Honcho's Long Road to Imola Type-S Zero

[natcc99]

Started to attack the huge mess of wires on this car. Where to start? Traced the mystery wires on the window washer lines and discovered it was indeed an LED washer nozzle kit. Horrible. Here is what came out. It was held to the body by black electrical tape. No idea how long.

Even worse was what they did to the hood. Clearly cut bigger holes to make room for the wiring, but now the OEM grommets won't fit back in. Have to figure out a way to repair- maybe use larger grommets? Worst case is to replace the hood or have the body shop weld in plugs and re-drill the correct size holes. Unbelievable. Washer nozzles now are not functional until I solve this, though they probably never were working to begin with. Btw, the lower fittings were attached to the nozzles by...epoxy. Because of course they were.

It is nice to see your photos and be able to see your progress.

It is a shame to see the enlarged holes on your hood. Take a look to see if some rivet nuts will help. You can find them on McMaster.
I am honestly not sure if they will work as the hood is not completely flat and I am not sure how big the hole is from the photo. Take a look at the link below, there is a collection of different styles. Maybe one of them will work for you. If you click on details, you might be able to see an engineering drawing to help you check dimensions before buying. Good luck
https://www.mcmaster.com/#threaded-inserts/=1e5n1zr

 

[Honcho]

It is nice to see your photos and be able to see your progress.

It is a shame to see the enlarged holes on your hood. Take a look to see if some rivet nuts will help. You can find them on McMaster.
I am honestly not sure if they will work as the hood is not completely flat and I am not sure how big the hole is from the photo. Take a look at the link below, there is a collection of different styles. Maybe one of them will work for you. If you click on details, you might be able to see an engineering drawing to help you check dimensions before buying. Good luck
https://www.mcmaster.com/#threaded-inserts/=1e5n1zr

Thanks. That link was helpful- they have tons of grommets too! I think I will need to order a rubber grommet with an OD that is close to the hole size in the hood and an ID that is slightly less than the OD of the nozzle elbow. I likely will have to trim off the grommets from the OEM elbows so that they can install in the aftermarket grommets at the correct depth. I'll probably use Permatex gasket seal to fit them permanently. Sigh.

 

[goldNSX]

Throttle cable adjustment: funny that you did this the same day as I did. Mine has also around 20 mm of play. I've adjusted it according to the SM but with the throttle fully pedal to the metal there was too much tension on the throttle cable and we all know that they can snap. 1'' before the pedal hit the metal it was already fully open. So there's no need to have it more open than that and put stress on the cable.

 

[docjohn]

I think adnan is selling new cables..

 

[Mac Attack]

I'll probably use Permatex gasket seal to fit them permanently. Sigh.

I would go with epoxy. Just kidding!

 

[goldNSX]

I think adnan is selling new cables..

Yes, he does. But I hope that mine doesn't fail in the middle of nowhere. :wink:

 

[docjohn]

you should ask tony and miled what happens when your main relay fails in the middle of nowhere

 

[Hamburger Bill]

Don’t mind me, I’m just here to watch.

However, I didn’t get a ride in the black car OR the GT R. I’m going to have to insist on a ride in this one at some point.

Nice buy and a great project. Good luck.

H.B.

 

[DreamPowered]

Wow thats alot of roughness that needs to be overcome. But im sure when its all said and done your build will be wonderful. Prime has been quiet for a while, and this should add some traffic back to the site.

 

[Honcho]

Throttle cable adjustment: funny that you did this the same day as I did. Mine has also around 20 mm of play. I've adjusted it according to the SM but with the throttle fully pedal to the metal there was too much tension on the throttle cable and we all know that they can snap. 1'' before the pedal hit the metal it was already fully open. So there's no need to have it more open than that and put stress on the cable.

Presumably, Honda took the tension into account when they set the slack standard in the manual (10 mm to 12 mm). I picked the middle of that range because it seemed right to me. Maybe [MENTION=25737]Kaz-kzukNA1[/MENTION] can chime in, but I can't imagine Honda would take a chance with such a critical part. Btw, I am working on a custom Bilstein/Swift suspension option, based largely on your past experiences with it. I'll reach out when the time comes.

I think adnan is selling new cables..

I'm probably going to pick up a spare one just to have. Cheap insurance, considering mother Honda no longer has them.

I would go with epoxy. Just kidding!

I almost spit my coffee out when I saw this! Priceless!

Don’t mind me, I’m just here to watch.

However, I didn’t get a ride in the black car OR the GT R. I’m going to have to insist on a ride in this one at some point.

Nice buy and a great project. Good luck.

H.B.

Of course! Though, I would not be too eager to get a ride just yet. The car is rough and it smells funny inside. I found a woman's earring under the passenger floormat, so I'm guessing there were some hoes in this car doing who knows what. Nasty. Makes me want to get the Type-S interior in there stat! And the Bissel. Stat! Currently waiting on Adnan [MENTION=20830]A.S. Motorsport[/MENTION] as to quotes for the seats.

Wow thats alot of roughness that needs to be overcome. But im sure when its all said and done your build will be wonderful. Prime has been quiet for a while, and this should add some traffic back to the site.

The reason I bought one like that was because of the roughness lol. I derive great joy from fixing it and making it just the way I want. It will be a long journey, but when it's done you won't believe what you see.

 

[Honcho]

Health Check 08

Test Drive Report

Until today, Mrs. Honcho was the only one to have driven this NSX. She took it to the police station yesterday to have a VIN check done (the cops went nuts for it, even in its poor, sad condition). She reported that the steering is very hard and the brakes are basically on/off with almost no pedal movement.

During lunch today, I took it to get its emissions check and decided I would do my Health Check test drive to evaluate the car. in short, Mrs. Honcho was right.

Positive Notes

** Even though the car appears to be lowered (look to be black Comptech springs- will check once I get the car in the air), it rides remarkably well. No pogo-sticking or nailing the bump stops. With 137k miles, I wonder if the stock dampers have been replaced?

** The engine pulls strong and hard. No "dead" spots in the rpm band and VTEC engages normally. I expect the compression test results to come back good. Extra torque from the auto trans cams is noticeable.

** No issues with the transmission. All 4 gears work and the car shifts quickly to select the right gear for the situation. I noticed when cold, there was a slight delay after the throttle was pressed before the car would accelerate in 1st gear. I also noticed somewhat jerky upshifting between gears, but both these issues went away as the car warmed up.

Negative Notes

** EPS light is now on all the time (it was off on initial startup and only came on when I turned the wheel). The steering feels like a brick. My last NSX was manual steering and it was not this stiff, even with the heavier 2002+ front wheels. Not sure if this is normal feel for a EPS NSX when the system is off- I have read that people say the steering is very hard without assist due to the beefy nature of the EPS rack. Assuming I can find the missing service check terminal under the glovebox, I will have to sort this problem asap. The car is not very safe or easy to drive with such compromised steering. Hopefully it is the famous 22 error code in the controller box and not in the EPS brain inside the rack.

** The brakes are completely shot. The pedal is essentially on/off with almost no movement and the car takes a long time to slow down under full braking. Brakes will need a full rebuild. Probably not safe to drive the car until I can get this done.

** Driver side window switch is intermittent. Will have to replace it.

** Driver window does not go all the way down. Hopefully just gummed up tracks and not a bad regulator.

** The car took forever to warm up, even though it was 85F today. This tells me the thermostat is probably stuck open.

Considering the above issues, along with the lower front skirt just hanging off the car, I am going to put this NSX on hold for regular driving. Just not safe to do so right now. It will go in the air for brakes and possibly a steering replacement. Still, even with these problems, it felt so good to be driving NSX again. This was the first time since I sold my black car and it made me very happy. This car (317) has a strong soul and is a great core on which to build this project.

 

[solidol]

Yes, he does. But I hope that mine doesn't fail in the middle of nowhere. :wink:

I have a spare in the trunk. Used to be paranoid about getting stuck in the middle of nowhere. Used to travel with nsx much more than these days..

 

[goldNSX]

I have a spare in the trunk. Used to be paranoid about getting stuck in the middle of nowhere. Used to travel with nsx much more than these days..

Unfortunately, a throttle cable is not easily changed like a main relay...

Honcho: Bilstein/Swift combo. If these are the spring rates of the Swift springs:
Front Spring Rate: 3.9 kg/mm (218 lbs/inch)
Rear Spring Rate: 4.6 kg/mm (257 lbs/inch)
you might give the Bilsteins a try out of the box.

I favor B8 over B6 due to their rebound of 0.875'' which tensions the spring more and are easier (shorter) to install on the car.

 

[Honcho]

Unfortunately, a throttle cable is not easily changed like a main relay...

Honcho: Bilstein/Swift combo. If these are the spring rates of the Swift springs:
Front Spring Rate: 3.9 kg/mm (218 lbs/inch)
Rear Spring Rate: 4.6 kg/mm (257 lbs/inch)
you might give the Bilsteins a try out of the box.

I favor B8 over B6 due to their rebound of 0.875'' which tensions the spring more and are easier (shorter) to install on the car.

Oh, I'm going further than that. Swift 65mm 8kg Front and 65mm 6kg on the rear. Coilover sleeve kits (possibly with Hyperco helper springs). Custom valving from Bilstein taking into account spring rates, motion ratios, wheel rates and driving style. And, I'm going to paint them aluminum silver like the real S Zero suspension. ONly variable left is spring length. I'm thinking 6 inches for the Front and 8 inches for the rear with helper springs. Maybe 8 and 10 inches without helpers? I only intend to lower the car about 10-15 mm. I'm not sure how to calculate spring length correctly.

Is the B8 available for the NSX? Doesn't the loss of droop negatively affect the ride? Especially with coilovers?

 

[goldNSX]

Oh, I'm going further than that. Swift 65mm 8kg Front and 65mm 6kg on the rear. Coilover sleeve kits (possibly with Hyperco helper springs). Custom valving from Bilstein taking into account spring rates, motion ratios, wheel rates and driving style. And, I'm going to paint them aluminum silver like the real S Zero suspension. ONly variable left is spring length. I'm thinking 6 inches for the Front and 8 inches for the rear with helper springs. Maybe 8 and 10 inches without helpers? I only intend to lower the car about 10-15 mm. I'm not sure how to calculate spring length correctly.

Is the B8 available for the NSX? Doesn't the loss of droop negatively affect the ride? Especially with coilovers?

Oh, I see.

B8 are available in Germany since a few years. B6 are as long as stock and we all know how much negative suspension travel our cars have. 0.875'' shorter doesn't make any difference in ride quality while the overall height DOES have an impact. Not sure what Mrs. Honcho is expecting.

If you're intending to drop it by 10-15 mm I'd consider an OEM Type S suspension as well. Believe me, it takes several tries for Bilstein to match it. Uninstalling, sending to Bilstein for revalving, mounting, driving expericence by you, uninstalling...something you'd with adjustable shocks within a minute takes weeks. Bilstein also raised their prices significantly...
Back then the choice of customizeable setups (height and shock compression and rebound) was very limited, so I went that route. Nowadays, I might go a different route if I had to decide again.

Just an honest feedback.

 

[Honcho]

Oh, I see.

B8 are available in Germany since a few years. B6 are as long as stock and we all know how much negative suspension travel our cars have. 0.875'' shorter doesn't make any difference in ride quality while the overall height DOES have an impact. Not sure what Mrs. Honcho is expecting.

If you're intending to drop it by 10-15 mm I'd consider an OEM Type S suspension as well. Believe me, it takes several tries for Bilstein to match it. Uninstalling, sending to Bilstein for revalving, mounting, driving expericence by you, uninstalling...something you'd with adjustable shocks within a minute takes weeks. Bilstein also raised their prices significantly...
Back then the choice of customizeable setups (height and shock compression and rebound) was very limited, so I went that route. Nowadays, I might go a different route if I had to decide again.

Just an honest feedback.

I can get new S Zero suspension, but for $1,500 per corner. $6,000 total is just too much. However, after pricing, the Bilstein option is about $1,700. Much better!
Another option is to find a used S Zero suspension or NA1 NSX-R, but I don't know if they can be rebuilt in the US or at all?

 

[Honcho]

Adios MJ

Shiny Acura caps were underneath.

 

[Honcho]

Eps 01

If I'm reading this right, it is EPS trouble code 22. According to @<span class="highlight"><a href="http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/member.php?u=25737" target="_blank">Kaz-kzukNA1</a></span>, this is the common issue with the undersized relays on the power unit circuit board. Have to consider whether to repair or just replace with a manual rack. S Zero did not have EPS as an option.

[video]https://photos.app.goo.gl/8MQK1maei2yKd3eD6[/video]

 

[Honcho]

Funny what a quick wash can do. Hood and front fenders clayed today. Will start paint correction this week, hopefully.

 

[Valhalla]

Whether you decide to retain the EPS or convert to a manual rack, do yourself (and Mrs. Honcho) the favor and send the racks and control box to D1Guy. He is here on the forums and his name is Matt. He and his buddy Charles, can work wonders with these. He will repair the rack, install new bushings, fix whatever electrical gremlins you may have and bench test it on an NSX before sending it back to you. Or you can swap it out for a core charge. One less thing to worry about.

 

[Honcho]

Whether you decide to retain the EPS or convert to a manual rack, do yourself (and Mrs. Honcho) the favor and send the racks and control box to D1Guy. He is here on the forums and his name is Matt. He and his buddy Charles, can work wonders with these. He will repair the rack, install new bushings, fix whatever electrical gremlins you may have and bench test it on an NSX before sending it back to you. Or you can swap it out for a core charge. One less thing to worry about.

Already talking to him.

 

[Honcho]

Body and Paint Work 01

Removed the horrible Pep Boys door guards. They were yellowed and crusty. As I feared, they pulled some paint off the doors on removal, but luckily it was only the paint from the paint job and not the underlying Honda OEM paint. There is a paint lip at the seam, however, that will have to be sanded down on both doors when the time comes for the Imola color change.

Lots of adhesive, mixed with grime and some plastic residue.

Using Goo Gone and my plastic scraper. Took ages, being careful.

Much better, though you can see the paint line.

 

[akito]

am I the only one that can't see the photos?

I think that's a good thing. You don't want to see the things they have done!

 

[Honcho]

Hope to get to more aftermarket wire removal and perhaps temporary bumper repair this weekend. Next up is EPS removal.

 

[Honcho]

Body and Paint Work 02

When cleaning the hood and fenders with the clay bar, I noticed that the front hood rubber seal looked pinched under the hood. Almost as if the bumper had been installed to close to the frame. It also looked too low. Checking the fender to bumper fit confirmed this. Whomever put this bumper on after the respray did a sloppy job. I will need to remove it and re-fit, which is fine because I have a lot to do under there. After the EPS rack comes out to go to Matt and Charles at NSX Rack Repair, I might as well also remove front lip, replace lower bumper skirt and delete A/C condensers/lines.