How does the NSX compare to the 911?

[stuntman]

My main concerns with the 911 is the staggering repair costs, esp the turbos, which seem to place greater stress on the engine/transmission. Dedicated Porsche shops are a necessity... something goes wrong and boom, you're out $7-10k EASILY. A few over revs and the engine gets labeled by Porsche as "probable to eminent destruction." A friend of mine has a 2007 997tt and he had to rebuild his engine due to a cracked rod; cost him $30k and multiple trips to the shop. My 911 research suggests to budget $2-3k/year for maintenance plus be prepared to fork over the occasional $5-6k repair bill. Not to say all 911s will have said repair costs, but it seems common enough to warrant 3rd party warranty when possible..

The 911 turbo Mezger engine (up to 09) is extremely stout and arguably one of the best production engines Porsche ever made, developed from the GT1 racacar. I'm not sure what happened or how your friend cracked a rod but those motors can take ALOT of power reliably. I wouldn't be as hesitant as you seem to be, especially if you work on your own car. Of course you'll get the P-car tax by blindly walking into a Porsche dealership for service.

 

[nis350]

How is the reliability of the PDK? Is the PDK the same between 997.2 and 991?

I think the 991 S or 4S is good looking cars.

997.2. Classic styling cues and with PDK/Sports Chrono pkg. makes it the perfect modern sports car. All modern features and tons of aftermarket support. Same cozy feel in the cabin. In stock form will be a much faster car than the any stock NA2 NSX.

 

[EIFFEL]

PDK has been very reliable like the tiptronic transmission. The PDK between the 997.2 and 991 is differ in software programming.

 

[nis350]

That's good to know. Had an e46 M3 with SMG. It was quite problematic.

Would you recommend the PDK over the manual trans? Thx.

PDK has been very reliable like the tiptronic transmission. The PDK between the 997.2 and 991 is differ in software programming.

 

[synth19]

For the 997, manual all day! I'm sure it would be a major regret knowing I could have purchased a car with a manual gear box option.

 

[BATMANs]

.....The only thing I really don't like about the X is the way the doors are designed, built and function. The 911 had a very solid "bank vault" feel when you closed them. Part of that is because they're shorter doors and the windows are framed. Just a great feel and sound when they were opened or closed. The X doors feel like a clapped-out Camaro by comparison. However I doubt that the newer 911s have that same feel......

I've solved that NSX "cheaper" door closing experience when the door was Dynamat equipped. I've closed a few 911 doors and still think that the pre aluminum skin doors of the Benz sound more like a vault.

- - - Updated - - -

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/5354660266.html

 

[docboy]

I've solved that NSX "cheaper" door closing experience when the door was Dynamat equipped. I've closed a few 911 doors and still think that the pre aluminum skin doors of the Benz sound more like a vault.

- - - Updated - - -

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/5354660266.html

Are you in the PNW? I saw your CL link. I actually checked out that car a few days ago. Drove well, good condition, and well maintained but IMHO $15k overpriced.

 

[posterchild2]

The IMS "Intermediate shaft" issue you mentioned can affect almost any late 1990's and early 2000s Porsches; but not the turbo...it only affect the NA cars, the 996TT used a different engine design that was free from IMS faults, and really a bullet-proof motor.

 

[BATMANs]

Are you in the PNW? I saw your CL link. I actually checked out that car a few days ago. Drove well, good condition, and well maintained but IMHO $15k overpriced.

Nope. I'm in SF 49ers turf.......

 

[docboy]

The IMS "Intermediate shaft" issue you mentioned can affect almost any late 1990's and early 2000s Porsches; but not the turbo...it only affect the NA cars, the 996TT used a different engine design that was free from IMS faults, and really a bullet-proof motor.

True the IMS bearing issue is cause of catastrophic engine failures for 996/997.1 non turbo and non GT2/GT3, and early Boxter/Caymans.... however dig a little deeper and one finds the 996tt and 997.1tt Mezger engines still uses the IMS shaft. There have been reports of the shaft at idle with a loud tapping noise. I seriously considered a 2003 996tt x50 but it had a loud engine tapping noise. Talking to a local p-car mechanic he advised me not to buy this car with fear of it needing a $15-20k engine rebuild in fear of it being a ticking time bomb.

A few other 996tt/997tt I scoped out on Rennlist/6speed had similar issues. Long term I suspect engines that develop this loud tick/tapping suspect may need a engine rebuild.

997.1 Mezger engines are also prone to the dreaded camshaft issue, which can result in a rebuild as well.

Plus these engines are apparently so sensitive to over revs, by running a DME report Porsche labels engines who has spent revolutions at various rpms as "prone to" or "likelihood" of engine failure.

So apparently these Mezger engines are not so indestructible at all

 

[posterchild2]

True the IMS bearing issue is cause of catastrophic engine failures for 996/997.1 non turbo and non GT2/GT3, and early Boxter/Caymans.... however dig a little deeper and one finds the 996tt and 997.1tt Mezger engines still uses the IMS shaft. There have been reports of the shaft at idle with a loud tapping noise. I seriously considered a 2003 996tt x50 but it had a loud engine tapping noise. Talking to a local p-car mechanic he advised me not to buy this car with fear of it needing a $15-20k engine rebuild in fear of it being a ticking time bomb.

A few other 996tt/997tt I scoped out on Rennlist/6speed had similar issues. Long term I suspect engines that develop this loud tick/tapping suspect may need a engine rebuild.

997.1 Mezger engines are also prone to the dreaded camshaft issue, which can result in a rebuild as well.

Plus these engines are apparently so sensitive to over revs, by running a DME report Porsche labels engines who has spent revolutions at various rpms as "prone to" or "likelihood" of engine failure.

So apparently these Mezger engines are not so indestructible at all

Well that blows! So not to get too way off subject, what years would you recommend getting if one were to choose to go the 911 route. I had no idea the 996 and 997TT used the IMS shaft as well.

 

[docboy]

Well that blows! So not to get too way off subject, what years would you recommend getting if one were to choose to go the 911 route. I had no idea the 996 and 997TT used the IMS shaft as well.

The $1M question. I was in the 911 hunt for about 1.5 yrs, finally gave up. Price of car is not the issue. Problem is the gamble if something goes wrong, you have to be willing to face the Porsche tax and unexpected $5-10k "service." The adage of "Pay to play" truly holds up in the Porsche world. Browse the 6speedonline site. You'll notice many cars with short ownership time spans; owning it for months then selling is common, which I suspect is due to maintenance costs. Then again, some owners claim minimal maintenance aside from oil change/regular service intervals. Luck of the draw I guess...

I was told to budget $2-3k/yr for maintenance, which is wise. A couple of friends of mine had a Cayman and a 997. Owned it less than 1 yr before selling it. Reason? Maintenance costs. Another friend freaked out when he had to shell out $2,500 for new brakes on his Cayenne base; this guy however still has his Cayenne at the whim of his wife.

Having said that, if I were to go the 911 route, I would get a 997.2 or 991 (MY 2009+). They seem to be the most reliable of the bunch; 997.2/991 DI motors have fewer moving parts. Then again, they are still too new to gauge any long term defects. If you have the stomach for it, go for a 911! They are true driving machines, no doubt about it.

FWIW I test drove a 2003 NSX 6MT w/Comptech exhaust a few days ago; my first test drive in a NSX which confirmed my new hunt for a NSX. Great visceral feeling, a true sports car. IMHO the driving experience between this NSX and a 911 is comparable, except the NSX has Honda Japanese engineering and reliability at heart. The 911tt has more torque/power and rear seats. You just need to be willing to pay to play.

 

[BATMANs]

NSX 3.0 engines heads are purported to be more optimized for FI applications and the 3.0 comes with steel sleeves for the cylinder walls, which IMO is stronger and better for FI applications.

Just something to think about.

 

[docboy]

NSX 3.0 engines heads are purported to be more optimized for FI applications and the 3.0 comes with steel sleeves for the cylinder walls, which IMO is stronger and better for FI applications.

Just something to think about.

Is the NSX 3.0 engine more "robust" than the 3.2? Do you know how the cylinder walls for the 3.2 differ than the 3.0?

 

[jwmelvin]

Is the NSX 3.0 engine more "robust" than the 3.2? Do you know how the cylinder walls for the 3.2 differ than the 3.0?

The 3.2 cylinders are lined with FRM rather than iron and therefore cannot be bored out. I don't think they are weaker, just not compatible with aftermarket pistons, so more difficult to build for power because you need to sleeve the cylinders. The FRM is a very hard material and therefore good as a cylinder liner, with the OEM pistons and rings. But the 3.0 could be considered more robust because the cylinder walls are thicker (same block as 3.2).

 

[RYU]

Is the NSX 3.0 engine more "robust" than the 3.2? Do you know how the cylinder walls for the 3.2 differ than the 3.0?

Not sure if I mentioned this here or on another thread but for some odd reason there are a few instances of 3.2L's here locally that like to lift heads under boost. The number of occurrences is statistically insignificant but if you ask our local NSX mechanics you will find this to be a common sentiment.

 

[jasonturbo]

I contemplated posting in this thread numerous times... finally caved.

I sold my 997.1 GT3 in May, I am currently in the market for another 997 GT3 RS or a Base GT3 w/ unique color and features. I have many friends with 911's, they have all been virtually bulletproof over the years.

The only expensive repair/failure I've seen was on a 996 C4s, D-chunk cylinder failure - somewhat common issue, supposedly from high engine loads with poor oil/coolant circulation, so lugging the motor (Imagine going up a hill at low RPM WOT and the engine can barely maintain the revs).

Any of the higher power cars (GT3 or TT) really eat tires, 1-2 season max, you will get like 10K out of a set of PSS at most. Brake rotors are expensive, if you have PCCB's new rotors are a 20K hit, you can alternatively have them rebuilt in Europe for around 6K in total IIRC.

Honestly though they are fairly cheap to own, drive the car as intended and it will last a long time. Also worth noting with the Mezger is the need to pin coolant lines if you track your car - something that costs between 3-6K depending on the shop and how they do it (pin vs weld).

Apples to Oranges though, two very different animals. Personally I probably prefer the GT3 to the NSX, but I would take the NSX over any other 911 variant, the Turbo IMO feels heavy, soft, and is no bueno for tracking + throttle is overly sensitive for small tight courses as any strong input really changes the behaviour of the car mid-turn.

I'm in a tough position because I currently have three cars and I might really have to look at consolidating down to 1-2, meaning I would likely end up selling the NSX after finding the right GT3... but the NSX serves another wonderful purposed, it's more of a GT car, has targa top, and is mad JDM yo.

Don't even worry about valuations, the next economic collapse will probably drag the prices of 911's and NSX's down a fair bit.

 

[oldnews]

The 3.2 cylinders are lined with FRM rather than iron and therefore cannot be bored out. I don't think they are weaker, just not compatible with aftermarket pistons, so more difficult to build for power because you need to sleeve the cylinders. The FRM is a very hard material and therefore good as a cylinder liner, with the OEM pistons and rings. But the 3.0 could be considered more robust because the cylinder walls are thicker (same block as 3.2).

That's not right. It means the sleeves cannot be removed, must be bored out to replace/build.

 

[jwmelvin]

That's not right. It means the sleeves cannot be removed, must be bored out to replace/build.

I'd like to better understand your distinction. What's not right? (All of what I said?) Can some sleeves be removed without boring them out? Can the 3.0 sleeves?

 

[fastaussie]

Both cars are easy to live with. At the end of the day it comes down to which car you prefer to see in your garage. Take my advice for the $0.00 it's worth, because I now have a Lotus Esprit which has been just as reliable as my NSX and TT were.

very, very cool car...

p.s. i thought about getting one myself

 

[Aluminsx]

This would be my 3rd car. I have a TL 6MT that I am thinking of trading in for a SUV like a 4Runner.

I'm looking for something fun, fast, style, and looks nice, something I can keep for a long time without worrying about it breaking down or being stuck with a $7k repair bill.

Your TL is a rare bird. Before you decide to trade it in and get really beat up by the dealership you should consider selling it privately. I would be interested in taking a peek at it but your 3,000 miles away from me. I've never owned a 911 but I did own a 1988 928S4 MT. I had to set aside a good amount of money every year for the 928. It's one of the more expensive cars to own. NSX, thus far, has been pretty reasonable. Good luck with your search.

 

[JizJizJiz]

Recent NSX owner (98), but long time 911 owner (ex-01 996TT, ex-03 996 C4S, ex-04 996TT, ex-07 997S, 08 997.1TT) and have had several F cars in the past (ex-10 458, ex-08 599, and many years ago, ex-98 355).

They're very different cars (especially if you're comparing a Turbo vs. a 360 or NSX. The NSX feels the most "athletic" out of the bunch - not the fastest, but the quickest on its feet. The Turbo is almost a hybrid between a sports car and a grand tourer - lots of room, demonically fast, but it does feel like it has heavier footing with the AWD. The F cars are all very different - they feel hugely special to drive and the auditory feedback is superb, but the recent ones I've had were flappy paddle transmissions and do not feel as engaging as driving the NSX.

I use the 997.1TT as a daily driver, I can't see daily driving the NSX; it's just not comfortable or usable enough. Plus, as already mentioned, the electronics are very dated. I did use the 599 as a daily driver for a little bit as well, but my daily drive mostly means going to the grocery store and golf course.

FWIW, while I don't have first-hand experience with NSX maintenance, I can see through the receipts for my car it is about a $1.5k a year car to maintain, speaking strictly from mechanical/powertrain bits and not wearables (brakes, tires, etc. which are largely a factor of how much the car is used; I'm assuming parts are about the same price as Porsche and about half the cost of similar Ferrari parts). This is on par with the Turbo (my last service was ~$650 for minor service, ~$1.2k for major) and believe it or not, Ferrari V8 (458's annual service was ~$1.5k). The 360 will be significantly more to maintain (think a factor of ~6), as it is the last Ferrari V8 to use belts.

tl;dr - if I were spending my money, and I am daily driving the car, I'd go Turbo, then NSX, and not even consider a 360 (430 is do-able). If not, it's a tougher decision. And the IMS issue is unfound on the Turbo cars.

 

[BATMANs]

Is the NSX 3.0 engine more "robust" than the 3.2? Do you know how the cylinder walls for the 3.2 differ than the 3.0?

Yes I know the difference in the cylinder walls as mentioned below. I don't know of any proper engine rebuild where you don't conduct a bore clean up (removing some material in the process). This makes the 3.2 best suited for those that are not planning on rebuilding the engine.

The only level above a 3.0 OEM steel sleeve is going with a Darton sleeve build.

 

[95nsxtc]

Is the NSX 3.0 engine more "robust" than the 3.2? Do you know how the cylinder walls for the 3.2 differ than the 3.0?

So i read through most of the posts, not all of them so i may have missed this, but im surprised no one really talked about the fact that the NSX is an appreciating vehicle, while the 911 is not (unless going for a gt3 variant). Thats a huge tipping point IMO

but as for my opinion as I have a lot of experience with 911s, nvr owned one, but they bore me compared to the NSX. Yea they may be better at x,y,z but its just not as fun. And then there's the fact that there are a million of them, which leads to the point that driving the NSX is always an experience while the 911 is meh. I also dont care about modern tech that much besides sat radio so im not missing anything there. Yea it doesnt have that much power, and for me it was by far the least amount of power Ive had in a vehicle for a while, but it doesnt matter below 85

absolute perks to me: trans is second to none for everything ive driven
sound with exhaust is awesome +vtec lol
cheap to maintain
one of the absolute best suspension and chassis imo
plenty of aftermarket power options if you need it
appreciation

 

[fastaussie]

So i read through most of the posts, not all of them so i may have missed this, but im surprised no one really talked about the fact that the NSX is an appreciating vehicle, while the 911 is not (unless going for a gt3 variant). Thats a huge tipping point IMO

you missed my post then, #8 :frown:

but as for my opinion as I have a lot of experience with 911s, nvr owned one, but they bore me compared to the NSX. Yea they may be better at x,y,z but its just not as fun. And then there's the fact that there are a million of them, which leads to the point that driving the NSX is always an experience while the 911 is meh. I also dont care about modern tech that much besides sat radio so im not missing anything there. Yea it doesnt have that much power, and for me it was by far the least amount of power Ive had in a vehicle for a while, but it doesnt matter below 85

it sounds as though your "boring" opinion of the Porsche is more based on the fact that they're common and not an NSX. drive a Turbo, it's anything and everything but boring...