Help on value on rebuilt car in PA

[Patricio]

Hey,
First time posting here, been looking around for a while. Not my first fast car of course.
I was wondering what the value of a car Im looking may be

Usually I would not think twice of a fixed car.

Before any assumptions are made this car has currently a clean title and I ran car fax and it says it was in a front end collision and hit a curb BUT.... IT Drives better than 3 others I have driven here are the specs

car was repaired around 2003
96k
1994 Red / Black. Excellent Paint, body matches, almost no visual flaws
6-speed tranny, New clutch with acura receipt $2700 around 85k
Ground effects all around, Rubber not fiberglass
Roof Painted Red as well
wheels off 99
custom fitted pioneer navigation DVD CD in place of both cd and radio area
Interior is in imaculate condition
see through grill/cover over engine
Usually I HATE lamborgini door kits but this car fits them really well I would actually keep them on.

Again very very clean and drives and shifts like new but carfax negative what do you guys think? value?

I will try to post the bad pics i took on my camera phone just for an idea

I drove the car for over 30 min and in traffic as well as around 70mph or so rides absolutly perfect

Best thing about it is the engine is 100% stock, no exhaust, just a K&N drop in
so this guy doesent beat it he just did some exterior mods and claims he finally found a nsx-t that he has always wanted and is basically selling one to get the other. He has only had the car for 4-5 months and he is the one that did the kit and doors and alpine it was previosly stock except for the 6-speed

thats basically the whole story. Again Pictures are taken on camera phone but paint looks almost original in person.

I havent driven this car much anyone know how you would compare a 97 M3 lightweight with I/E/H/chip and coil overs to the NSX just to set some expectations for myself. That was my previous toy

Thanks in advance

 

[Vendetta]

It really depends on the body shop that fixed it. Was it a certified Acura / Honda shop? Also, you can take the car to a shop that can laser check the frame to make sure it's straight and true. If it is straight and if it was done by a reputable body shop, I don't see why it's any different from a non-accident car. Maybe even better since there are more newer parts on the car...I could be wrong though. Just my opinion.

My old Civic daily driver was in an accident prior and carfax said frame damage. I checked it out and everything looked fine plus (like your case) it drove better than all other cars I looked at so I bought it.
I bought it with 60k miles and it now has 155k miles.......all trouble free

PS: You never told us how much he's asking. It may not be worth as much as a non-accident car but if it's rebuilt correctly and the asking price is good, then why not?

 

[nsxtasy]

what do you guys think? value?

Based on your description, $19-22K.

I strongly recommend you have it inspected by a body shop with a lot of NSX body repair experience before making any commitment to purchase this car.

 

[Patricio]

he is asking 28k

re-read the post cause i edited it and added more info if that helps at all

apppreciate the fast help. fast cars fast help. NICE

 

[Chinonsx02]

ill sell u my 93 blk blk with clean title never been in accident for 23000 with new evo hp wheels and pioneer dvd in dash and floor sub and pioneer speakers , with mtx amp :smile:

 

[Patricio]

sounds interesting email or post some pics and miles
thanks

 

[nsxtasy]

he is asking 28k

re-read the post cause i edited it and added more info if that helps at all

I read it. The car has been crashed and has had a lot of mods installed that are generally undesirable when it comes to market appeal and resale value. It's also a high-mileage car to begin with. This is NOT a desirable car, in terms of condition or history. Furthermore, there are some red flags. (Just to cite one - why would anyone bother getting '99 wheels for a '94 car? They're not that different from each other, differing only in finish. Sounds suspicious.)

I said $19-22K and I meant it. This car is not worth anything close to $28K.

Also, you didn't mention whether this car has ever had the timing belt and water pump replaced (which is another red flag). If not, deduct another $1500 from that $19-22K estimate, and do those services immediately.

 

[Patricio]

thanks, nsxtasy
the guy claims the belts were done in the 70 range by previous owner but who knows.? I agree and definatly would do the belt and pump immediatly regaurdless for peace of mind.

Another question does the new 6-speed included add value to the car?

