the aluminum blanks you seek are likely located in a warehouse in Detroit
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/29/us-lme-warehousing-idUSTRE76R3YZ20110729
Ok why don't we get a list of people who are seriously in of this happens
1. Turbo2go
2. Shaylord for 2.5 sets
3. RedWings
1. Turbo2go
2. Shaylord for 2.5 sets
3. RedWings
It's only been a day. Not everyone checks daily.
Will it help to keep costs down if we select one or two finishes so there is not a lot of variability in what is ordered...or is manufacturing the time to get different finishes done and it won't impact impact price or create too much hassle?
Dave I only have one request lol I got to have the nsx-r decal on the lip like the real nsxr wheels I know me and my rice
Same question as above. Is this something we should decide to make part of the default or not...and if people want something else they have to have it done after the fact?
Does machining out of forged blanks mean people can request different size rears (9.5" and 10")?
I'm excited about the idea but ultimately somewhat frugal. It's not $4500 for Volks vs. $3200 for these, as I'd never consider the Volks or most aftermarket wheels (due to looks, price, functionality). It's $0 for what I already have vs. $3200 for these (or maybe $2500 for 2002+ OEMs). Or $3200 for these vs $3200 for kid's college savings, home repair/improvement, family vacation, extra time off work, etc.
Still, I'm interested and considering...but can't make commitment to a "seriously in" list or such "on the spot" (at the time of reading the details for the first time).
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Same process as these?
http://www.fuchsperformance.com/page.cfm?t=wheel-production&id=13
http://www.aluminumprecision.com/capabilities/forged-wheels/
I ask because we're obviously not talking about impression-die (closed-die) forging.
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I think Forged Monoblocks are fairly easy to make, as the blank cylinders are already forged. All that's really done is by lathing and CNC milling of the forged cylinder to make the basic wheel shape. Once the basic shape is done, you can pretty much have any spoke design or shape you want.
There shouldn't really be any specific tooling costs because every wheels is made using the same basic tools. A CAD design program, a lathe and a CNC milling machine. I think a lot of the Forged wheel companies you see on the market today just buy the Forged blanks from another company and then just mill the designs themselves.
Here's a few videos that show how it's done.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/7xn58aQowBA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/bC-hQkybQPY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Lastly, if there's so much back and forth about having 18x10 vs 18x9.5, you should consider making the rear a 2 piece wheel so that you can order different rear widths. The front face would look like a single piece, but it would mount to the rear half in the middle.
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Latzke brought up some good questions about the details.
I think the votes for 9.5 rears would be winning at the moment. For the record, if the price is $3200 for forged 17x8 and I can do 18x10 with aggressive fitment, I am in. Hopefully the finish choices are somewhat flexible.
I know it sounds silly with the .5 inch argument, but one of the whole points of this endeavor essentially is for visually balanced 17/18 versus the stock 17/17 look. The other factors are more flush look while of course clearing BBK in process. People have been saying that 9.5 can accommodate many wheel sizes and thus provide a performance edge over the 10 inch width by saving a little bit of weight. Well, 17 inch wheels in the rear can also provide a performance edge over 18 inch rears and the cost factor goes down substantial. However, we all want 18s in the rear to balance it out visually more than anything else. I want the 10 inch rear to match the 8 inch front visually and mathematically. It's the same concept as desiring 17/18 instead of the stock 17/17. I don't see that as being an unreasonable request. That is my final argument for the matching 17x8 and 18x10 set.
I think the votes for 9.5 rears would be winning at the moment. For the record, if the price is $3200 for forged 17x8 and I can do 18x10 with aggressive fitment, I am in. Hopefully the finish choices are somewhat flexible.
I know it sounds silly with the .5 inch argument, but one of the whole points of this endeavor essentially is for visually balanced 17/18 versus the stock 17/17 look. The other factors are more flush look while of course clearing BBK in process. People have been saying that 9.5 can accommodate many wheel sizes and thus provide a performance edge over the 10 inch width by saving a little bit of weight. Well, 17 inch wheels in the rear can also provide a performance edge over 18 inch rears and the cost factor goes down substantial. However, we all want 18s in the rear to balance it out visually more than anything else. I want the 10 inch rear to match the 8 inch front visually and mathematically. It's the same concept as desiring 17/18 instead of the stock 17/17. I don't see that as being an unreasonable request. That is my final argument for the matching 17x8 and 18x10 set.
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