I hear these are the rage these days:
Help with choosing a race suit
- Thread starter TURBO2GO
- Start date
I have a business card from a guy who was at WGI for the FCA event last year that I can share with you if you want. I bought some gloves and was thinking about getting a suit... it felt more comfortable than the street clothes. But if I were you, I'd worry about strapping my head to my body before the suit, as far as safety gear goes.
I agree, but that's not simple because a head restraint needs a harness bar, a harness bar needs a harness, a harness needs the airbag defeated which needs a new wheel and the harness needs new seats. Maybe I can get away with stock seats but I still need a harness bar, 6 points and a new wheel minimum. A suit is independent and I agree, for us at least in the northeast, comfortable.
Just curious, why does the airbag need to be defeated with a hraness? I believe this has been debated several times before but do you have any new info/research to share?
Yeah, what Hrant said +1.
No reason for this to be true.
Only comment I would make is you need to have plenty of head clearance &/or roll bar before using head/neck restraint. I'm too tall to use my HANS (in my NSX) I'm guessing many people are.
No reason for this to be true.
Only comment I would make is you need to have plenty of head clearance &/or roll bar before using head/neck restraint. I'm too tall to use my HANS (in my NSX) I'm guessing many people are.
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Dave:
I wear a Simpson(www.TeamSimpson.com) off the rack, 2-layer, single piece suit and it's very comfortable. It was affordable as well.
Feff
I wear a Simpson(www.TeamSimpson.com) off the rack, 2-layer, single piece suit and it's very comfortable. It was affordable as well.
Feff
The term "necessary" has different meanings to different people. It is all a matter of risk management and probabilities.
If I recall, the issue of the airbag has been more one with whether you are wearing an open face helmet or not. The concern was that the force of the airbag was crushing the lower part of a closed helmet thus potentially breaking one's jaw. Purportedly an open face would not have that issue - but then I presume the airbag smacking in your face is not an equally pleasant idea! And I believe since this debate of some 10+ years, the force by which airbags are being deployed has been reduced but don't quote me on that.
Harry is right and we have had this debate too several times. "Ideally" you want a roll cage with full harness. But that may not be an option for almost all who also drive their cars on the streets unless one is really height challenged :wink:
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Agree with all of that except the new wheel/airbag (as mentioned by others). I am actually installing a special resistor in the Z06 that (hopefully!) keeps the airbags working despite installing new seats (which typically causes the airbags to become deactivated).
Re: "Risk": separating fact from perception
+1 on this summary. IIRC, the airbag/closed helmet problem was pure speculation. Plus, (here's my speculation) unless you're really short and sitting really close to the wheel, the bag would be just about fully inflated and not have much force as it hit the helmet.
Since I'm not only redundent, but I repeat myself, I'll restate what Hrant points out, namely, that the key to making decisions about these kinds of "dilemmas" is to remember you're dealing with trade-offs and probabilities. IOW, protection for the low probability worst case scenario may not be the best protection for a higher probability "less severe" accident.
+1 on this summary. IIRC, the airbag/closed helmet problem was pure speculation. Plus, (here's my speculation) unless you're really short and sitting really close to the wheel, the bag would be just about fully inflated and not have much force as it hit the helmet.
Since I'm not only redundent, but I repeat myself, I'll restate what Hrant points out, namely, that the key to making decisions about these kinds of "dilemmas" is to remember you're dealing with trade-offs and probabilities. IOW, protection for the low probability worst case scenario may not be the best protection for a higher probability "less severe" accident.
I have a hard time believing that you are any worse off with an airbag hitting your face when you don't have a helmet on. If the force is so strong that it is breaking the lower part of a helmet, it seems it would most certainly break your jaw without a helmet. A helmet is designed to protect your head and face.... it cushions almost every impact... I really feel that jaw crush thing is some internet KJ'ing. I mean explain to me how if that force is so great you are better off with it hitting you directly in the face.
I also understand the whole risk management thing, I think I've posted more on safety concerns than anyone here with long threads. That's why I was having a rollbar made by STMPO but Ross decided to stop all NSX work and so my rollbar went away with that decision. Now, I am thinking I am still better off with a harness bar than standard 3 points which frankly I just do NOT trust much having seen the crash vids I have seen. Am I screwed in a possible rollover? Yes, perhaps, but I think the chances of other types of wrecks are far greater than the unlucky risk of a full rollover and full crush of the B pillar which is one of the car's strongest parts.
Is it agreed that with a harness and helmet the airbag has no value? That if one keeps the airbag it is for a street driving thing where you have no helmet?
I also understand the whole risk management thing, I think I've posted more on safety concerns than anyone here with long threads. That's why I was having a rollbar made by STMPO but Ross decided to stop all NSX work and so my rollbar went away with that decision. Now, I am thinking I am still better off with a harness bar than standard 3 points which frankly I just do NOT trust much having seen the crash vids I have seen. Am I screwed in a possible rollover? Yes, perhaps, but I think the chances of other types of wrecks are far greater than the unlucky risk of a full rollover and full crush of the B pillar which is one of the car's strongest parts.
Is it agreed that with a harness and helmet the airbag has no value? That if one keeps the airbag it is for a street driving thing where you have no helmet?
I think the argument (which I believe is just speculation with no anecodal evidence) is not that the airbag will break the helmet, but will hit it on the lower edge, rotating it and your head forward and down, increasing the risk of basal skull fracture. Obviously with a H&N restraint, that can't happen.
Yep, with a harness and helmet, the airbag is a non-issue and the only reason to get rid of it and stock steering wheel is weight reduction and the need to simplify stuff in a race car. If you drive on the street, then keeping the bag is necessary.
I think you're heading in the right direction. I had a Comptech harness bar, a 6 point and an H&N device. Since I drove it on the street, I kept the stock steering wheel, (uncut) stock seats and the 3 point. None of that conflicts with the harness and belts.
As for long-winded safety debates, you may be the king now, :biggrin: but were you on the EM list that started in '95 or so? We discussed stuff like this and Ken can probably dig out a real doozy or 2 back from back then. This particular issue was hashed out ad nauseum in 2003-4 and included some stalwarts like Andre who have left. Hats off to the few old farts like Harry, Hrant and Doc who are still here (and apparently have no life). :tongue: They're (usually) the "voice of reason." :biggrin:
So, post what you decide to do as the next guy coming along with this question will benefit from your resolution and save band-width so we can discuss really important stuff like LED lights and the latest shades in floor mats.
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Yeah, I am. What do I need to look for to see if I can use the stock seat with a harness bar? The belt should not go "down" above my shoulders, right? You generally want the little ovals to be above your shoulder height on aftermarket seats, correct?
I know TiDave makes a sub bar or something.... I really don't want to compromise too much safety for saving $, is this a reasonable setup? I mean using the sub bar to get a 6 point in? Certainly the cedar ridge harness bar is cool because it doesn't even need cuts. I guess I am giving up on the rollbar idea now. I do sit far back, my head is just under the B... If the A crushes maybe I will still live... lol
I use a dali-type cushion I think it's already cut. What about the shoulder thing?
As they say, pretty much everything has been debated before on these forums; yes including shades of floor mats :biggrin:
Ted started this with a 2003 post that dragged till 2006 :wink:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18729&highlight=Stock+Seat+5+point+harness
And here is another one that picked up the other issue: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76115&highlight=harness+hrant
And don't forget the knee pads ..... you won't be laughing once you start going fast
:tongue:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21703&highlight=knee+pads
Ted started this with a 2003 post that dragged till 2006 :wink:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18729&highlight=Stock+Seat+5+point+harness
And here is another one that picked up the other issue: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76115&highlight=harness+hrant
And don't forget the knee pads ..... you won't be laughing once you start going fast
:tongue:http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21703&highlight=knee+pads
Hrant's not kidding about the knee pads (not the kind docjohn's used to using) -- the vollyball type.
FYI you don't need to cut the seat cushion for a 6-point sub install. There is a nice slot just above the bottom of the seat back -- it's perfect for the exit of a sit-on-it 6-point sub.
The set up in my car is a hybrid -- an RM harness bar and the bottom section of a Dali (Comptech) that Mark made for me. Works perfectly... been using it since 1999. Didn't want the full Comptech type because it doesn't allow the seat to go back ALL the way -- needed for my height... I do have a Dali cushion for the track.
92 white 0650 I haven't farted for minutes, so I resemble that remark. Er.. resent, yeah that's it, resent that remark.
FYI you don't need to cut the seat cushion for a 6-point sub install. There is a nice slot just above the bottom of the seat back -- it's perfect for the exit of a sit-on-it 6-point sub.
The set up in my car is a hybrid -- an RM harness bar and the bottom section of a Dali (Comptech) that Mark made for me. Works perfectly... been using it since 1999. Didn't want the full Comptech type because it doesn't allow the seat to go back ALL the way -- needed for my height... I do have a Dali cushion for the track.
92 white 0650 I haven't farted for minutes, so I resemble that remark. Er.. resent, yeah that's it, resent that remark.
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Re: Gettin' old ain't for sissies
You sure about that Harry? You probably did but just forgot !! :biggrin: Hint: your long term memory is too good.
You sure about that Harry? You probably did but just forgot !! :biggrin: Hint: your long term memory is too good.
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- 13 March 2011
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Sorry if I'm getting in on this a little late... But I can speak from experience on this subject. Do yourself a favor and get at least a two layer suit, in a fire a single layer suit does nothing but burn (I know from experience). Recently I have been using a G-Force double layer suit SFI 3.2A/5, luckily it hasn't seen any flames yet (and hopefully it never does) so I can't comment on it's resistance to fire but the fact that the series I race in has just banned single layer suits has to speak for something. Don't skimp out in this area, hopefully you never need it, but if you do it is a terrible thing if you have a cheapo suit.
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