So around 20k it makes sence? the car definatly feels excellent. and I have aranged a PPI for next week. I guess my question would be should I even be considering this car at all? whether I spend 35k or 25k on a car is not my issue. im not financing. For me it is more of getting the right deal and I dont nessecarily want to pay premium for very low miles because I drive the piss out of anything I own and dont mind the maintnance. It will be a daily driver along with my X5 BMW. What mileage range/year price would you guys recomend? taking depreciation and maintnace into account. I figured the more miles but great condition car would not have me worried about ever losing much on resale.

I figured the gotta haves for me are the manual, aero kit in rubber, some nice 18/19 staggerd wheels, exhaust, intake, chip. painted roof. Thats what my car will have within a month of buying a stock one. So having it done already saves me the time to and from shops and being cheap on ebay or calling shops for estimates and so on. Most of the time, the time I waste shopping and arranging is more of a loss than the actual money spent.

So my question is whats the going rate for say a 93-96 with 70-80k mi. e/i/chip rubber aero kit. painted roof, nice wheels. I know i wont find all in one but what would that scenario come in around

thanks so far thank god i came on here cause at first i thought for $26k or so it wasent bad given the condition and drive quality

 

[NSXGMS]

I read it. The car has been crashed and has had a lot of mods installed that are generally undesirable when it comes to market appeal and resale value. It's also a high-mileage car to begin with. This is NOT a desirable car, in terms of condition or history. Furthermore, there are some red flags. (Just to cite one - why would anyone bother getting '99 wheels for a '94 car? They're not that different from each other, differing only in finish. Sounds suspicious.)

I said $19-22K and I meant it. This car is not worth anything close to $28K.

Also, you didn't mention whether this car has ever had the timing belt and water pump replaced (which is another red flag). If not, deduct another $1500 from that $19-22K estimate, and do those services immediately.

I agree 100%.

Although a salvaged 94 could be worth up to $25,000 according to the pricing guide I feel that with unknown service history and high miles it's closer towards $18-20K.

Since the clutch is done and it has a 6-speed I'll bump that up to $20-22K--maaaaybe 23K--right above where Ken put you. Body kits, lambo doors and dash kits add ZERO value.

I would only purchase this vehicle if you think it "might have been built for you in mind" if you know what I mean--IOW you love it and want to stay in the low $20K range. But if you're willing to spend 28-30K there are many, many pristine, low-mileage babied 91-94 cars available. Or, since you don't mind the mileage, spend $35-40K and get a high-mileage, well maintained 97+.

And make sure you get that frame/body looked if you buy this 94. Also, check the alignment. Many times you'll find bent A-arms in front end wrecks. They're not cheap so the mechanic will play w/ the alignment numbers to compensate and make the car driveable again resulting in waaay out of whack alignment numbers. You might not be able to tell by driving the car normally--if the alignment shop was good.

And because a wheel(s) was damaged in the accident (most surely since Ken caught that 99 wheel substitution) I'm willing to bet there's some serious issues in that area. I'm sure the car is very nice and you may call me a naysayer but I've seen this type of car listed many times before (modded car, painted, accident histories) and it almost always turns out worse than you think.

 

[Patricio]

thanks guys,

Nice, I guess that really covers all my questions. I may consider a 97+ with lots of miles. I just dont like leaving cars in the garage or thinking I dont want to take it for a long ride cause of miles added.

Cars are meant to be driven. I always buy whatever I can afford to beat the piss out of.

Just had my hopes up especially scince it is local. that would save me the time of running arund looking for something else but I guess thats what im going to have to do.

thanks
patricio

 

[The Kid]

The lambo doors would be enough for me to just walk away. It bothers me worse than the carfax. They belong only on Lambo's, hence the name "LAMBO" doors. It affects the structural integrity and they wont hold up in years to come. Whats a "rubber" body kit?

 

[Patricio]

Re: Help finding car in PA

rubber? I ment wings west polyurethane kit. I dont like fiberglass it cracks and so on. I am looking for a car that will not be the shop for anything but scheduled maintnance. Thats why im lm looking for an NSX I dont think there is another car on earth that performs so reliably. And doesent get old.

Just out of curiosity I know its not the most important subject but how much HP/Tq would a I/H/E/chip make? what diffrence would this make 0-60 and 1/4mi and would it make a diffrence between 91,92,93,94?

should I definatly be looking for 93+ or is the only issue the snap ring on pre 93 cars any performance diffrences?

also how much better handeling with a set of TEIN or comparable coilovers and wider wheels tires

interesting theres a lot of previous salvaged NSXs out there I just ran a handful of vins for sale and 1/3 came back previous salvage.

 

[Vendetta]

Re: Help finding car in PA

Just out of curiosity I know its not the most important subject but how much HP/Tq would a I/H/E/chip make? what diffrence would this make 0-60 and 1/4mi and would it make a diffrence between 91,92,93,94?

should I definatly be looking for 93+ or is the only issue the snap ring on pre 93 cars any performance diffrences?

Header makes a HUGE difference. Search and you'll see that some cars are gaining 15-20 WHP on them. Short gears are also another popular mod people with 5-speeds are doing. Makes a difference in seat of the pants accelleration.

Not all 92's have snap ring trannies. Mine doesn't...posted somewhere here on prime, there is a list of tranny serial numbers to look out for. You can see the tranny serial number from the engine bay.

 

[Jay444]

no real performance difference between 91-94...

Check the FAQ's...lots of useful info there that will help you determine which year is best for you...

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/General/changesbyyear.htm

 

[nsxtasy]

the guy claims the belts were done in the 70 range by previous owner but who knows.?

You could try asking at the dealer(s) who might have done it. For example, Davis Acura in Langhorne does a lot of the NSX service work in eastern PA; maybe they have a record of it.

Another question does the new 6-speed included add value to the car?

No, IMHO.

I guess my question would be should I even be considering this car at all?

That's entirely up to you. Consider it if it's exactly what you are looking for.

For me it is more of getting the right deal and I dont nessecarily want to pay premium for very low miles because I drive the piss out of anything I own and dont mind the maintnance. It will be a daily driver along with my X5 BMW. What mileage range/year price would you guys recomend? taking depreciation and maintnace into account.

Well, you pay more for lower miles, less for higher miles. If you are going to put a lot of miles on the car, you may as well get a high-mileage car and save the money. NSXs average a median of 5K miles per year, so consider getting one with significantly more than that. You can typically get high-mileage '91-94 coupes for upper twenties, high-mileage '95-96 NSX-Ts for mid thirties, and high-mileage '97+ NSX-Ts for low forties. It's up to you whether it's worth paying more for the removable top of a '95 and up, or for the higher horsepower of a '97 and up.

I figured the gotta haves for me are the manual, aero kit in rubber, some nice 18/19 staggerd wheels, exhaust, intake, chip. painted roof. Thats what my car will have within a month of buying a stock one.

Some of those mods (chip) are useless and others (aero kit and possibly the oversized wheels, and the painted roof if it's not done well) reduce the market value of the car (by making it more difficult to sell). Go ahead and make those mods if you like - hey, it's your car, do whatever you want with it - but if you're interested in market value, then you would be better off not doing them (or buying a car that has already had those mods done, so the previous owner can take the hit in market value).

I would only purchase this vehicle if you think it "might have been built for you in mind" if you know what I mean--IOW you love it and want to stay in the low $20K range.

Well said.

if you're willing to spend 28-30K there are many, many pristine, low-mileage babied 91-94 cars available.

I would disagree, but make the same statement for the $32-35K range. In the $28-30K range, you will find good condition (not pristine, but good condition) higher-mileage cars.

Or, since you don't mind the mileage, spend $35-40K and get a high-mileage, well maintained 97+.

Again, those are tough to find in that price range, but fairly easy in the low forties.

I'm sure the car is very nice and you may call me a naysayer but I've seen this type of car listed many times before (modded car, painted, accident histories) and it almost always turns out worse than you think.

Again, well said.

Just out of curiosity I know its not the most important subject but how much HP/Tq would a I/H/E/chip make? what diffrence would this make 0-60 and 1/4mi and would it make a diffrence between 91,92,93,94?

The chip won't add much and the intake won't add anything. Headers and exhaust can cut as much as three tenths off the typical 0-60 and 1/4 mile times of 5.3 and 13.8.

should I definatly be looking for 93+ or is the only issue the snap ring on pre 93 cars any performance diffrences?

There are no performance differences among the '91-94. Some might claim one for the slightly larger wheels of the '94 but it's not significant.

Again, I would not worry about the snap ring issue.

One other issue to look out for on the '91-93 is whether the window regulators have been upgraded or replaced. If not, you can buy and install an inexpensive part to do so, which will prevent having to replace the regulators. Read more in the FAQ under Troubleshooting - Power Windows.

also how much better handeling with a set of TEIN or comparable coilovers and wider wheels tires

That's debatable. The stock suspension is actually very, very good. However, older cars may have worn shocks. I replaced my worn shocks with Bilsteins, with the original stock springs and swaybars, and I think it handles great.

When it comes to wheels and tires, the kind of tires you choose is very important, and tire availability is a big consideration. Get 18" and 19" wheels and you will degrade the handling a lot, not just because of the wheel and tire size, but also because the best tires available are not available in the proper sizes you would need. If you're looking for the best handling, get 17" and 18" wheels, and you'll find a lot of great tires available in 215/40-17 and 265/35-18, including the Goodyear F1 GS-D3, Falken Azenis RT-615, etc.

interesting theres a lot of previous salvaged NSXs out there I just ran a handful of vins for sale and 1/3 came back previous salvage.

Then you're shopping on the wrong websites. (eBay, perhaps?) The best selection of well-cared-for used NSXs is right here on NSXprime. Big sites like Autotrader and cars.com have a lot, although they tend to be predominantly dealer listings (not that there's anything wrong with that).

 

[Patricio]

I agree with everything said and never expected all of my answers to be so well answerd. Thanks again ill will keep as much as possible in mind.

The prices you mentioned are correct 40-45 for 97+ and 30-35 for really nice early model with decent miles. They are definatly hard to find. but scince I will definatly be doing modifications to the car that are not good for resale I should look for a really high milage car thats already been modded.

thanks again

 

[SFMarine0311]

Keeping in mind it has the 6sp i'd definitely approve it for the 20k range..the lambo doors do not add any value...so i wouldn't even add it in. Most people who buy a car want it to be un modded as possible. but hey if it drives fine and you get it checked out by a reputable body shop(preferably nsx oriented) you should be good to go my friend!

 

[Patricio]

guys not budging off 27k scince all mods are basically still new, the car has only been modded for 3,000miles paint interior navigation all brand new. but all the major repairs were done around 15k ago in 2003

Many of the cars iv been seeing over 80k mi are coming up with previous salvage. it seems like a new transmission sounds like value of $4000 or so more and a new clutch mabe another $2000 or so. I mean ive bought a sold a few cars and although when im buying I say mods dont add up but in reality Ive sold cars and gotten at least 25% back of mods done. In this case its not just a 6-speed upgrade its a newer tranny. If you were in my shoes looking for the same aero kit and painted roof which that would cost me another 3-4k or so even though he spent 12k or more lets say that 7k of that I appreciate and is still new so would that justify 25k price mabe. And its local meaning Im not gonna waste days and hours and travel money looking for something else isent that alone worth 2-3k

Im not really trying to justify getting the car im just trying to get a good feeling of how these cars do on the market.

all your views are appreciated.

Im intrested in knowing how you guys found and how many cars did you look at before finding the one (im doing a sepearate post for that)

 

[johnny010]

Here is how we do it in the insurance world:

1) deduct 20 to 25 % since it is prior salvage (you did state that the title is clean though, so that is confusing me a bit).

2) add roughly 15% for mods to this car. Some cars bring a little more of $$, say up to 30% if they are properly done and there is a market for them; however, most NSX'r find LAMBO doors to be cheesy. (you could also do 30% increase for the header, 5% for the lambo doors etc on paper to get a good number)...If you like lambo doors, maybe it is worth it to you to add 30% of the cost of the mods (just might have to hold out longer when you sell it to recoup that amt you are adding to the value).

So take NADA, deduct 25% for being a prior total (only if the repairs were done properly), add back 15 to 30% of the mod value, and I would say you have a great finishing point.

One think I would point out is that in my field, the 25% deduction is a rule of thumb since most veh's have front mount engines, and steel frames (not aluminum ---- so I would probably take that into consideration).

And one more note, not many shops can work on aluminums cars effectively. I just totalled out a 2005 Ford GT b/c there weren't any shops that could do the aluminum work properly, and I live in Houston. We had an NSX come through once that had been keyed, and we replaced all the panels b/c the shop wasn't able to repair them properly (big hint to have this car check out before purchasing).

If, once you get it in the air and confirm the work was done properly (most likely the parts were replaced, not repaired), I would go for it if you are impressed with the car.

Good luck,

JM

: also, 93 up have the pass side airbag, and upgraded air conditioner.

--------------
Personally, if the car is strong, no excessive cowl shake, the steering is right on, and all of the parts line up, an unrepaired scrape on the underside/inside really doesn't matter!

 

[Patricio]

everyone keeps brining up the lambo doors again i usually hate them so i will probably ebay the kit for 1500 or so new its 2500 shipped for this car. somone will like it. but in actuality I would have to admit this car is a an exotic and just like other cosmetic mods that make it more exotic if there is one car in existence that would be legaly alowed to do the lambo doors i must admit this body fits the look and era. I think if there werent ricers out there putting this kit on civics and focuses the opinon could be diffrent at least my eyes it would. the parts i like is the wings west kit the navigation the 6-speed and the clutch.


***
johnny010
1) deduct 20 to 25 % since it is prior salvage (you did state that the title is clean though, so that is confusing me a bit).
***

I know its weird but the title is clean title not rebuild or salvage but carfax shows salvage title issued in 2003. mabe previous owner applied for maryland revision and approval ive heard of this done on cars leagally. through certified body shops or something im not new to the car game and have heard of this. not sure how it works over here on the east coast.
and johnny do you use NADA private value or retail. for that calculation

 

[SFMarine0311]

Now from what i heard...if the car underwent the accident in say alabama...totaled and rebuilt... aka salvage title. Then sold to a different state hence pa. The title then becomes clear again.. I had a car it was prior salvage but the title is not purple it's regular..insurance company insured me full coverage..so if i wrecked, i'd gain about 6k than what i paid.. lol If anyone can elaborate on this that would be greatly appreciated i'm sure!

 

[NSXGMS]

everyone keeps brining up the lambo doors again i usually hate them so i will probably ebay the kit for 1500 or so new its 2500 shipped for this car. somone will like it. but in actuality I would have to admit this car is a an exotic and just like other cosmetic mods that make it more exotic if there is one car in existence that would be legaly alowed to do the lambo doors i must admit this body fits the look and era.

I have the Lambo doors and I like them very much. Do I think they look cool? Yes. Do most Prime members think they're cool? No. (Although I have many more sincere [apparently] compliments than criticisms about them in person.) Does it subtract overall value? Yes.

The Lambo/scissor doors are totally a personal taste mod. Keep in mind I did mucho research on them before I found the kit I installed. 90% of these kits are Crappola--note the capital "C".

I would not assign it any value whatsoever and if the seller doesn't have the OEM brackets to convert back to stock I would deduct even more $ from the value.

There are a ton of these crap kits on Ebay already for the cheap so don't plan on selling a used one for much.

And thanks for bringing be back to reality on the prices, Ken. These darn NSXs just don't depreciate fast enough...:biggrin:

I was actually referring to a 97 with REALLY high miles for $35-40K:tongue:

 

[NSXGMS]

Now from what i heard...if the car underwent the accident in say alabama...totaled and rebuilt... aka salvage title. Then sold to a different state hence pa. The title then becomes clear again.. I had a car it was prior salvage but the title is not purple it's regular..insurance company insured me full coverage..so if i wrecked, i'd gain about 6k than what i paid.. lol If anyone can elaborate on this that would be greatly appreciated i'm sure!

AFAIK this phenomenon was occurring primarily in Fla. for a long time. I believe things have changed in the last few years, however. As long as the newly imported, registered car passed some basic goofy inspection the state would issue a totally "clean" title on it.

Kinda scary actually. Anyone who knows more might chime in here...

 

[nsxtasy]

guys not budging off 27k scince all mods are basically still new, the car has only been modded for 3,000miles paint interior navigation all brand new.

He can give you whatever reasons he wants, but that doesn't make the car worth the market value he's quoting. (Both buyers and sellers do this all the time, either as a negotiating tactic using statements they don't really believe, or because they have convinced themselves that the car's market value is different from what it really is.)

If you were in my shoes looking for the same aero kit and painted roof which that would cost me another 3-4k or so even though he spent 12k or more lets say that 7k of that I appreciate and is still new so would that justify 25k price mabe.

It depends on how you look at it. There are basically two different ways of thinking about this:

1. If you are asking whether this car's market value is worth $25K - meaning, could this car likely be re-sold within 4-6 weeks for that amount - IMHO the answer is no, the car is not worth $25K. If you had to sell it, you would probably get the same $19-22K we've already mentioned here (and that $22K figure is really optimistic).

2. However, it sounds like (just using some hypothetical numbers) you're willing to go out and buy a high-mileage decent-condition early NSX for $27-28K, and spend another $3-4K on mods that will reduce its market value to $25-26K. In other words, you're willing to spend $30-32K for a car whose market value is $25-26K. Would you be better off instead spending $25-27K for a car whose market value is $19-22K? That makes it more of a toss-up, since you're losing around $5-6K in market value either way.

1) deduct 20 to 25 % since it is prior salvage

That's probably a fair rule of thumb. So a car like this, that might otherwise sell for $23-27K if it hadn't been previously wrecked and totalled, is instead worth $19-22K.

I was actually referring to a 97 with REALLY high miles for $35-40K:tongue:

That's possible. Median mileage on '97s is around 45K miles. So one with, say, 75K miles is above average and might sell in the low forties, but one with 125K miles is also above average and might sell in the high thirties as you note.

Of course, estimating value is not an exact science, and a lot of variables come into play (i.e. there's usually a difference between asking price and the price that a seller is willing to sell for, you might find a car selling for less than a hypothetical market value for various reasons, you might find a buyer unwilling to sell for a price that's higher than a hypothetical market value, etc).

 

[Patricio]

2. However, it sounds like (just using some hypothetical numbers) you're willing to go out and buy a high-mileage decent-condition early NSX for $27-28K, and spend another $3-4K on mods that will reduce its market value to $25-26K. In other words, you're willing to spend $30-32K for a car whose market value is $25-26K. Would you be better off instead spending $25-27K for a car whose market value is $19-22K? That makes it more of a toss-up, since you're losing around $5-6K in market value either way.

well said,

I guess if either way im losing 5k that doesent really bother me. If I bought a 996 I would lose 5-6k over 3 years in depriciation anyway (997 gets cheaper= trade) at least with the NSX I doubt depreciation is any where ahead. so the 5k would be equal tipcal depreciation. theres gotta be some price to pay its not like cars a are a good investment or anything. ill probably never get rid of it anyway its becoming more and more rare and guaranteed to be a classic. I belive when cars are new there all hot when its 10 years old and you still gotta have one that feeling will never change.

Now from what i heard...if the car underwent the accident in say alabama...totaled and rebuilt... aka salvage title. Then sold to a different state hence pa. The title then becomes clear again.. I had a car it was prior salvage but the title is not purple it's regular..insurance company insured me full coverage..so if i wrecked, i'd gain about 6k than what i paid.. lol If anyone can elaborate on this that would be greatly appreciated i'm sure!

The bright side is since the title has been cleaned, in case of theft or crash I make out pretty well in th 33k range thats more comfortable than having to argue with insurance just to break even. make 7k profit. thats makes it less worry some about parking in the city especially scince Im in the city of brotherly love :biggrin: