How do you choose the proper anti-sway bars?

[Meeyatch1]

Mitch, aren't you glad that you asked?
No doubt about it, most people like the suspensions that they own.
I still would pay attention to what Honda engineers have designed and tuned for the mid-engine NSX. You have two choices: Zanardi and type R.

(snip)

Some very experienced NSX DE drivers have used the Zanardi suspension and liked it. You might get more of an informed response to your question if you posted it in the Track Forum where the posters are more concerned about performance and less about lowering. You won't read much about Dali springs there :wink:

LOL!! Yes, actually this discussion makes me glad that I asked. It is educating me and makes me glad to have this forum...cool stuff, eh?

From what you are saying, and others have supported, I am leaning towards Type-R parts, but I have no idea where to find them.

 

[MJK]

Thank you for everyone responses....here is what I have gleened so far, so please correct me if I am off base. For the best performance I need to ditch my Eibach Pro-Kit, set my Bilstein shocks on the lower perch, and buy the NSX Type-R springs, chassis bars and sways?

Where can these parts be purchased and how much are they?

Be careful, that is mighty ballsy for pure street. Zanardis are about as stiff as I would want to go on public roads. Everyone's got opinions but at least try and ride in someone elses car before you buy 'em. If I were you, I might get the new type S complete with sway bars.

You can buy either the full type S or Type R from SoS.

 

[Meeyatch1]

Be careful, that is mighty ballsy for pure street. Zanardis are about as stiff as I would want to go on public roads. Everyone's got opinions but at least try and ride in someone elses car before you buy 'em. If I were you, I might get the new type S complete with sway bars.

You can buy either the full type S or Type R from SoS.

Here in the sticks I am the only NSX I see most of the year....so finding another car is a challenge.

Where can I get just pieces of the Type-R suspension? If it performs, I really do not care about ride....I am nutty that way. :tongue: :wink:

 

[MJK]

Here in the sticks I am the only NSX I see most of the year....so finding another car is a challenge. Where can I get just pieces of the Type-R suspension?

Would have to be used as far as I know if you didn't intend on purchasing the dampers and springs together. I know you can order Z springs seperately, but that is only b/c they were sold here. It gets harder with JDM stuff.

If it performs, I really do not care about ride....I am nutty that way. :tongue: :wink:

I hear ya... but I've been to Indiana (going back next week in fact). Be careful. :biggrin:

 

[Meeyatch1]

...I hear ya... but I've been to Indiana (going back next week in fact). Be careful. :biggrin:

LOL!! Where are you going to be visiting??

 

[mickeylex]

Where can I get just pieces of the Type-R suspension? If it performs, I really do not care about ride....I am nutty that way. :tongue: :wink:

Mitch,
You can get the whole setup from SOS. The coilover is only offered as a combo of springs and shocks. The Front R sway can be ordered individually and the front braces can be ordered individually:
Type R springs/shocks: http://scienceofspeed.com/products/suspension_performance_products/NSX/Honda/Type-R_suspension/

Type R Front Sway: http://scienceofspeed.com/products/...roducts/NSX/Honda/stabilizer_bars/default.asp

Type R Front braces:
http://scienceofspeed.com/products/...Honda/NSX-R_chassis_reinforcement/default.asp

Type S: http://scienceofspeed.com/products/suspension_performance_products/NSX/Honda/Type-S_suspension/

The entire Type R setup (springs, shocks, front sway and front braces) gets expensive pretty quickly. The springs and shocks are the bulk of the cost.

You already said you are willing to sacrifice ride quality for performance and the Type R setup will definately give you that. I've riden in an NSX with the Type R setup and it handled like a dream...flat, stiff and confidence inspiring. Along with that came a harsh street ride.

Call SOS and talk it over with Chris or one of the other guys there. They always give me good advice when I call.

 

[Meeyatch1]

I just checked the S.O.S. site for the Type-R pieces....does the bar that crosses over the battery tray interfere with the actual battery at all??

Also, how much lower will the car sit with the Type-R suspension as related to the stock NSX?

Finally, this may seem minor, but I have to ask. It lists these parts for the '02 NA2 Type-R....will these fit my '94 NA1 NSX without issue?

 

[MJK]

LOL!! Where are you going to be visiting??

Indianapolis.

To answer the questions above, all the bits will fit your NSX just fine. The only issue is between some front sway bars and the NSX-R front bars. Either NSX-R or S (old and new) springs lower things from stock by about 1/2" (my photo gallery here shows the Z springs). Check out this thread by Jadkar.

Here are some good threads:
Zanardi vs NSX-S suspension
Here is how I installed R-braces on my car

 

[Hrant]

Thank for the detailed feedback...here are my goals and current set-up.

1.) Reduce body roll and reduce some of the understeer the car has. I am running stock 16/17 wheels and tire sizes now, but may upgrade to a 17/18 setup later with appropriate tire sizes.

2.) I am okay with a stiff ride as long as it delivers performance. I will drive 98% street with some track. I drive very fast all the time so I want the handling and will compromise ride comfort for it.

Right now I have Bilstein shocks on the upper perch with Eibach Pro-Kit springs. Everything else on the suspension is stock....for now... :tongue:

Based on the above criteria, I believe you are almost there instead of looking for overkill mods.

98% street driving means you are not tracking the car. Hence, you don't need a stiffer suspension. Perhaps Eibach's progressive nature is making you believe you need a stiffer approach. On street driving, Eibach is slightly more comfortable than the OEM ride and becomes stiffer as you load it. Since there are few occasions where you will really load the suspension on "legal" street driving, hence you should look at how to make the basic street driving more "sporty." I recommend you dump the Eibach's and go with the OEM springs with your current Bilstein on lower perch. Zanardi springs or Dali's springs are no match to the Bilsteins you have; you will need Koni or Zanardi shocks - but then again why if you are 98% street driving!

As for body roll, your solution lies in the spring rates and sway bars. Again, since 98% of your driving is street, you should try to think of the overall balance of your car. Try the sway bars first and you will be surprised how effective that simple and relatively cheap solution will affect your ride and handling. The Comptech sway bars or Dali's street/track sway bars are adjustable and offer several settings to your liking. The Type R sway bar does not offer such flexibility. Start with the middle holes and if that is not enough go to the stiffest.

The Type R braces will stiffen the front and give a more precise steering. But they will also induce understeer. Again, with 98% street driving, I fail to understand or appreciate why you would look for this modification. Do the sway bars first and then see if that was not enough. Should you go this route, you will most likely need Al Terpak's kit if you use aftermarket sway bars.

Finally, with lower profile tires, you will further reduce the sensation of body roll.

But as all noted, there is a balance to this. You just can't slap stick mods because independently they do good. It's a question of how well they will all work together to achieve a certain goal. For a 98% street driving - albeit aggressive and trying to minimize understeer - you are going with overkill IMHO. YMMV. HTH.

 

[Stick-e-rice]

So if you have Eibachs on Bilsteins what can you do to further improve the handling?

My knowledge on cars is very very handicapped.:biggrin: So I'll just drive a conclusion on what is recommended, hehe.

Thanks.

 

[Hrant]

So if you have Eibachs on Bilsteins what can you do to further improve the handling?

My knowledge on cars is very very handicapped.:biggrin: So I'll just drive a conclusion on what is recommended, hehe.

Thanks.

Again, "further improve the handling" for what purpose? What is your goal?

 

[MJK]

^ Good points ny Hrant.

I assumed it had too much body roll, and you wanted to really stiffen that up. Sways would do something for that, maybe just start with that if you are happy with ride quality.

 

[Stick-e-rice]

Just daily driving. Hutch drives the car harder than I do. But from time to time, I like to as well.

I just want to tweak the car to be as its best working with what we have on the car already. We're getting the car into the shop as soon as the Bilsteins arrived so I prefer to have everything done on this install so the car will be done with and I can bring it back to Denver. At this time, we will also install new rotors, new pads, and minor cosmetic stuff. The Eibachs were recently installed by the prior owner and the OEM shocks must be stock because the front lip was scruffing the ground on relatively high speed downhill S Turns, so we just ordered Bilsteins.

Any little thing that helps while doesn't require replacing what we currently have is the idea. Car is a 91 and I just want to refresh it so it feels "new" again.:smile:

I might go to the track more for social reasons and to have a good time so to have a tweaked setup with what we have would be nice. And I could save on the install when the bilsteins come in. Thanks.:smile:

I don't know how the car rides yet, as I have never driven the NSX we purchased yet, only Hutch has. I can't wait when I get to LA and the car is tweaked up with the new parts we bought.

 

[Hrant]

Given your needs, you are fine with your current set up. But given the scraping you noted, you should consider keeping it at the high perch on the Bilsteins with the Eibachs that you already have. The lower perch drops the height by an additional 1/2" to 7/8" ......... The only other "optional" mod is the adjustable Comptech or Dali street/track sway bars and that only because the car is at the shop and you want it all ready to go in a "new" feel :wink:

The sway bars make a bigger noticeable difference on T models than the coupe. Save your money for now. Enjoy driving the car for a few months and then consider the options. HTH.

 

[Meeyatch1]

Man...I am really glad I came on here to ask before I bought. This is opening my eyes to how many different ways there are to fine tune the suspension.

 

[MJK]

Hrant's always on the money, but I have to say that sways and NSX-R bars made a VERY noticeable difference in the way my otherwise stock NSX drove at the time I installed them. Much crisper turn in, much less roll. I never drove the car with just one or the other installed, but take that for what it is worth. JMO, YMMV, etc.

 

[Meeyatch1]

Indianapolis.

To answer the questions above, all the bits will fit your NSX just fine. The only issue is between some front sway bars and the NSX-R front bars. Either NSX-R or S (old and new) springs lower things from stock by about 1/2" (my photo gallery here shows the Z springs). Check out this thread by Jadkar.

