HSC project stopped...

[Gerard van Santen]

The latest edition of the Dutch AutoWeek stated that the HSC project will be killed. Honda is afraid not to sell enough HSC supercars is mentioned as an explanation.

I think this is good news for the present NSX owners. But bad news for Honda as supercar manufacturer. And bad news for those who thought of buying a HSC.

Perhaps this is a rumour picked up by a journalist. I don't know. Next months wil give clarity I hope.

 

[MarkB]

Has anyone here given any thought to the HSC being merely a mid level sports car and that we haven't yet seen the replacement for the NSX.

I believe the Honda CEO said the next NSX will be a Ferrari killer. It is obvious that the HSC, as presented, would not be a Ferrari killer.

 

[NetViper]

I believe the Honda CEO said the next NSX will be a Ferrari killer. It is obvious that the HSC, as presented, would not be a Ferrari killer.

I would venture to say from what I have read the HSC would barely be a corvette killer, let alone Ferrari.

If it was a mid-level sports car, at the 60K pricetag with a 350HP V6, I think it would do well.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

I would venture to say from what I have read the HSC would barely be a corvette killer, let alone Ferrari.

If it was a mid-level sports car, at the 60K pricetag with a 350HP V6, I think it would do well.

I agree with you on first point.

I would be really shocked if your second statement came true.

 

[Meeyatch1]

I would venture to say from what I have read the HSC would barely be a corvette killer, let alone Ferrari.

If it was a mid-level sports car, at the 60K pricetag with a 350HP V6, I think it would do well.

That sounds about right. It is kind of frustrating to know that Honda has the ability to make a really amazing supercar and they are not doing it. I would love to see them come out with a car that made the Corvette, Porsche, and Ferrari crowd stop and take notice....you know, like back in 1990.

 

[AU_NSX]

Has anyone here given any thought to the HSC being merely a mid level sports car and that we haven't yet seen the replacement for the NSX.

I believe the Honda CEO said the next NSX will be a Ferrari killer. It is obvious that the HSC, as presented, would not be a Ferrari killer.

I have absolutely no idea what Honda are planning so I am just guessing or is it wishful thinking...

I think the HSC will be built and I think we all can see that the specs are such that it will "merely a mid level sports car" maybe a competitor for the Corvette or the 350Z or for a car yet to be released by Toyota?

What you have said here Mark got me thinking.... We all remember why Honda built the NSX in the first place.... They were winning F1 with Ayrton Senna and wanted to prove they could do it with a road car as well... Wella! The NSX was born.

Honda came in second in the F1 constructors championship this year, and have now bought 40% of BAR... This would lead you to believe that they are serious about going after the F1 title.

If they get to the top of F1 again by knocking Ferrari off the top... They will forever be remembered for beating Ferrari and I reckon they will have a NSX replacement that will indeed be a Ferrari killer as well waiting in the wings!

What better way to cement their reputation… Beat Ferrari on the track and then on the road as well!

We shall see... When I wake up!

 

[WingZ]

There was another thread with dealers mention $60k car in Acura's line-up.

Man that would be awesome! Sorry I really like the HSC and hope they show it again at next years Detroit Auto show.

 

[ADNOH]

They were winning F1 with Ayrton Senna and wanted to prove they could do it with a road car as well... Wella! The NSX was born.

I believe that Honda can beat ferrari. I believe that Honda will built a new NSX when they win F1. But the only problem to me is if Honda is able to beat that schumachaer(s/p?) guy.

 

[Timpo]

I think this is good news for the present NSX owners.

why? I think everybody wants to see next gen NSX.

 

[Gerard van Santen]

why? I think everybody wants to see next gen NSX.

The present NSX will be more valuable and I think it is for us owners of a NSX better to see a complete new Honda supercar than a replacement for the present NSX.

A replacement can not compete with the modern definition of a supercar.

Perhaps we are in the possession of a future collectors item. :wink:

If you want to buy a next generation Honda supercar that can compete with modern supercars than that is OK for me. But the HSC as a replacement for the NSX???

Yes with an eight cylinder 450HP, 400 torque engine. That's a complete different story and not to be considered as a replacement.

 

[Procar Specials]

Some months before, my japanese R&D buddy told me that Honda
decided not to introduce the HSC. That would be a fact.
My german R&D contact person told me the same short time later.

He told me that Honda decided to go in NSX-R direction...... light car, small engine.

Surely that guys knows more than we all, but I dont wonder if tomorrow
Honda would change all plans again.

It would be nice if Honda could introduce again a 'state of the art' sportscar
like in year 1991 with the NSX, but I fear the air is getting thinner.

 

[Andrie Hartanto]

From my conversation with Honda Engineers this past weekend at 25 hours Enduro. They were racing Acura TL under Honda Research & Development group. What a bunch of passionate racers. They did say there will be no NSX replacement for a while. They did started with HSC, but it was deemed not good enough and they stopped development on it. I stipulated is it because the sales, and if Honda will never do new NSX again. His response was, Honda will do NS replacement. It was never because sales figure. NSX was created because it is Honda flagship. The replacement will be the best car, as it was the NSX. Anything less is not acceptable. That's why they stopped HSC.

 

[NsXMas]

I've got my HSC deposit sitting in the bank longer, I guess

 

[NetViper]

NSX was created because it is Honda flagship. The replacement will be the best car, as it was the NSX. Anything less is not acceptable. That's why they stopped HSC.

To me, that screams new powerplant. Here's why. The HSC to me was gorgeous and very well received from what I have read (except the butt maybe). The only area that was not up to par was the powerplant. A 3.5L V6 will not cut it with todays supercars. Maybe Honda will create a bad-ass V10 to go in there.

 

[UxiNSX]

I don't think so. A 400hp 3.5L with a 9000rpm redline would do just fine if they kept the weight steady. Put that in a coupe with Type-R-like aerodynamics and weight savings and you're in the same place the 400hp V8 gets you. That's mid-low 12s stock and high 11's after some modding / aka reliability reduction.

 

[Gerard van Santen]

To me, that screams new powerplant. Here's why. The HSC to me was gorgeous and very well received from what I have read (except the butt maybe). The only area that was not up to par was the powerplant. A 3.5L V6 will not cut it with todays supercars. Maybe Honda will create a bad-ass V10 to go in there.

Is a porsche 996TT considered to be a Supercar? I think so. But it has only a flat six powerplant.

 

[NetViper]

Is a porsche 996TT considered to be a Supercar? I think so. But it has only a flat six powerplant.

Yes, but it is a twin turbo with 420hp. Not a 3.5L V6 with 340.

 

[Gerard van Santen]

Yes, but it is a twin turbo with 420hp. Not a 3.5L V6 with 340.

OK. So the issue isn't the amount of cylinders, but more the amount of horsepower and torque.

Why don't stick with a small and light V6 engine and go the Porsche way?

A lot of us SC or T(T) NSX owners have proven, that it is possible to built a reliable FI engine. So why compare with those eight and ten cylinder supercars? Six seems to be enough.

 

[NetViper]

OK. So the issue isn't the amount of cylinders, but more the amount of horsepower and torque.

Why don't stick with a small and light V6 engine and go the Porsche way?
A lot of us SC or T(T) NSX owners have proven, that it is possible to built a reliable FI engine. So why compare with those eight and ten cylinder supercars. Six seems to be enough.

I am ok with that, but a lot of NSX owners on this site want to keep the car NA.

If Honda wants to stay NA, they will need a larger displacement engine. Looking at the Ferrari F430 and Lambo Gallardo, Honda would need at least a 4.0L V8 or V10 to be competitive and create a good amount of TQ.

I would guess the lambo and Ferrari engines do not weigh much more than the oldschool 3.2 V6 we have. I have read the Z06 V8 only weights slightly more than our 3.2 or 3.0.

 

[Gerard van Santen]

I am ok with that, but a lot of NSX owners on this site want to keep the car NA.

If Honda wants to stay NA, they will need a larger displacement engine. Looking at the Ferrari F430 and Lambo Gallardo, Honda would need at least a 4.0L V8 or V10 to be competitive and create a good amount of TQ.

I would guess the lambo and Ferrari engines do not weigh much more than the oldschool 3.2 V6 we have. I have read the Z06 V8 only weights slightly more than our 3.2 or 3.0.

You've got a point there. But the advantage the NSX V6 engine has over all the mentioned supercars is, that it is so small, that it doesn't need to be placed in length direction. So it is a really 100% mid engine. Another advantage is, that it has less % of drivetrain loss than the others.

Give me a V6 3.5L with 400HP NA. Look at the BMW M3. They can do it.

 

[NetViper]

Give me a V6 3.5L with 400HP NA. Look at the BMW M3. They can do it.

True, but the next gen M3 is going to be a V8 (i think 4.0L) with over 400HP.

 

[Gerard van Santen]

True, but the next gen M3 is going to be a V8 (i think 4.0L) with over 400HP.

You've got me again :frown:

This discussion I can not win :frown:

I think I'll stick with my CTSC NSX with almost 400HP and 385NM torque :biggrin:

 

[burbel]

You've got me again :frown:

This discussion I can not win :frown:

I think I'll stick with my CTSC NSX with almost 400HP and 385NM torque :biggrin:

To be honest, with modern supercars, we're in another huge horsepower war; if Honda wants to play in this space, the power they put down will be one of the largest selling points. Around 600bhp Ford GT, the new Z06 will be around 500bhp, and I can imagine the new things coming out in 2-3 years.

Personally I'd be happy with a new NSX that is a refined Elise, small, compact, but comfortable, and powerful enough to give the faster cars a run for their money in the straights.

 

[effer]

This discussion I can not win :frown:

Both of you brought very good points. So I don't perceive your conversation as a debate resulting in a loser and a winner! :smile:

I still believe Honda can win again the engine output war leading to a super engine albeit NA and V6.

I buy the small NA V6 transverse philosophy at today's efficiency:

3,8 L or 4,0 L redlining @ 10k rpm showing 135-140 hp/L.

However, maybe you know that next FIA regulations about F1 engine will oblige V8 instead of V10.

So there will be very serious possibilities of seeing Honda simultaneously developing a roadcar NA V8.


I also agree with Honda to wait before lauching an NSX replacement model if they want to introduce a real Ferrari-Lambo beater even if they should have wake up earlier! The HSC could be the car with the proper powertrain.

But meanwhile the actual NSX should get at least a NA 3,5 L @ 350 hp, otherwise, could we frankly speak about real flagship car ??? Maybe a smallship car... :biggrin:

Cheers everybody!

 

[Dr.Honda]

Sad, if true (and I suspect it is based on the lack of any credible evidence
to the contrary). I really liked the HSC from a design standpoint. :frown: