Honcho's Long Road to Imola Type-S Zero

It's that racecar <----> street car spectrum I'm always struggling with. I am enamored with the idea of ITBs, but I also want the reliability of the Honda. But let's be real...I'll probably do the ITBs at some point. :D But that means Haltech and a billet oil pump gear too...
I think everyone will find the best balance that suits their needs. I'm honestly pretty damn content with my stock motor ITB setup now, but still itching to see what's possible and i'm approaching more as a technical challenge to overcome first then maximize driving experience secondarily. Though, I can't imagine a short gear 6spd, Wavetrac LSD, fully build NA 3.6L ITB to not be at least a little fun on the road. We'll see. The NSX is very cool in that it's flexible for many builds from mild to wild because the chassis is so good.
 
have you thought about a ppf for the imola? I have my Durango covered with xpel and ceramic and it is such a nice piece of mind. Real easy to clean.
 
you must live stream first ignition....

It will be underwhelming. Lots of sputtering and stalling, blue smoke from all the oil I smeared in the cylinder bores to keep them from rusting, etc. If it even starts... :o We have to set the RDX injectors properly, set the idle screw, make sure the Demon is talking to the ECU properly, etc. Lots of failure points.

[MENTION=18194]Honcho[/MENTION] - I'd probably do the billet oil pump gear now, but that's just me

I probably should have, but at this point I just want my engine back together!

I think everyone will find the best balance that suits their needs. I'm honestly pretty damn content with my stock motor ITB setup now, but still itching to see what's possible and i'm approaching more as a technical challenge to overcome first then maximize driving experience secondarily. Though, I can't imagine a short gear 6spd, Wavetrac LSD, fully build NA 3.6L ITB to not be at least a little fun on the road. We'll see. The NSX is very cool in that it's flexible for many builds from mild to wild because the chassis is so good.

I have the same urges as you, but you are more willing to go for it! Honda gave us the blueprint for the C30A in the Le Mans GT2 engine. In race trim on race gas that thing was pushing over 400 hp from three liters! and it could survive a 24 hour race. How? ITB, VTEC-killer cams, 13:1 compression, ~10,000 rpm, dry sump, adjustable cam gears, etc. It's interesting that Honda took back all of those Mugen C30A race engines when it sold the surplus GT2 cars to private owners, who then had to provide their own engines. I wonder what else they had in there? :)

have you thought about a ppf for the imola? I have my Durango covered with xpel and ceramic and it is such a nice piece of mind. Real easy to clean.

I'm going to use the shop that did my faux-S seats. I was so impressed that they earned the business for the ppf. They use Hexis Bodyfence, which is similar to the Xpel Ultimate product. I'm going to do the entire front end of the car and possibly the upper rear bumper, since I hate wiping the soot off of it.
 
I'd definitely ceramic coat it once paint have cured etc. It only makes sense to protect all the work and investment you have made, Paul. Everything looks fantastic, thanks for taking us on this journey, look forward to more updates.
 
You have all this time and money invested into the car, just get the entire car PPF'd. Don't cheap out in the end. You can also use McKee's to ceramic coat the car. My friend uses it on his cars and RV, and I just used it on my boat.

https://www.amazon.com/stores/McKees37/CarCareKits/page/192ACDF2-B255-4AFA-B5F6-F50FAB68EC57

I'd definitely ceramic coat it once paint have cured etc. It only makes sense to protect all the work and investment you have made, Paul. Everything looks fantastic, thanks for taking us on this journey, look forward to more updates.

Thanks guys. It means a lot to know that long time owners like you actually care about this project. It's funny the amount of planning/thought that goes into each decision. But, I suppose that is part of what makes hobbies fun. I think of PPF like armor and here in Colorado, that means the whole front of the car needs protection from rock chips. The rest is "meh". (cue [MENTION=34522]NSX_n00b[/MENTION] to chime in with "but I got a rock chip on my B PILLAR!!!") to me. I daily drove my 91 in all 4 seasons for several years here and it was the bumper, hood, mirrors, fenders and window glass that took the damage. So, those get PPF. Of course, now that I said this, I'll get a big, 2 foot long scratch down the rear quarter on the 3rd day I drive it. Sigh....

I will ceramic coat my wheels since the Carbotech AX6 pads dust like crazy. But as for coating the rest of the car, I'm kinda on the fence about it. I keep reading that if you do get a scratch, you have to pay someone to remove the entire coating first and then re-do the coating. For a scratch. Some part of me thinks that's ridiculous. I know, it's irrational. I'll probably end up PPFing the whole thing.
 
Before I was able to get my POS 2017 LemoNSX protected with PPF, I got hit by a rock on the roof and it gouged the clear coat and exposed a little of the CF. When I got the front, roof, and all the CF PPF'd you couldn't see or feel the gouge on the roof. A week after another rock hit the front and hood and tore through the PPF and damaged the paint. They peeled off the damaged PPF and then used a black Sharpie marker to block out the primer that was visible and then a blue Sharpie to give a little color to it. When they reapplied the PPF you couldn't even tell the paint was previously chipped.

I don't know if they make Orange Sharpies, but I can tell you that if I didn't have the PPF that I would have had to paint the entire front end of the car.

Just bill 0.25hr extra to a few clients and it'll cover the PPF. :D
 
.or get in on the Monsanto roundup chum line...:tongue:
 
DocL said:
Just bill 0.25hr extra to a few clients and it'll cover the PPF. :D

Haven't billed by the hour in years. These days it's stock options. :D But still, I'll probably do it.

.or get in on the Monsanto roundup chum line...:tongue:

It's the new asbestos.

Spray on PPF looks like an interesting option... https://www.dcclassics.co.uk/spray-wrap-ppf/

I wonder if this is like plasti-dip but clear? They claim you can polish it though, which you can't do with the dip. You guys in the UK get all the good stuff!


Where do you find this stuff??? I'm pretty sure I saw Ron Popiel in there.
 
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I still have a pocket fisherman!!!!!!
 
Brake Overhaul 11

Rear Calipers

Wrapping up the brake refresh process. Just need to repeat on the L side caliper.

The new caliper pins. Special thanks to Kaz, who pointed out that the pin with the flat bottom (45325 in the photo below) goes on the bottom side of the caliper bracket. These pins are coated with the orange Niglube except for the area where the rubber boot attaches, which is the white G-40M silicone. Also visible is my piston boot compressor "tool"- note I had to take some diameter out of the tube with some tin snips. :)

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Cleaning up the caliper bolts. Just a wire brush and some brake cleaner.

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Caliper bracket assembled with the new rubber and pins.

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Right side complete.

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Thanks for the comments on the cams. Maybe I'll end up getting the same ATR S cams and copy those who've done all the research for me :rolleyes:

Thanks guys. It means a lot to know that long time owners like you actually care about this project. It's funny the amount of planning/thought that goes into each decision. But, I suppose that is part of what makes hobbies fun. I think of PPF like armor and here in Colorado, that means the whole front of the car needs protection from rock chips. The rest is "meh". (cue @NSX_n00b to chime in with "but I got a rock chip on my B PILLAR!!!") to me. I daily drove my 91 in all 4 seasons for several years here and it was the bumper, hood, mirrors, fenders and window glass that took the damage. So, those get PPF. Of course, now that I said this, I'll get a big, 2 foot long scratch down the rear quarter on the 3rd day I drive it. Sigh....

I will ceramic coat my wheels since the Carbotech AX6 pads dust like crazy. But as for coating the rest of the car, I'm kinda on the fence about it. I keep reading that if you do get a scratch, you have to pay someone to remove the entire coating first and then re-do the coating. For a scratch. Some part of me thinks that's ridiculous. I know, it's irrational. I'll probably end up PPFing the whole thing.

You gotta gotta gotta ceramic coat the car, it's so easy to do by yourself for the cost of a kit (like $60-80). Once it's done you basically just have to hose the car off and it looks like it's just been washed. I should make a vid of cleaning my coated wheels. Even though the EBC Yellows are also made entirely of compacted dust, just a quick hose-off gets 95% of the dust off and creates a black stream on the driveway.

If I were you I'd wait until the car is together again and then ceramic it myself first thing before driving it around. Right now the paint is totally naked so it's the perfect time for a coating, just wipe it down with IPA/wax remover first. Detail shops like to ham up the ceramic process like it's a big deal for pros only since it's their bread-and-butter and they can charge $1000+ for it (and they get exclusive access to "pro-grade" coatings), but if you watch a video or two you can do it easily with a DIY kit that will last years. Removal of the coating is not an issue, if you need to remove a portion of it just get some finishing polish and a microfiber cloth and hand polish the area lightly, and you can reapply the coating right after to whatever size spot you want. You can use this method as well if you get a high spot where the coating dries without being wiped off which can leave a rainbow-looking sheen. You can ceramic coat PPF just the same, and just as worth it. You shouldn't ceramic and then PPF though, only the other way around.

Since you wanna track the car I'd consider getting the side skirts and rear bumper spats PPF'd too, that's where a lot of debris gets kicked up. Surely you can dip in to your Amayama budget for some extra PPF coverage ;^)


LMAO

Is there a billboard in CO for INJURED? CALL HONCHO AT LAW. I guess you can do your own traffic tickets too :cool:
 
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You gotta gotta gotta ceramic coat the car, it's so easy to do by yourself for the cost of a kit (like $60-80). Once it's done you basically just have to hose the car off and it looks like it's just been washed. I should make a vid of cleaning my coated wheels. Even though the EBC Yellows are also made entirely of compacted dust, just a quick hose-off gets 95% of the dust off and creates a black stream on the driveway.

I bought a DIY kit for my Type-S wheels. Maybe I will use it on the parts of the car that are not PPF then.


Is there a billboard in CO for INJURED? CALL HONCHO AT LAW. I guess you can do your own traffic tickets too :cool:

It's funny- I'm basically the opposite of those guys. I'm pure, corporate evil. :D
 
Engine Refresh 59

Setting # 1 TDC

Finding it difficult to resume work after the sad news about our member goldNSX. But, I must keep pushing.

For our NSX, which uses a DOHC interference layout, the cam timing is critical, especially if you are running larger cam lobes like the Comptech cams. Visualize the rotation of the engine and the cam lobes opening and closing the valves as the pistons move up and down- now speed it up to 8,000 rpm. Even a tiny bit of variation can have a large effect on power, as the valves could be slightly early or late depending on the circumstances. For this reason, it is critical that the engine be exactly at # 1 TDC when you set the timing belt. The factory workshop manual method of finding this critical position is not good, in my opinion. The plastic pointer on the lower timing cover is not precisely fixed. And, staring down at the marks on the crank pulley can induce position error based on how you are leaning.

Thankfully, Honda provided us with a better method. On the belt drive pulley, you will notice that there is a small triangle stamped on one of the gear teeth. This triangle corresponds to the arrow cast into the oil pump housing. Lining up these marks will give you a much more precise setting.

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But even with this method, there can still be some position error. The oil pump is fixed to the engine block with dowel pins, so the position variation between engines should be low. However, there is some play on the drive pulley on the crankshaft keyway, and the casting of the arrow may not be uniform. So, in my mind, the only way to truly know if you are at TDC, is to actually measure the piston position itself using a degree wheel. This is probably way overkill, but I will not open this engine again (hopefully) for another 10 years.

Because my cams are installed, I cannot rotate the crankshaft all of the way through its cycle without potentially contacting a valve. So, I devised another way. Using the timing mark on the drive pulley, advance the # 1 piston past TDC until it moves down into its ignition stroke. It doesn't really matter where- just advanced past TDC. Set the degree wheel at 0.

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Next, you need a way to mark the piston position. I used a wooden dowel. To support the dowel, I used a fender washer drilled out to slightly larger than the dowel and taped to the # 1 spark plug hole.

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Insert your dowel and mark the current piston position with a line.

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Now, slowly rotate the crankshaft counter-clockwise until you see the mark appear again. There it is.

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Note the degree on the wheel. In this case it was 157.33 degrees before 0.

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Now, divide that number by 2 and you will get the exact degree position for # 1 TDC. In this case, the number is 78.665 degrees. Rotate the crankshaft clockwise to that number on the wheel.

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Interestingly, I saw the "rough" TDC mark I made when I was setting the cams.

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Now, check the marks. Looks like this engine is dead-on.

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Now, I can be confident that the # 1 piston is exactly where it is supposed to be. I will not touch the crankshaft again until the timing belt is installed and the cam timing is set.
 
Transmission Refresh 6

5th Shift Fork

Had some extra time, so I decided to tackle the revised 5th gear shift fork.

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This made me think of my recently departed friend goldNSX, who opined that you needed to remove the spring pin to release the fork. Thankfully, after carefully studying the layout, this is not necessary. You only need to remove the clamp on the shaft. This has a special 8mm spring washer that must be replaced.

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The original spec shift fork. This part had a tendency to crack under repeated load (mostly from owners slam-shifting into 5th- don't do that! It's an overdrive and should be engaged slowly due to the small synchro, difference in gear ratio, etc.). Honda revised the part to a much thicker piece of steel.

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The 8 mm bolt, old special spring washer and 5/16 steel ball. The corresponding notch where the ball fits is shown on the 5th/Reverse shaft.

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General

Google Photo

Well, last night, Google Photos decided to glitch out and wipe my entire share folder. 3 years of work...

Thankfully, all photos are still in my account- they just were removed from the shared album. So, I apologize to the members who are looking at the thread for the picture reference. For now, I will continue to post as normal and add pictures as I go.

When the car is done, I will spend some time attempting to re-create the photos in the older posts.
 
Interior

I'm not a very good painter. :) Let's just put that out there.

I'm working on re-painting my door handles to match the console pieces. These handles were terribly scratched, chipped and gouged. My mistake here was using acetone to wipe the primer before the color coat. The primer soaked up some of the acetone, and the color didn't stick in those spots.

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After sanding down and re-painting, it's much better. not perfect, but vastly better than the original state.

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Engine Refresh 60

Timing Belt

While the factory workshop manual is helpful, installing the timing belt on the NSX is a bit of an art form. It all looks straight-forward in the manual and online writeups, but there is nuance. The nuance is due to a few factors:

  • The cams are under spring tension from the valve springs and will tend to push the cam wheels off alignment
  • The spacing/relationship between the number of teeth on the cam gears, drive pulley and timing belt
  • The tension created by the adjuster
  • The tension within the belt itself
  • The routing of the belt so that any slack ends up between the rear EXH cam and the tension adjuster


All of these factors combine to cause a challenge in getting the cams to line up at # 1 TDC when the belt is tensioned. Here is how I overcome them:

First, you must make sure the engine is at #1 TDC. I did that in an earlier post.

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Next, you have to set the cams to #1 TDC position. In my case, I did not need the fixing pins. I was able to get the cams to sit in the correct position by carefully turning them. There is a risk that they will suddenly spin off of the cam lobe and move out of position. If this happens, you may need to use the pins to hold them in place.

Front head aligned with the timing mark on the back plate.

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Rear head in the correct position. Notice the rear EXH cam is slightly past the timing mark. This is to facilitate the belt fitting. The belt usually won't go on if you put it exactly at the mark- a factor of the number of teeth and teeth spacing.

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Now, you install the belt in the sequence shown in the manual. I personally don't just slam it on there. As I go through the sequence, I pull the belt as tight as possible. This has the effect of reducing the slack and getting the belt teeth on the correct teeth of the cam gears. I also put the tensioner as far to the left as possible and fix it there.

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Engine Refresh 61

Timing Belt, cont.


Now that the belt is on, you must remove the slack from each cam gear, working from the front EXH backwards. I have seen some people use a 14mm wrench on the bolt to do this. I do not recommend using this method, as you could loosen the torque of the cam gear holder bolts. Instead, you really need a spanner wrench, which allows you to rotate the gears without touching the bolt. I've also read that people just grab and turn the wheels by hand, but given the torque required, they must have gorilla hands or something. If you do it correctly, you get this:

Front head- right on the money.

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Rear head- right on the money. Notice how the rear EXH gear lined right up?

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Once you are absolutely sure that the slack is gone, release the adjuster spring and re-tighten. This will, in theory (more on that later), take up all of the slack you removed, which will sit between the rear EXH cam and the tensioner until you release the tensioner.

Now, rotate the crankshaft until the front intake cam gear is 9 teeth past #1 TDC.

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Release the tensioner again. You should see the belt relax a bit. Then torque the tensioner bolt.

Torque to 43Nm.

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I always mark my bolts to show the torque setting was applied. But, do you notice something? The belt looks curved on the tensioner. I checked the tension between the tensioner and rear EXH and it felt, well, floppy. It's been a good while since I did a NSX timing belt, but this felt loose to my calibrated finger. I did a quick check to see if I could move the water pump- I could not (see below). This, plus the super-exact timing marks on the cam gears, tells me that there is no slack between the cam gears and water pump- the teeth are exactly how they should be. So, the issue must be between the rear EXH and the tensioner. Look at the video.


View attachment 20210910_220916.mp4

This left me scratching my head. A quick consult with Kaz revealed that sometimes you need to do the slack removal process a few times. Critically, you can get a rough measure of the slack by measuring the belt deflection by pushing on the belt exactly in the middle between the rear EXH and tensioner. A properly tensioned belt should deflect about 10 mm up or down. I measured my belt and, wouldn't you know it- it moved 14 mm. looks like my finger is pretty well calibrated after all.
 
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Engine Refresh 62

Timing Belt, cont.

After performing the tensioning process two more times, I discovered my problem. When you release the tensioner bolt and the spring takes up the slack, the tensioner can tilt on its pivot point (seen just above and to the right of the drive pulley). This converts what is supposed to be a linear motion into an angular one. There will not be enough tension on the belt to take up the slack.

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By holding the tensioner in place at the pivot when I released the bolt, I was able to get the full spring pressure on the belt. I measured the slack again- exactly 10 mm. After rotating the crankshaft several more times, the timing marks all aligned perfectly each time. The marks are your final tension check- no matter how many times you rotate the crankshaft, these marks should line up exactly right at #1 TDC. If you messed up the install on the cam gears, then he belt can only really be off by one complete tooth. But, if the tension is not correct, the error will be a fraction of a tooth.

Note that on the front head, the bottom edge/half of the EXH gear mark should line up with the timing mark on the back plate.

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But, on the rear head, it's the top edge/half of the INT gear mark that lines up.

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This belt is now tensioned properly.
 
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Engine Refresh 63

Timing Belt Cover, Pulley, etc.

With the belt tension set, moving quickly through re-assembling the timing cover area.

The new lower cover gasket.

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Tyler's "old" new lower cover. All cleaned up and gasket mounted (yes I know I put the weep grommet in the wrong place! I do this stuff after I put the kids to bed... LOL).

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As this NSX will see use at the racing circuit, I installed the Cedar Ridge pulley shield. Thank you to [MENTION=9035]titaniumdave[/MENTION] for making these critical parts for our NSX.

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The new crank pulley. You should replace this every other TB service.

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Although the old crank bolt was ok, I decided to replace it and start fresh. It was way over torqued and I hit it hard with my 3/4" drive "big beast" impact gun.

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Tensioner bolt rubber. I've been waiting three years to say this- probably missing on your NSX. :D

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Engine Refresh 64

Water Pipe

Decided to give the upper engine block area a quick clean up. I know it sits under the intake manifold, but I like a clean work area.

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Lots of water deposits at the O-ring seating area. Cleaned them to this level before placing the new O-rings.

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The new O-rings.

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Water pipe installed.

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