Here are some good threads:
Zanardi vs NSX-S suspension
Here is how I installed R-braces on my car

I started reading all of those and got a headache and had to stop....it sounds like every option either bangs, scrapes, or requires you to cut the car somehow...is that right?

 

[WingZ]

I started reading all of those and got a headache and had to stop....it sounds like every option either bangs, scrapes, or requires you to cut the car somehow...is that right?

Not the Type R stuff. Just one of the bars requires the bar itself to be cut ,but not the car.

 

[Meeyatch1]

Not the Type R stuff. Just one of the bars requires the bar itself to be cut ,but not the car.

Argh...I am not a fan of cutting...the OCD part of me gets bent about that. :wink:

 

[WingZ]

Nah machine shop will do that for you and the fit is perfect with the Type R brace bars and sway. Big improvement with body roll since that's what your concerned with. If you don't like them post them on Prime and they'll be sold before you can finish typing.:biggrin:

 

[Frank Oles]

FUN thread. Lots of great information.

I too find myself in the maze of suspension options. Once you start messing with what Mother Honda created, it gets expensive and confusing really quick.

Just to clarify, is it bad to mix the Zanardi springs with Bilsteins? The reason I ask:

.5 inch drop is barely noticeable. 1 inch drop on an NSX is just about perfect aesthetically (to me, subjectively). Theoretically, you could combine the lower perch on the Bilsteins (.5 inch drop) with the Zanardi springs (.5 inch drop) to get a 1 inch drop without having the compromise of progressive rate springs (ie. Eibach). But I fear the valving on the Bilsteins may not be able to cope with the increased rate of the Zanardi springs. Has anyone tried this?

Is there any other way to get a 1 inch drop and still have a sightly stiffer (but not Type R stiff) but streetable suspension that doesn't get wierd when the suspension loads up in corners?

 

[Hrant]

I started reading all of those and got a headache and had to stop....it sounds like every option either bangs, scrapes, or requires you to cut the car somehow...is that right?

Mitch, read my and Al's posts and look at the step by step pictures of Al's kit in Jadkar's thread. We put some 30 hours of R&D on that kit! You don't need to cut anything. And if you are still doing 98% street driving why would you need one

 

[Meeyatch1]

Mitch, read my and Al's posts and look at the step by step pictures of Al's kit in Jadkar's thread. We put some 30 hours of R&D on that kit! You don't need to cut anything. And if you are still doing 98% street driving why would you need one

So that kit is still available, correct?

I have narrowed down my two primary choices (for now):

1.) Bilsteins, Eibach Pro-Kit, Type-R chassis bar, Type-R sway bar

2.) Bilsteins, Eibach Pro-Kit, Comptech sway bars

Still in the back of my head is the idea of going full out and getting the entire Type-R set-up but my wallet is telling me to check the other options out first.

In order to get some more info I called S.O.S. today and they told me I would have to cut a core support to install the Type-R parts....that sounds more major than anything I remember reading here.....input?

 

[Osiris_x11]

NSX-R chassis/frame bars & (F+R) adj. sways is my advice!

I. Still in the back of my head is the idea of going full out and getting the entire Type-R set-up but my wallet is telling me to check the other options out first.

II. In order to get some more info I called S.O.S. today and they told me I would have to cut a core support to install the Type-R parts....that sounds more major than anything I remember reading here.....input?

(i.) You'll quickly lose interest in your NSX if you decide to go w/ the NSX-R suspension... :frown: It's impractical for any NSX that see's more than 50% street use. Possibly it maybe appreciated on an occasional high-speed off-ramp or cloverleaf interchange, otherwise it'll be like riding in a car w/ no shocks or springs!

I, too, was very adamant about getting JDM/Father-Honda/NSX-R setup. But I have found solace in knowing Comptech is Father-Honda_Approved!

(ii.) These should offer more insight, it's nothing major IMHO.

"NSX-R's bars installed..."
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21874&highlight=sway+nsx-r+shroud+cut

"NSX-R Chassis Bar Updates..."
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55137&highlight=sway+cut

"Type R bar bangs w/sway bar..."
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24233&highlight=sway+cut

 

[NSXGMS]

I have narrowed down my two primary choices (for now):

1.) Bilsteins, Eibach Pro-Kit, Type-R chassis bar, Type-R sway bar

2.) Bilsteins, Eibach Pro-Kit, Comptech sway bars

Still in the back of my head is the idea of going full out and getting the entire Type-R set-up but my wallet is telling me to check the other options out first.

Osiris is right on. The difference between choices 1 or 2 & #3 is night and day. You wallet won't feel it as much as your kidneys do. No way will you enjoy or reap the benefits of this setup with more than 50% street use.

Type-R is a track-only tuned, hard-core setup compared to OEM (including Zanardi). Sure, there are more aggressive setups out there, but then you're talking race-tuned. All the guys I've heard say the Type-R is totally liveable are track rats and racers.

As with all "major" upgrades, drive a car with the suspension you're interested in before jumping that far, especially with things like suspensions & clutches. :biggrin: