how they voted on the bailout...

People that say they prefer a depression have never led their family to a tent city. Listened to their children cry themselves to sleep from hunger night after night. Sold family heirlooms for pennies on the dollar. Lined up for a construction job praying someone would die so they might get a 1 in 100 chance for that job. Begged for scraps of food. Lived with no hope.
+1

we're seeing a lot of tough talk from folks who have gotten used to living off borrowed / other people's money, including their parent's, and don't have a clue what it's like to be hungry and / or homeless... anybody that's actually been close to or *over* that cliff and have worked / saved hard over their entire lives to avoid doing it again understand the importance of resolving this situation without putting the country completely on the canvas.

your "principles" won't carry you far if your family starves.
 
Last edited:
bush just fucked the whole country over from the beginning. my $0.02

That statement makes you look like a jacka$$.

The reason for the position that we are in now is due to a much larger and misunderstood problem. We all should have seen this coming a few years ago when mortgage lenders were giving loans of 110% of the loan to value on a home that was overpriced to begin with. I saw this first hand when scumbags like my ex-wife told home buyers to offer more than the listing price if the person wanted the house. Then she had the buyer work with her real estate company's in-house mortgage officer to get the deal done. She and many others made fast money and put people at risk of losing everything. If there was such a thing as "malpractice" insurance for realtors and a risk that they would be somewhat responsible for a homeowner going into foreclosure, I'm sure a lot of those deals would not have been "pushed" through. That being said, the writing was on the wall and we all ignored it.

The next warning signal was when the price of oil and gas increased so rapidly. People earning minimum wage were working to put gas in their car just so they could get to work to put more gas in their car. Oil and gas is one of the few commodities that everyone depends on. Once again, the writing was on the wall but we all ignored it and instead bought iPhones and LCD tv's.

So to say Bush "fvcked" the country just shows that you are one of many uninformed people who are adding to the mutiny that is going on. I hope you enjoy your HDTV when you can't watch it because you can't afford to pay for the 1,000 channels of sat tv.
 
Last edited:
I hope you enjoy your HDTV when you can't watch it because you can't afford to pay for the 1,000 channels of sat tv.

If the thing is big enough it can be used as a source of heat. So he could turn the t-stat down and reduce to just basic cable. :wink::smile:
 
We all should have seen this coming a few years ago when mortgage lenders were giving loans of 110% of the loan to value on a home that was overpriced to begin with.

From what I heard on the news here in Europe, there are 5 million mortgages in the US that are behind on their payments or have defaulted. That's one bad mortgage for every 61 citizens. If the average outstanding mortgage amount is $140,000, then everyone has to chip in $2300 to pay for that bum's mortgage, adding up to $700 billion across the country.

Some defaulting is normal, but 1 bad mortgage for every 61 people? I think the main blame lies with loan officers who couldn't say "no".
 
This current crisis has NOTHING to do with Wall Street greed.

Really? You don't think so?

I don't believe it is Bush's fault, although he didn't do much to solve the problem either, but I am pretty sure Wall Street investment banks and hedge funds had a lot to do with it.

Subprime lendees-->mortgage companies-->wall street bankers.
 
That statement makes you look like a jacka$$.

The reason for the position that we are in now is due to a much larger and misunderstood problem. We all should have seen this coming a few years ago when mortgage lenders were giving loans of 110% of the loan to value on a home that was overpriced to begin with. I saw this first hand when scumbags like my ex-wife told home buyers to offer more than the listing price if the person wanted the house. Then she had the buyer work with her real estate company's in-house mortgage officer to get the deal done. She and many others made fast money and put people at risk of losing everything. If there was such a thing as "malpractice" insurance for realtors and a risk that they would be somewhat responsible for a homeowner going into foreclosure, I'm sure a lot of those deals would not have been "pushed" through. That being said, the writing was on the wall and we all ignored it.

The next warning signal was when the price of oil and gas increased so rapidly. People earning minimum wage were working to put gas in their car just so they could get to work to put more gas in their car. Oil and gas is one of the few commodities that everyone depends on. Once again, the writing was on the wall but we all ignored it and instead bought iPhones and LCD tv's.

So to say Bush "fvcked" the country just shows that you are one of many uninformed people who are adding to the mutiny that is going on. I hope you enjoy your HDTV when you can't watch it because you can't afford to pay for the 1,000 channels of sat tv.

Accuracy rating: High to Very High

I think anyone who blames a single person for this current situation should be sent to a re-education camp. Doc and I will be the administrators for a small fee (per individual). It'll be a lot better deal for the government then anything else on the table.
 
Yeah, you are right. Its ALL his fault :rolleyes:

This current crisis has NOTHING to do with Wall Street greed.

Or nothing to do with the consumers who took loans they KNEW they couldn't afford......mortgages/helocs/credit cards.

Its funny....people overextend themselves...then blame everyone else.

The President has *little* or *nothing* to do with the state of the economy.

*EDIT*
And for those of you against Paulson's plan....I'd rather pay more in taxes than watch the value of my portfolio and retirement accounts plunge any more. Why not subsidize everyone else's mistakes and irresponsibility? The hardworking have been doing it for decades in this country.
 
Last edited:
We should do SOMETHING, but we shouldn't do this bailout plan.

The real issue here is CONFIDENCE in the actual system.

We could fix this problem without spending a dime. Because throwing money at this situation doesn't fix the CAUSE of the problem. Bernake dumped 630 BILLION dollars (just shy of the 700B mark propsed) yesterday in liquidity and we still dropped 700 points and the credit markets were still frozen. Why? BECAUSE THE PROBLEM ISN'T FIXED WITH MORE MONEY.

Rick Santelli nailed it a couple mornings ago. This is a man who is a trader on the floor of the exchange that provides primary liquidity to some of our most important capital markets in Chicago.

He said, and I quote, that "confidence has been shattered because the rules of the game keep changing."

That is exactly correct.

Karl Denningers proposed solution is as follows:

  • 1. Force all off-balance sheet "assets" back onto the balance sheet, and force the valuation models and identification of individual assets out of Level 3 and into 10Qs and 10Ks. Do it now.
  • 2. Force all OTC derivatives onto a regulated exchange similar to that used by listed options in the equity markets. This permanently defuses the derivatives time bomb. Give market participants 90 days; any that are not listed in 90 days are declared void; let the participants sue each other if they can't prove capital adequacy.
  • 3. Force leverage by all institutions to no more than 12:1. The SEC intentionally dropped broker/dealer leverage limits in 2004; prior to that date 12:1 was the limit. Every firm that has failed had double or more the leverage of that former 12:1 limit. Enact this with a six month time limit and require 1/6th of the excess taken down monthly.

That is one of the only plans i've seen that fixes the ROOT of the problems and can prevent them in the future. And guess what? It doesn't cost 700B, or 70 Million. Its free.

You should be on the phones to your reps and asking them why they aren't trying to put THAT kind of solution through congress? I know I have.
 
Last edited:
Accuracy rating: High to Very High

I think anyone who blames a single person for this current situation should be sent to a re-education camp. Doc and I will be the administrators for a small fee (per individual). It'll be a lot better deal for the government then anything else on the table.

Thank you for the confidence, but I have to politely decline the offer. I think Steveny woul be a good shoein for me. :biggrin:
 
Thank you for the confidence, but I have to politely decline the offer. I think Steveny woul be a good shoein for me. :biggrin:

They didn't return my calls anyways. Busy doing something unimportant I'm sure.
 
Nancy P is the biggest bitch, the dumbest human being ever get to be in that position, third in line to be the president of US. For the first time, I agreed with abortion law, she should have been aborted as a fetus.

She just couldn't help her self by make that jack-none sense speech before voting.

Whether it trigger the anger to prevent the the bill to be passed, they let a $700 Billion investment (not bail out) to snowballed further with $1.2 Trillion lost in the market.

Those who are blaming the Republicans really needs to have a reality check. The democrats along can have the bill passed.

I hope people vote out all these "do not congress" regardless they are R or D.

When I heard on TV Dennis Kucinich yelling "I was not elected as board member of those companies," I have news for him, how about do your fucking job by get the economy back on track, than go after those board members?
 
Last edited:
vancehu,

Pelosi is everything you say, with the exception of dumb.

She got exactly what she wanted. A cheap shot at Bush and at McCain.

I don't believe she cares one bit about anything except getting Obama elected.

-J
 
vancehu,

Pelosi is everything you say, with the exception of dumb.

She got exactly what she wanted. A cheap shot at Bush and at McCain.

I don't believe she cares one bit about anything except getting Obama elected.

-J

i felt her pre-vote speech was in poor taste and very poorly timed - surely as a leader she could have done much better than she did. as for your last comment, i'm not so sure she actually cares much about electing obama.
 
On the subject of bailouts, I hope they don't bail out any of the speculators who thought they could make a quick buck by buying houses that they couldn't afford and flipping them for profit a short time later. Too bad - I have no sympathy for these people. You took a chance and lost - now deal with it. Don't expect taxpayers to bail you out.

For the people who bought houses that they couldn't afford: again, too bad, but maybe something can be done to keep you there if it's your primary residence. I swear - dont they teach math anymore in school? It's probably the biggest purchase of your life and you dont read the fine print.
 
This just in... go figure...

WSJ(10/1) US Auto Makers Seek Bailout For Bad Car Loans
2

By Aparajita Saha-Bubna

(From THE WALL STREET JOURNAL)
As Congress revises a bailout plan for Wall Street, U.S. auto companies hope the new package will stem a growing credit crisis
that threatens to further crimp their industry.
The original $700 billion Wall Street deal, which was rejected by the House on Monday, included a substantial bailout for
auto lenders. These companies hold a stable of bad auto loans that could shrink in value and hurt both the lenders and the vehicle
makers. This bailout would have been separate from the $25 billion in low-cost loans the Big Three Detroit auto makers hope to
get from Congress as early as next year.
Because of constrained capital, GMAC LLC, partially owned by General Motors Corp.; Ford Motor Credit; and Chrysler
Financial, which finances Chrysler LLC's vehicles, have tightened lending standards in recent months. The tightening happened
just as the lenders decided to pull out of the risky practice of leasing vehicles, which had long represented about 20% of new-vehicle
financing arrangements. The combination of tougher-to-get loans and absence of leasing stung auto makers during the summer selling
season.
A Washington bailout of bad car loans could loosen the flow of financing for potential car buyers and spark demand for new cars
and trucks. It likely would free up funds that could be invested in securities backed by auto loans, bringing down borrowing costs for
auto lenders.
In August, tight credit caused General Motors to lose sales of roughly 10,000 to 12,000 vehicles, the car maker said. When
extrapolated across the entire U.S. industry, that was the equivalent of 40,000 lost sales, or about $1 billion in revenue.
The growing credit crunch in the auto industry is expected to have wreaked havoc on September vehicle sales, which will be
reported Wednesday. Research firm J.D. Power & Associates expects a 26% volume decline compared with the same month in
2007.
"There are still quite a few deals getting done, but they require a lot more work and a lot more back-and-forth between the bank
and the dealer," said Earl Hesterberg, chief executive of Houston-based dealer chain Group 1 Automotive Inc. "It's become
significantly more difficult, particularly in the last month."
John Bergstrom, owner of the Bergstrom Automotive Group dealership chain in Wisconsin, said the buyers having the most
trouble are those who are trading in a car they have owned for just a few years. Because they don't have much equity in their vehicle,
or may even owe more on the loan than the car is worth, banks increasingly are requiring these buyers to produce hefty down
payments.
"The challenge is affordability," Mr. Bergstrom said. "People's bills are getting higher, and then they're squeezed on gasoline
and they're squeezed on milk and so forth. When they look at a car, they say they can't really afford them."
The tightening also has hit dealers as the car makers' finance arms raise the cost of the "floor plan" credit they offer dealers to buy
cars for their inventory. Dealers typically repay lenders for these loans as each vehicle is sold.
Existing bonds made up of floor-plan loans of the three auto-finance arms total $25.8 billion, according to data provider
ABSNet. Ford Motor Credit and GMAC lead with $12.7 billion and $10.6 billion, respectively. Both companies have had
unprecedented trouble attracting investors in floor-plan assets in recent months, people familiar with the matter have said.
That has prompted the finance companies to get tougher on dealers with weak finances, raising their rates and fees for some.
This makes it costlier for dealers to buy cars, eroding their margins. In addition, dealer inventories are getting leaner, meaning
potential car buyers have fewer options to choose from.
And since GMAC and Chrysler Financial are both controlled by private-equity group Cerberus Capital Management LP, each is
now being run to maximize profits, not auto sales. Last week, one of GM's largest Chevrolet dealers, Bill Heard Enterprises,
closed all 14 of its dealerships after GMAC canceled the dealer's credit line.
---
John D. Stoll and Sharon Terlep contributed to this article.
Click here to go to Dow Jones NewsPlus, a web front page of today's most important business and market news, analysis
and commentary: http:// http://www.djnewsplus.com/al?rnd=ssO...QhEhuI6g==. You can use this link on the day this
article is published and the following day.


(END) Dow Jones Newswires

But thats the danger with bailouts. Once you set the precedent everybody is gonna stand in line with their hands out asking "Please sir, can I have some more?"
 
A home is a necessity, not a car. Screw the car companies, "spark demand for new cars and trucks"? What? So the cycle can start all over again?

I'm biased though, I'd buy import before domestic and the only domestic vehicles I realistically want and can afford are used full size turbo diesel trucks anyhow.

Speech prior to the Bailout Fail
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VMLo7i38D58&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VMLo7i38D58&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
 
Last edited:
A home is not a necessity.

Since when did "Apartment" become such a nasty word.

We wouldn't be in this mess if, instead of offering 100% loans to people who couldn't afford them, we pointed people to apartments.

Hell, considering the cost of the bailout, we would have been better off if Freddie and Fannie paid the first year's rent for all those people who were given risky loans.
 
Last edited:
A home is not a necessity.

Since when did "Apartment" become such a nasty word.

We wouldn't be in this mess if, instead of offering 100% loans to people who couldn't afford them, we pointed people to apartments.

Hell, considering the cost of the bailout, we would have been better off if Freddie and Fannie paid the first year's rent for all those people who were given risky loans.

Since when did living with your "parents" become such a nasty phrase?

Anyhow, it's not the point I was totally intending to make but I notice it's the only thing you got out of it. Fact of the matter is, IT IS DONE. THE BILL PASSED. Time to move on since debating about here won't change the bill any. But maybe a debate over the new one brewing up might..........
 
Last edited:
Since when did living with your "parents" become such a nasty phrase?

Anyhow, it's not the point I was totally intending to make but I notice it's the only thing you got out of it. Fact of the matter is, IT IS DONE. THE BILL PASSED. Time to move on since debating about here won't change the bill any. But maybe a debate over the new one brewing up might..........


Ha!

Living with your parents has always been a nasty phrase. The bill isn't done. It still has to go to Congress, right? But, yeah, I took the opportunity to point out that owning a home isn't a necessity.

Too bad those at ACORN, FHA, FANNIE, FREDDIE, Congressional Black Caucus didn't take this more to heart.

I'm sure Obama and his good close friends and advisors, Frank "60 million dollar man" Raines and Jim Johnson will make the right choices moving forward.
 
Back
Top