Holy smoke! What do you guys think??
- Thread starter VietNamNSX
- Start date
It's difficult to give you exact info. due to your 'chip'. If you are curious, you need to hit the dyno. I'd say if professionally tuned, there is -no- reason you shouldn't gain at least 20whp over stock with I/H/E and tuning as long as your parts are quality; maybe even 30whp+. 20whp should give you na2 power, and along with your weight reduction it isn't unreasonable to assume you are around that power/weight ratio or a little better. However, your gearing is awful stock. The most important aspect on any mildly modified n/a car is gearing, despite what you may have heard.
Regarding your particular mods, there is controversy on the effectiveness of test pipes on many car boards. There is absolutely no controversy in the racing world. Race cars run open header, open downpipe, or straight through exhaust almost exclusively. In some ways they are both right and wrong, as unless you have proper tuning many n/a cars won't benefit noticeably from test pipes. There is -no- reason a properly tuned n/a car with an appropriately sized/designed test pipe won't increase power compared to one suffocated with a catalytic converter.
I agree your weight reduction is more a long the lines of 75-100lbs. Forget the 10hp->100lbs or whatever relationships, they are far from actually linear and it's just a saying more or less derived from quarter mile times from a car with some weight reduction vs a car that doesn't have it with more power. Not a bad idea but I don't give them much credit.
Weight reduction makes your car 'feel' faster because it also enhances your handling, responsiveness, and stopping abilities. This is how lightweight n/a cars compete with powerful FI cars on the track. Try to make your weight reduction balanced and focus on rotating assemblies as much as you can, lightweight flywheel, wheels, etc. to maximize gains.
Horsepower/weight ratio also doesn't take into consideration the "torque factor". Although hp/tq is a direct relationship, FI cars naturally produce a lot of twisting force where n/a cars simply cannot.
I enjoy driving a lightweight n/a car just as much as a FI monster. On the track I strongly prefer a lightweight n/a car.
Regarding your particular mods, there is controversy on the effectiveness of test pipes on many car boards. There is absolutely no controversy in the racing world. Race cars run open header, open downpipe, or straight through exhaust almost exclusively. In some ways they are both right and wrong, as unless you have proper tuning many n/a cars won't benefit noticeably from test pipes. There is -no- reason a properly tuned n/a car with an appropriately sized/designed test pipe won't increase power compared to one suffocated with a catalytic converter.
I agree your weight reduction is more a long the lines of 75-100lbs. Forget the 10hp->100lbs or whatever relationships, they are far from actually linear and it's just a saying more or less derived from quarter mile times from a car with some weight reduction vs a car that doesn't have it with more power. Not a bad idea but I don't give them much credit.
Weight reduction makes your car 'feel' faster because it also enhances your handling, responsiveness, and stopping abilities. This is how lightweight n/a cars compete with powerful FI cars on the track. Try to make your weight reduction balanced and focus on rotating assemblies as much as you can, lightweight flywheel, wheels, etc. to maximize gains.
Horsepower/weight ratio also doesn't take into consideration the "torque factor". Although hp/tq is a direct relationship, FI cars naturally produce a lot of twisting force where n/a cars simply cannot.
I enjoy driving a lightweight n/a car just as much as a FI monster. On the track I strongly prefer a lightweight n/a car.
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I thought the guys were being a bit hard when they said that you only had 100lb's or so of reduction, but adding up all the #'s based on your list makes seems to support that. You might be at 150 tops! There is waaaaaaay more stuff you can pull off. Try checking the unnofficial weight reduction thread....
I have to agree with Vance too.
You have unknown 17" wheel/tire that is likely to be a lot heavier than oem 15/16.
I/H/E and spare tires, etc is basic weight reduction (BWR) items that many nsx owners have already done. There is a few advanced weight reduction on your list (AWR).
- All carpets including the one in the trunk
- All sound-deadening stuff behind the seats
50lbs with above 2 items and 150lbs total at best with items on your list. Doesn't seem like you removed a lot of weight. Check out the weight reduction thread and see how people doing it right with more accurate estimates.
The 6spd gearing is hard to over come with 5spd. Maybe NSX really do run better with age, you are at around 200k miles correct? Why downgrade from an 04 to 92? Doesn't make sense at all.
You have unknown 17" wheel/tire that is likely to be a lot heavier than oem 15/16.
That is got to add weight. Your weight reduction is really is really sketchy at best.
I/H/E and spare tires, etc is basic weight reduction (BWR) items that many nsx owners have already done. There is a few advanced weight reduction on your list (AWR).
- All carpets including the one in the trunk
- All sound-deadening stuff behind the seats
50lbs with above 2 items and 150lbs total at best with items on your list. Doesn't seem like you removed a lot of weight. Check out the weight reduction thread and see how people doing it right with more accurate estimates.
The 6spd gearing is hard to over come with 5spd. Maybe NSX really do run better with age, you are at around 200k miles correct? Why downgrade from an 04 to 92? Doesn't make sense at all.
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Maybe NSX really do run better with age, you are at around 200k miles correct? Why downgrade from an 04 to 92? Doesn't make sense at all.[/QUOTE]
Let's just say money was needed. And no, I am not at 200K. Thank you for all the comments. Maybe you are all right and the car is just playing with my mind. I removed the engine cover a while ago, and this morning, the tow hook. I will take all your advises seriously. I retract my statement regarding the 2004 comparison.
Let's just say money was needed. And no, I am not at 200K. Thank you for all the comments. Maybe you are all right and the car is just playing with my mind. I removed the engine cover a while ago, and this morning, the tow hook. I will take all your advises seriously. I retract my statement regarding the 2004 comparison.
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Cool thread! Concerning the test pipes vs. Cats: It's true all race cars are running as open an exhaust as possible, but almost all race cars are set up in a narrow power band to max the performance, and have to be driven in that band. Our street cars need bottom end torque more than peak HP, IMO, and I think the test pipes my hurt. I have them on my '91, as more of a weight saving than anything else, and hate to admit to myself that she feels slower thru the gears. My race car has open header, huge cam, etc., and it's all I can do to drive thru the paddock and get on the track without stalling. Once she's up to 5K, it's like the hand of God, smacking me in the ass, but below that range, kids on their bikes can pull away.
Let's just say money was needed. And no, I am not at 200K. Thank you for all the comments. Maybe you are all right and the car is just playing with my mind. I removed the engine cover a while ago, and this morning, the tow hook. I will take all your advises seriously. I retract my statement regarding the 2004 comparison.[/QUOTE]
VietNamNSX,
If you do the weight reduction like i'm doing it, then you can take back your statement regarding the 2004 comparision...... I'm about to pull out the rest of my interior (door panels, headliner), put in the lexan divider window, and pull out the entire AC system. My car will be well under 2600lb's when i'm done. Once I have Rob lean out my air to fuel ratio my car "should" dyno 10-15 hp higher at the wheels, which I believe puts me well above NA2 territory, plus my 500+ pound weight advantage. We'll see what I can pull off. I may go ahead and do the Dali chip along with the A/F tuning... If I dyno high enough (290ish.... Is that even humanly possible on a non FI NA1?) I might leave this one NA and FI my next NSX. And remember, we also have the gearing issue...... Although the JDM short gears will take care of this.....
If you do the weight reduction the right way, and ALL the way, then you can have a very fast NA1 car, way faster than any non FI NA2. 100lb's simply isn't going to do it though...... Come check out my car if you are in SoCal, or John@Microsofts if you are in Seattle, or anybody else's car that is like ours, and you'll see exactly what you need to do to have "lightweight" NSX.
Here's my challenge: I bring my car to 2500lb's, work out the A/F ratio, do the Dali chip, do short gears & 4.23 R&P, and a stronger clutch. Can I beat a CTSC NA1, or NA2 for that matter.........? I have a feeling i'd be VERY close, and if not, then i'll just go FI and well then it's not an issue any more. This will be very interesting indeed.......
Simo
Simo,
I highly recommend short gears regardless if you are going FI or not. If all motor add the 4.23 R&P for complete NA1-R set up. If you ever planning on FI you don't want to do more than short gears, too low of gearing for the power, definitely hurt your roll on acceleration in 3rd and 4th. There is a lovefab turbo primer that had 4.55R&P+short gears that wanted to trade the tranny for the stock. The gear is too low for the power, extra shift=miss precious few 1/10th of sec. When you have power you are more concerned with traction than anything else. That is base on my personal experience and extensive research.
You are the only Southern Cal NSX that I know is truely capable of 2500lbs. Lets meet up sometime. I will let you do a roll on comparsion maybe a brief test drive, so you can get a rough idea and get taste of what mild FI does to NSX, there is not many people I would trust with my nsx. At 2500lbs + even a mild FI at just 350rwhp, you have an insane beast, probably equivalent of 400rwhp/3000lb in straightline, not to mention outhandle big time. Get a chance to drive different FI set up and do some research and comparison and find the one that suits you, the research part is very important, since it is a major mod, you just want to do it once. The area under curve is very different, they each have +/-.
The A/F ratio in mid range doesn't really affect the peak hp, if you post the graph, I be gladly to take a look see if you can gain by tunning, most likely you will get more mid-range. 270~280rwhp is pretty much maxed out for NA1 with just I/H/E. Most people dyno 260~270rwhp with these mods.
We cruise several times before when you was heavier. At that stage, from my observation is that I can easily pass at well, I drive partial throttle and short shift most of time. There is not 1 NSX I have cruise with in the past that I can't easily pass at well until I curised with 2 red ones recently, I was really surprised, and I later found out that they were both FI.
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Jason, i'll probably end up going FI no matter what, so i'll take your advice and the advice of others and just do the short gears....
I'll take you up on the ride though... You probably have one of the quickest NSX's down here. I've pretty much conceded that just going lightweight isn't enough to overcome the 70-100hp advantage that a CTSC NSX has over me, which is probably why i'll end up going FI myself.
I'm going to finish up my lightweight stuff next week. I just put in the chassis bars and have ordered those 1 1/8th inch front swaybars (YIKES!), and have the Recaro's coming in 2-3 weeks. I can't wait til it's all finished..... But then again it's never finished is it?
Did you pick up your car today? How is it?
Simo,
Unfortunately not yet, it has been a long week, the wait is killing me. Tomorrow is the day, but I been ready enjoying Vance's S2K in the mean time. Vance's S2K gets a big thumbs up from me. I can't sleep:redface:, look like another all nighter.
Went and bought 5qt of the good stuff, 2qt of tranny fluid, 1 qt of rear differential fluid, air filter today. I am changing out all the fluid immediately + 3 layers of wax. Then I can meet up. Saturday morning I can hit PAG or meet at Vances.
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How and where to remove all A/C equipment? And where the heck is the rear tow-hook? Are these things easy to hook back up if I need them?
Let's do it. I'll be in OC on Saturday to wash my car, probably hit up PAG, and I might be going to San Diego to pick up some parts from Mark. Give me a call after you get your car taken care of.
VietNamNSX, The rear tow hooks are located behind the rear wheel on the chassis. Just look in the rear wheel well, they're right behind and above the brakes. It's held in by 3 14mm bolts, they'll be caked with undercoating, so scrape that off of the bolt first.
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VietNamNSX, The rear tow hooks are located behind the rear wheel on the chassis. Just look in the rear wheel well, they're right behind and above the brakes. It's held in by 3 14mm bolts, they'll be caked with undercoating, so scrape that off of the bolt first.[/QUOTE]
I removed the rear tow-hook, what about the AC parts; can they be put back on (easily) if need to?
I removed the rear tow-hook, what about the AC parts; can they be put back on (easily) if need to?
I removed the rear tow-hook, what about the AC parts; can they be put back on (easily) if need to?[/QUOTE]
I'm having my AC removed on Monday. I think as long as you don't remove all the lines that run the full length of the car then you're okay. If you never ever are going to put it back on then you can go ahead and remove everything....
Why don't you guys just let him enjoy the car, the efforts and the result? 100 LBS is huge in acceleration/stopping/turning performance relative to what it is before, especially if you are 'looking' for it. Relative to true performance, maybe not.
Good job VietNamNSX! Hope you continue to have fun, just don't wreck it
Good job VietNamNSX! Hope you continue to have fun, just don't wreck it
Have you dynoed your car?
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Had more weigh removed from the engine-bay today. I haven't dyno the car yet, plus i donot have the rear tow-hook no more.
what is there to remove in engine bay, if you don't my sharing the secret. Fuse box cover, air box?
I removed the engine fan, intake manifold cover, plate, but they weight almost nothing. Saved maybe 5~8lbs and now the engine bay look like crap. What wheels are you running? are they heavier than stock 15/16? Just put the tow hook back on for dyno, otherwise you never know if your mods made power or lose power.
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That was essentially what I did, removed those things from the engine bay. The fan I did not touch because I think it can be beneficial to the engine, but everything else including the Honda Vtec sign is gone. No one is going to know what kind of car it is now.
This thing is... strong!
This thing is... strong!
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Which is why i shaved my head, my 100 metre sprint track times have dropped significantly! :biggrin:
Why not just weight the stuff you remove and then you would know the real numbers?
