We made it to page 11!
HSC=Next NSX?
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We made it to page 11!
Yes, Motor Trend said that Ford had reported less than $150K, and they (Motor Trend) said they would estimate that to mean $149,999.00! Seems like a neat car, but too pricey for me considering it uses a Ford Focus Steering column, and the Engine is not very exotic in today's terms. I think at $80-90K it would sell better than it is likely to at the current estimate. Ford probably could sell them for the lower price, but they made it clear that this would not be a car they intended to lose money on, so I guess the 60-70K cushion helps them acheive that goal.
Shumdit,
Since you hate the HSC and obviously have a bad taste in your mouth from the Ford GT (both of which I would gladly park in my garage and pay the ridiculous insurance rates for, and I have inquired about the GT to numerous dealers, to no avail), what would you spend your hard earned dough on????
Since you hate the HSC and obviously have a bad taste in your mouth from the Ford GT (both of which I would gladly park in my garage and pay the ridiculous insurance rates for, and I have inquired about the GT to numerous dealers, to no avail
), what would you spend your hard earned dough on????
From what I understand and from other threads on this board about the gt, ford is outsourcing many components and will be putting all the pieces together,imo this costs ford more per unit than working in house,thus the percieved high price.If it performs as expected and dose'nt fall apart(I don't expect it to ) then compared to whats out there it is priced in the ball park.I like the speculation generated by the sound bytes of Honda execs and designers!I've always felt there would be two configurations of the new nsx to suit two differing price points.I also believe that showing your hand last allows you to one up the competition within reason,since the lead time for these cars means that there is probably a very close to production nsx somewhere on this planet.Why don't we get a group of psycho prime members together and in disguise (half baked on Sake and x) break into Honda R&D and check it out for ourselves!
I think he likes it in there
ncdogdoc said:Shumdit,
Since you hate the HSC and obviously have a bad taste in your mouth from the Ford GT (both of which I would gladly park in my garage and pay the ridiculous insurance rates for, and I have inquired about the GT to numerous dealers, to no avail
I do not hate the HSC, I strongly dislike the styling, however I do not dislike the drivetrain (at least what it rumored to be) as I do not need 400-500HP, whereas many here have done nothing else but whine about that even though they do not know what the car will weigh, and that needs to be taken into consideration with the HP numbers. Honestly, the HSC has some good elements in its design, but as a whole I do not like the look (particularly the squared off rear), especially as an NSX replacement. I do not have a bad taste in my mouth on the Ford, if you read my post. I simply think, and with good reason, that the car is overpriced for what you are getting. As I said at 80-90K the car is much more attractive, and in line price-wise with a Viper, 911TT etc. that are different cars with disadvantages/advantages over the Ford, but likely cars it will compete with, along with the 360 which I feel is overpriced also, but at least there is more of a mystique with the Ferrari. Finally, where would I spend my hard earned dough? Well currently I have an NSX, but truthfully, before I would consider spending that much dinero on a car (150K), I would have to think about another vacation home, maybe a little cabin up in the mountains for weekends. So regardless of how I feel about the cars, I am only stating my opinion based on what I feel subjectively, not as a potential purchaser, and I would wager the majority here would fall into the same category. I hope you can at least see where I am coming from here, regardless of whether or not you agree.
Shum
Doc,- You can take what I said out of context if it makes you feel superior, 
but what I said was an 80-90K Ford was more in line with a 116K Porsche, than a 150K Ford would be considering the Porsche has more cache, AWD, and other elements going for it. I am not a Porschephile, so I am not going to get into the merits of one or the other. I think anyone who looks at the post should be able to understand it. That said, if I find a 80-90K 996TT brand new, I will PM you immediately (don't hold your breath! )
but what I said was an 80-90K Ford was more in line with a 116K Porsche, than a 150K Ford would be considering the Porsche has more cache, AWD, and other elements going for it. I am not a Porschephile, so I am not going to get into the merits of one or the other. I think anyone who looks at the post should be able to understand it. That said, if I find a 80-90K 996TT brand new, I will PM you immediately (don't hold your breath! )
Hey Shumdit,
You cheated. The question was asking what you would spend $150k on for a vehicle. Personally, If the HSC had a larger side intake along with with a top intake for that large flat slab on the side and well.....a couple other minor changes. I would buy it at $90k before I buy the Ford GT. Granted this might stem from my dislike of Ford; however, IMHO the Ford GT (like most Fords) is extremely ugly and boxy.
You know what. If you gave me a $150k purse for a new car, being the lover of NSXs that I am, I would see if I could have a new NSX coupe constructed (black on black) for me and then spend the rest at http://www.scienceofspeed.com to make her into my dream NSX, velocity stack, JGTC body kit and all. Though I'm sure such an act would be considered murder to the car by some of you i.e. Ken. But, I'm simply an anomaly of the NSX matrix taking things to the extreme.
Oh yeah. I would very much like to see the Ford GT run a few long term test runs along with the HSC. Then compare quality and reliability issues. Someone here said that if you pay $150k for what should be Fords best car, one would expect that all reliability issues would be resolved. Well, I'm sorry, but if you spend $30k for a car from Honda and it performs well in the reliability department; and, if you pay $30 for a Ford and get reliability and quality issues,then this doesn't seem to make sense now does it? So, does that mean one must spend extreme amounts of money to assure quality and reliability from Ford?
Go ahead and park the HSC in my garage thank you. The "HONDA" badging alone has sold it for me. I don't care if the whole world was foaming at the mouth for a Ford GT. I think its ugly and its a Ford. Honda makes exceptional cars ergo the HSC will be an exceptional car. Nuff said.
Hey.....did I mention I don't like Ford.
You cheated. The question was asking what you would spend $150k on for a vehicle. Personally, If the HSC had a larger side intake along with with a top intake for that large flat slab on the side and well.....a couple other minor changes. I would buy it at $90k before I buy the Ford GT. Granted this might stem from my dislike of Ford; however, IMHO the Ford GT (like most Fords) is extremely ugly and boxy.
You know what. If you gave me a $150k purse for a new car, being the lover of NSXs that I am, I would see if I could have a new NSX coupe constructed (black on black) for me and then spend the rest at http://www.scienceofspeed.com to make her into my dream NSX, velocity stack, JGTC body kit and all. Though I'm sure such an act would be considered murder to the car by some of you i.e. Ken. But, I'm simply an anomaly of the NSX matrix taking things to the extreme.
Oh yeah. I would very much like to see the Ford GT run a few long term test runs along with the HSC. Then compare quality and reliability issues. Someone here said that if you pay $150k for what should be Fords best car, one would expect that all reliability issues would be resolved. Well, I'm sorry, but if you spend $30k for a car from Honda and it performs well in the reliability department; and, if you pay $30 for a Ford and get reliability and quality issues,then this doesn't seem to make sense now does it? So, does that mean one must spend extreme amounts of money to assure quality and reliability from Ford?
Go ahead and park the HSC in my garage thank you. The "HONDA" badging alone has sold it for me. I don't care if the whole world was foaming at the mouth for a Ford GT. I think its ugly and its a Ford. Honda makes exceptional cars ergo the HSC will be an exceptional car. Nuff said.
Hey.....did I mention I don't like Ford.
LOL, yes I think I did catch some sort of dislike for Ford there Blades. I am not sure how I cheated, but I assume you mean by not spending 150K on a car, instead of a house. Yeah, you know, I am a devil's advocate sometimes, and an A-hole most of the time. What can I say? Type A personality people can be like that. Either way, I hope no one takes too much of what I say to heart, as I am pretty full of it, according to my wife. I just am here to learn, be entertained, and throw out my $.02 when I think I can stir the pot, or add something to the conversation, even if it is sometimes controversial.
Forgive me my sins!
Forgive me my sins!
We are all sinners!Anyway back to our discussion,You did say that an 80-90k ford would be more in line with a 911tt and thats your opinion, but if you take a critical look at who and how the new gt is being built you'll see that's about as clear as calling our nsx a honda In essence you are getting a saleen S-7 for 1/3 the price and with a better warranty.And I feel that Ford will indeed succeed with its nostalgic reinvention of its' most successful sports racing car.And not to get to far astray,,I like the hsc,but agree the rear end needs some work.Oh and if I want to really feel superior then I normaly arm wrestle 3rd graders!
In essence you are getting a saleen S-7 for 1/3 the price and with a better warranty.And I feel that Ford will indeed succeed with its nostalgic reinvention of its' most successful sports racing car.And not to get to far astray,,I like the hsc,but agree the rear end needs some work.Oh and if I want to really feel superior then I normaly arm wrestle 3rd graders!December issue of car and driver has an article on the hsc. In brief, it states honda didn't deny it would be the next nsx. Interview with Nobuki Ebisawa senior chief engineer admits it has similiarties to ferraris and that we can expect a few sheetmetal modifications before they finalize the production model. Additionalyl, its estimated to be 3.5L to 3.8L v6 350-380hp since the 19 rims and brembro would indicate that it has alot more than 300 hp.
I really don't understand why not a v8. Honda will eventually have to build a v8 car but guess not in this decade.
I really don't understand why not a v8. Honda will eventually have to build a v8 car but guess not in this decade.
I've always thought that the rear end was the weakest visual angle on my beautiful NSX. After seeing the HSC, I now appreciate the rear end of my 97 more -- in comparison to the HSC, the 91-00 NSX has a way nicer butt. I really hope that changes before the production car comes out.
People have compared it to the Corvette's. I think the Corvette rear is too fat, but otherwise OK -- the taillights look pretty good. But the little HSC inner lights off line of the main ones, and then the even smaller ones like a colon between them, all on a flat slab surface -- yuck. And the exhaust pipes made my wife ask whether that is where poop comes out.
This is one place I wish they HAD copied Ferrari more. Even the Ferraris I have not particularly liked from the front (like the F360's disappointment after the beautiful F355) have had beautiful rear ends with a classic row of inline round taillights.
The front is nice, perhaps even nicer than the 91-00 (I'm not sure), but regardless is not nice enough to make up for the back unless it changes, in my opinion. I'm beginning to think my Lexus coupe is not the only car I that I bought before the styling got ruined.
Chip
People have compared it to the Corvette's. I think the Corvette rear is too fat, but otherwise OK -- the taillights look pretty good. But the little HSC inner lights off line of the main ones, and then the even smaller ones like a colon between them, all on a flat slab surface -- yuck. And the exhaust pipes made my wife ask whether that is where poop comes out.
This is one place I wish they HAD copied Ferrari more. Even the Ferraris I have not particularly liked from the front (like the F360's disappointment after the beautiful F355) have had beautiful rear ends with a classic row of inline round taillights.
The front is nice, perhaps even nicer than the 91-00 (I'm not sure), but regardless is not nice enough to make up for the back unless it changes, in my opinion. I'm beginning to think my Lexus coupe is not the only car I that I bought before the styling got ruined.
Chip
Tan
I disagree. IMO, the front and rear make this one of the most beautiful cars I have ever seen. IOTOH, have low opinions about the side. I wish they would have kept the current NSX side. But, Bottom line is......ASAP, I will be getting this car.
Thought I throw this one into the mix......
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/news_23_1/index.html
just-sites.com - October 23, 2003
They make look like thinly disguised replacements for Hondas NSX supercar and Insight electric car, but the company was refusing to admit that its concepts were any such thing at the Tokyo Motor Show.
Unofficially its a different story with the IMAS and HSC (Honda Sports Concept) expected to go into production before too long. Most blatant was the HSC which still looks like the current NSX from the front. Designer Toshinoba Minami, however, denied that his baby was set to hit the showrooms.
It is a design study going back to sports car origins, he said. A lightweight vehicle with a compact, high powered engine. Normally you would expect to find a V8 or V10 engine in such a car, but we have put in a V6 3.5-litre engine which produces as much power as either of those. 300bhp, to be precise.
Insiders say the NSX replacement, which will be pretty close to the Tokyo concept, is due in 2006 or 2007.
http://www.automobilemag.com/news/news_23_1/index.html
just-sites.com - October 23, 2003
They make look like thinly disguised replacements for Hondas NSX supercar and Insight electric car, but the company was refusing to admit that its concepts were any such thing at the Tokyo Motor Show.
Unofficially its a different story with the IMAS and HSC (Honda Sports Concept) expected to go into production before too long. Most blatant was the HSC which still looks like the current NSX from the front. Designer Toshinoba Minami, however, denied that his baby was set to hit the showrooms.
It is a design study going back to sports car origins, he said. A lightweight vehicle with a compact, high powered engine. Normally you would expect to find a V8 or V10 engine in such a car, but we have put in a V6 3.5-litre engine which produces as much power as either of those. 300bhp, to be precise.
Insiders say the NSX replacement, which will be pretty close to the Tokyo concept, is due in 2006 or 2007.
Blades, I would like to see a 30k Honda compared to 30k for another import, like a Lexus or Infiniti or even a Buick, manufacturers which have less problems per 100 vehicles than Honda over a 3 year period.
Honda is getting its ass handed to it in the quality/reliability department compared to other import or select domestic brands for 2000 MY vehicles.
I don't like Ford either, and we can both dislike the marque and beat up on them in reliability, however Honda doesn't lead the pack among its peers.
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000166266.cfm
Honda is getting its ass handed to it in the quality/reliability department compared to other import or select domestic brands for 2000 MY vehicles.
I don't like Ford either, and we can both dislike the marque and beat up on them in reliability, however Honda doesn't lead the pack among its peers.
http://www.imakenews.com/autospies/e_article000166266.cfm
JaguarXJ6 said:
Lies, damn lies, and statistics. In MY 2000, Honda and Acura sold re-badged Isuzu trucks, i.e. the Passport and SRX. Do you think they had an impact on the ratings?
Take the trucks out of the equation, and I expect Honda to be on par with Infiniti, Lexus, and Buick. Wait until you have a year without Isuzu to conclude Honda is slipping. Note 2003 stats show Honda and Acura doing quite well.
JaguarXJ6 said:
Fogive me. I honestly looked over that link you posted. Correct me if I'm wrong, though it seems that Honda is in the top of the list in every segment. It even has one of the top three sport cars. It doesn't seem to me that Honda is "getting its arse handed" at all. Though, I am a bit off today. This morning before work, I poured myself a bowl of cereal and accidentally used orange juice instead of milk. Then I put the cereal box in the fridge and put the OJ in the cabinet. It's been a long day
But.............um..................HONDA RULES!!!!
Sharing Genes?
I think it's very narrow-minded and shortsighted to dismiss any car, just because you don't like the overall brand. If you are a true car enthusiast, you would appreciate all exceptional cars on their own merits, instead of looking at their badge.
Do you dislike the Viper, because it's a Dodge? Yes, not the most reliable car, but what a unique look and what monster power.
Do you hate the XJ220, because the XJ6 was one of the most unreliable cars this world has ever seen?
The Ford GT was, and is, a great looking car, IMO. An article I read in one of the mags (C&D or MT) spoke very highly of it, saying that the design is excellent. They compared the ride with an Enzo (if I remember correctly), and ranked it higher. Above all else, what caught my eye was that the GT has some brutal power, but is very forgiving, while the Enzo took a lot more work.
As far as I'm concerned, if Yugo comes out with a super car, and it performs, and is aesthetically pleasing, I'm not going to give a rat's ass that it's a Yugo.
Do you dislike the Viper, because it's a Dodge? Yes, not the most reliable car, but what a unique look and what monster power.
Do you hate the XJ220, because the XJ6 was one of the most unreliable cars this world has ever seen?
The Ford GT was, and is, a great looking car, IMO. An article I read in one of the mags (C&D or MT) spoke very highly of it, saying that the design is excellent. They compared the ride with an Enzo (if I remember correctly), and ranked it higher. Above all else, what caught my eye was that the GT has some brutal power, but is very forgiving, while the Enzo took a lot more work.
As far as I'm concerned, if Yugo comes out with a super car, and it performs, and is aesthetically pleasing, I'm not going to give a rat's ass that it's a Yugo.
nkb said:
Well, I agree with what you are saying. I simply do not like the Ford GT. Yes it does stem from my dislike of Ford. I have heard alot of people say that they just can't see themselves spending money for the NSX cuz "its just a Honda". So, if Yugo came out with a super-car that performs well in many ways, you have to agree that many people will judge it negatively simply because it's a Yugo. It might be narrow minded, its also human nature.
I would drive a Ford GT given the oppurtunity though
Well said NKB
Bladesnsx,
Your Ford and Honda comparison are way off. While your at it, why dont you compare say a 250 GTO to say a Honda civic, does that make the civic a better car? That is an example of your ignorance.
I bought a brand new Integra in 92 now with over 260K miles ( still a strong runner alive and breathing well) does this make it a better car than my 67 Ford GT?
Quite frankly I dont think you know the history or didley squat about the GT40 therefore you have no respect for it , you have the slightest clue what the legendary GT40 is about, all you know is its built by Ford
You had a horrible experience with your Ford Truck big freakin deal, everyone knows a Honda will out last a Ford any given day but when you bash the legendary GT40 really shows your ignorance .
Hey, did I mention I dont like narrowminded individuals
Bladesnsx,
Your Ford and Honda comparison are way off. While your at it, why dont you compare say a 250 GTO to say a Honda civic, does that make the civic a better car? That is an example of your ignorance.
I bought a brand new Integra in 92 now with over 260K miles ( still a strong runner alive and breathing well) does this make it a better car than my 67 Ford GT?
Quite frankly I dont think you know the history or didley squat about the GT40 therefore you have no respect for it , you have the slightest clue what the legendary GT40 is about, all you know is its built by Ford
You had a horrible experience with your Ford Truck big freakin deal, everyone knows a Honda will out last a Ford any given day but when you bash the legendary GT40 really shows your ignorance
.Hey, did I mention I dont like narrowminded individuals
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spartan2-3 said:Well said NKB
Bladesnsx,
Your Ford and Honda comparison are way off. While your at it, why dont you compare say a 250 GTO to say a Honda civic, does that make the civic a better car? That is an example of your ignorance.
I bought a brand new Integra in 92 now with over 260K miles ( still a strong runner alive and breathing well) does this make it a better car than my 67 Ford GT?
Quite frankly I dont think you know the history or didley squat about the GT40 therefore you have no respect for it , you have the slightest clue what the legendary GT40 is about, all you know is its built by Ford
You had a horrible experience with your Ford Truck big freakin deal, everyone knows a Honda will out last a Ford any given day but when you bash the legendary GT40 really shows your ignorance
Let me say this. I don't go on this furom and insult anyone. I don't call anyone stupid or ingnorant or arrogant.
I know enough about the GT40 to respect the accomplishments it has achieved. I have gone to the Ford's site to read and learn a little about this 500 hp, 500 lb/ft of torque V-8 supercharged Ford super car. Please remind me of where and when I said the Ford GT 40 is a POS car. If you consider it "BASHING" then I will keep my opinions to myself and you can keep your mouth shut as well. I expressed my opinion and will continue to do so. What I don't need are your insults.
I have had more than a bad experience with a truck. I deal with Fords on a daily basis. I have heard many stories about Fords reliability issues. You yourself said "everyone knows a Honda will out last a Ford any given day". I may be guilty of "bashing" Ford but not the Ford GT 40.
So, get off my case....go buy yourself a Ford GT40. I don't give a damn either way so long as its not my money. Does that statement mean I am bashing the GT? No, it merely means that I don't find it "easthetically pleasing" as NKB put it; and, I do not like Fords especially Ford sport cars. Do not, however, think you can judge and insult me. You haven't a clue how reliable this GT 40 will be so spare me the history lesson as well as your attitude.
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