How many of you track addicts have/have not fitted a stronger oil pump?

[sparky]

I'm wondering what the risk is of using a stock NSX oil pump on track. I'm aware that some OEM oil pumps have failed, but perhaps this is an insignificant minority of tracked engines.

So ... how many of you trackers have or have not fitted a stronger (billet) oil pump ?

 

[nsxtasy]

I had over 13,000 actual track miles using the original stock oil pump.

I should add, I never drove a full oval course, only mostly road courses and a few "rovals" (courses combining a portion of an oval with an infield course). I would think that extended time on a full oval would incur a greater risk of oil starvation.

 

[BATMANs]

Can anyone give me concrete proof that tracking OEM oil pumps is a bad idea for tracking?

What exactly causes them to fail?

massive force?

perhaps it's beyond the oil pump... perhaps the pump was fine until the person took a fast G turn and had oil starvation. If that is the case then the oil pump isn't the problem and the least of the worries.

 

[docjohn]

afaik the billet upgrade gives some protection from a money shift.I have been on track with students who in the heat of sensory overload have shifted into a lower gear when an upshift was called for.That said i had many track miles on the oem unit without failure,and only in the last two years put in the billet unit because I was having some other work done.

 

[g3driver]

OEM oil pump here. I think that the failures you hear are people revving the engine over red line (miss shift). The question is how many people run an accusump?

 

[sparky]

... perhaps the pump was fine until ... a fast G turn and ... oil starvation. If that is the case then the oil pump isn't the problem ...

good point. Pictures of failed oil pumps often include suggestions the pump failed. But which came first, oil starvation or oil pump failure ?

an Accusump may help if it's the former

Over-revving is always a concern, not just for the puimp.

Seems to me that provided oil starvation and over-revving are avoided, an OEM pump is highly unlikely to fail

 

[nsxtasy]

afaik the billet upgrade gives some protection from a money shift.

Making sure you shift into the proper gear gives even greater protection from a money shift.

 

[docjohn]

Making sure you shift into the proper gear gives even greater protection from a money shift.

lol very true..but we are such unpredictable creatures....

 

[R13]

I won't say I've read every thread on oil pump gear/starvation failure on Prime....but I may have gotten close.

Pump Gear Failure: Usually a money shift, but can happen with extended running at max RPM. It seems it basically hits a harmonic at some point, and shatters. Billet gear reduces this likelihood.

Starvation: This is really a distinctly separate problem, although it certainly could lead to pump failure, but probably not before something else has already gone horribly wrong....it's also a little muddier of an issue.

Things that can cause it:

• Running high downforce/R-comp tires + any long right-hand turn (the exact threshold is subject to debate)
• Running clockwise on a banked oval, even without sticky tires/downforce (counterclockwise poses no threat save for the prolonged high-rpm...see oil gear)
• perfect storm of right-hand sweeper/vtec engagement/some other factor (low oil level, overly hot/thin oil, etc)

That said, I run skinny-ish street tires on the track, I have a (relatively new) stock oil pump gear, and a baffled pan (no accusump). Knocking on wood, I haven't had any symptoms of problems so far.

 

[integrals]

27,000 hard tracked miles in AZ

Running a 3qt accusump. Never a single blip in oil pressure on the datalog.

 

[L_RAO]

Speaking of oil pumps, does anyone have the OEM Honda part # for the oil pump gear?

I can't seem to find it on oemacuraparts.com - the only thing I can find is the oil pump housing.

Thanks.

 

[sparky]

I don't think Honda sell the gears separate from the pump assembly (part no 15100-PR7-A01 for a 91-94). I suspect this may be because they have machined surfaces of low tolerance, and just replacing the gear is not advisable / practical due to wear in the housing.

SoS offer billet oil pump gearsets in two flavours both aimed at ensuring the gearset is matched to housing these include a "modified relief spring that increases oil pressure by approximately 10 psi"

- - - Updated - - -

27,000 hard tracked miles in AZ
Running a 3qt accusump. Never a single blip in oil pressure on the datalog.

interesting, what sort of tracks have you run on, do any include clockwise corners especially RH sweepers as described by R13 ?

 

[nsxtasy]

interesting, what sort of tracks have you run on, do any include clockwise corners especially RH sweepers as described by R13 ?

I've run on 34 different tracks, all with extended running in the lowest gear (highest RPM) possible, shifts at redline. Most of the courses are clockwise so there are plenty of right-hand sweepers and right-hand carousels.

 

[asylum]

I run slicks with a baffled oil pan and had no problems. But that is not saying I will never have some. I do not have an accusump as I do not like the idea of having hot oil lines around the motor. But this can save your motor if oil starvation occurs. Follow these 4 rules :
- do not missshift (or try...)
- oil level always at the top
- no ovals or very long right turns in vtec
- baffle your pan

 

[illwillem]

I blew my oil gear at the track. It was certainly dude to an over-rev. You can see on the center outer gear some heat bluing marks and a scored section where it ground to a halt before exploded. When it gave-way it took both inner and outer gears and broke the housing itself. Luckily I had a 3 qt accusump and only got away with having to do some crank bearing replacement. also lucky it didn't gouge or score the crank itself.



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[titaniumdave]

I think an Accusump is a more effective upgrade than oil pump gears, personally I would not track an NSX on R-comp tires without a 3 quart Accusump. The other advantage of an Accusump is it works as a pre-oiler before each start up which prevent most bearing wear.

Cost of a simple Accusump kit is less than billet oil pump gears, especially when you factor labor in. The Accusump can be hidden in the right fender, plumbed with a single line into the top of the stock oil filter bracket, electricity can be jumpered off your cruise control switch or a dedicated switch can be installed.

 

[sparky]

27,000 hard tracked miles in AZ
Running a 3qt accusump. Never a single blip in oil pressure on the datalog.

Curious as to how to continuously log oil pressure? I guess you have a oil pressure transducer of some sort, and that feeds an EMS with logging abilities ?

Edit: I've since found the 100 PSIg sensors by AEM which pretty much answers my own question !

I notice AEM also provide these sensors in a stainless steel version but they cost a lot more. Is there any concerns with the cheaper brass version in an NSX?