Does the car have too much power to be a good track car or is it a perfect match?
How does a NSX turbo track
- Thread starter SENNAF1
- Start date
Thats gonna depend on your horsepower and your whole car setup i.e. suspension, brakes and tuning.
More power is better. No such thing as too much power. More power is faster. Simple.
It will depend on your horsepower level. Most kits out there that produce 350-500whp if tuned properly, are a perfect match for the car. If it's very laggy or has poor tuning, then just like anything else, would be terrible to drive on a track. It does depend on the whole car setup i.e. suspension, brakes and tuning. If you dont have adequate brakes to slow your car down now that it has 2X the power, that could be a bad thing. If you're running on stock suspension and tires, your new setup will overpower your suspension/brakes.
It would be highly recommended to upgrade your brakes, suspension, and wheels/tires before going to a turbo setup, especially if you plan on tracking your car.
Grantite their hasn't been too many turbo NSXs (but their are) that are laggy with (although high #s), would not be usable on a track.
Ex.) High HP supras built for drag racing would be far too laggy and unresponsive for track use. (high HP as in 800whp+) although it has high HP, it would not necessarily make it faster on a track.
This dosn't mean you can't have 800whp and be undriveable/slower on a track, it just means that track drivability/speed depends on turbo sizing, spool, tuning, etc...
Most turbo systems for the NSX out there are sized appropriately and should be fine. However their are people making high #s that wouldn't have a track-practical power band.
It would be highly recommended to upgrade your brakes, suspension, and wheels/tires before going to a turbo setup, especially if you plan on tracking your car.
Grantite their hasn't been too many turbo NSXs (but their are) that are laggy with (although high #s), would not be usable on a track.
Ex.) High HP supras built for drag racing would be far too laggy and unresponsive for track use. (high HP as in 800whp+) although it has high HP, it would not necessarily make it faster on a track.
This dosn't mean you can't have 800whp and be undriveable/slower on a track, it just means that track drivability/speed depends on turbo sizing, spool, tuning, etc...
Most turbo systems for the NSX out there are sized appropriately and should be fine. However their are people making high #s that wouldn't have a track-practical power band.
Last edited:
I remember that the car from LowellHigh (if I remember) came in first in the 2006 Ultimate Street Car Challenge.
His NSX has more than 650 RWHP at that time. In that particular test, his car was also the second in the braking test. His closest competitor in terms of raw HP was a Skyline-GTR with more than 660 RWHP but which also happened to have the worst brakes.
In the lap times test, Danny Young's NSX was a full three seconds faster than his closest competitor, the fully race-setup 350Z and that was on a 1:30 track course.
So, yes, I think more HP is better, if the rest of the car is balanced properly to make that power usable.
Well you dont push the throttle always to the end, so even with 1000 HP you can grab some milliseconds in 5th or 6th gear 
On the road course it's all about power delivery and useable powerband. If you want to have 800whp that's fine, but if you make all your power between 6500 and 8000rpm you're going to have a tough time keeping yourself in the powerband (as well as keeping the tires from smoking).
As everyone else has said (as well as many racing drivers), power is certainly not at the top of the list when it comes to track cars.
As everyone else has said (as well as many racing drivers), power is certainly not at the top of the list when it comes to track cars.
I'd rather have a 350bhp N/A than a 450bhp Turbo.
Well, you must like losing then. Ever been to Road America? You might lose by 10 seconds per lap.
Here are some numbers to consider. If we assume the 350hp car has 300 rwhp and the 450hp car has 400rwhp, then the first on-line simulator that my search returned says that their 1/4 mile et's would be: 12.5 for one and 11.4 for the other.
Any turbo lag is more than made up by a 100hp difference on any reasonable course. Perhaps in short autocross course and a very bad turbo lag situation, it might be closer. But, not on a normal road course and sure as heck not on the street or drag strip.
Let's not get crazy here with NA vs turbo power. Sheesh.
I disagree with this. The more power you have doesn't mean you'll go faster around a track. There is no way that you can just crank up horsepower and do nothing to the cars setup and expect to just blow by everyone in the track. There has to be a fine balance between those 2. I would definitely take a 350hp N/A that has its suspension tuning and whole race setup tuned then a 700 hp twin turbo NSX that has everything else stock. There is just no way the 700hp can be utilized efficiently if you just leave it as is. Sometimes you even have to reduce the horsepower to go faster around a track.
Want to make a bet. slow in, fast out. Anyone who has ever stuck their nose right up behind a GT3 or 911TT knows what happens on the turn exit.
A miata is a great momentum car, and you won't see one lapping a Ford GT with grandpa driving on the track.
FWIW, the Porsche turbo and the GT3's are already tuned STOCK for that kind of power and so is the Ford GT so I don't understand your point in all of this? (By the way the analogy of using the Ford GT and the Miata doesn't make sense since this is a topic about a NSX turbo being on a track which can be up to par with a Ford GT) Have you even driven in a poorly setup NSX before? it is scary to say the least. And with 700 hp (just as an example) you can easily spin the rear wheels without proper setup and that is why you don't see that Black Factor X NSX on the Las Vegas drag strip going on twisty tracks. Factor X specified already that they used a different car for their American Touge challenge because their drag car is just a drag car and cannot perform on a winding track. My point being is that there has to be a balance between horsepower and control. If you think horsepower is all that why don't you see more 1000 hp formula F1 cars around?
I think you're missing the point...same set up car...more horsepower is better, end of story...now if you compare some rediculous scenario of 300hp nsx with 700hp nsx turbo (both properly set up) I could see a few tracks being to difficult to modulate the throttle...but in the end if you have a fair match up...with only horsepower as a discriminator...it's going to win. Now my real opinion is that the ammount of money it takes to get those numbers would be better spent on seat time...cause the driver makes so much more difference than nominal horsepower levels. To answer your question of why you don't see 1000hp F1 cars...it's simple they were going too fast...therefore too dangerous and the rules simply don't allow it anymore. They also can't run true slicks and many many other limitations which would make them considerable faster (more expensive) if allowed.
I think you missed the point. We were NOT specifying same set up car. I was specifying one car with only horsepower as its main factor vs another car with properly tuned suspension and less horsepower. The main thing is the horsepower isn't the thing that determines the winner. If a stock Bugatti Veyron with 1001 hp was on a track against a JGTC NSX with 700hp, the JGTC NSX will win every time PERIOD. Why? because the JGTC NSX was tuned for the track set up.
Ok if you gave me a stock Civic with 500hp I guarantee I could lap faster than my NSX with the Comptech Pro suspension. Brake hard, slow throw the turn and then zip to the next turn, brake hard, easy through the turn and so on. And down the straight I could make up 5 seconds easy.
:biggrin:
You are missing something else besides just raw HP numbers, a 996/997/GT3 or a 996/997/911TT can put the power down better on corner exit because it has a RR configuration, ever wonder why a 997CarreraS can match the 0-60 times of a C6 that has better HP and torque numbers?
LOL... Try that at a track like Infineon, your NSX with the Comptech Pro suspension would eat that stock Civic with 500hp for lunch any day of the week
(you would understand if you have ever seen a video or driven Infineon).MAYBE if your civic was totally stripped out, had a fully tuned track suspension, and was running huge slicks it could outrun your nsx. Like 2slow mentioned, you have to be able to put that power down to use it effectively. I seriously doubt any fwd car could put 500hp down around a track.
1. Factor X's Black NSX was a twin turbo setup. Their silver car with a single turbo did a 10.4 at 140mph at 500whp+. They also time attack that car winning 3 times in the Modified RWD class.
2. you don't see 1000hp F1 cars anymore (well they were still in the high 900s a few years ago) because they were going to fast (as others have said). Which is why they poorly attempted to slow the cars in the corners with grooved tires, and why they banned forced induction, and why they keep making the motors smaller and smaller. V12-V10-V8, 4L-3L-whatever they are now...
You are getting off the point. If I take two equal cars and add power to one of them, then I'm now faster.
Also, I'm not comparing to everyone at the track that day, just to the similar car (the slow one with less power.)
Whenever you find this situation, two equal cars, with one having less power, again, you take the less power one... it will be the one no one wants to drive.
The concept of some high power cars being hard(er) to drive is real and important to understand. But, don't get carried away with an emotional connection to the idea.
If we had two 350hp NSXes, one uses turbo to get there and one uses NA power to get there, probably the NA power one would be easier to drive. We'd have to compare torque curves and driveability to determine the better car.
But, if we have stock power versus 350 turbo power, give me the extra 60hp and it won't be close.
^ what if you have a 1,400hp tuned like a drag-car that's usable powerband is 6-8k rpm
vs.
a car with 500hp and a usable powerband from 4-8k rpm.
? :tongue:
vs.
a car with 500hp and a usable powerband from 4-8k rpm.
? :tongue:
Off the subject a bit, but....
Colin Chapman once said that if you add hp to a car it will be faster down the straight. If you reduce the weight, it will be faster everywhere.
Colin Chapman once said that if you add hp to a car it will be faster down the straight. If you reduce the weight, it will be faster everywhere.
