Has anyone had issues with Downforce double din console warping ???

[Erik B]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

Hello everyone,

Welcome to the world of R&D and new product development for custom parts. Guys I am really sorry for this unforeseen matter. We tested and did A lot of R&D on this product it took me nearly 2 years to get a final product to market. The cause of this is 2 factors. First we never cut any prototype consoles to fit a double din just a single deck head unit. Second the NSX dash is a snug fit for the console and with heat making the plastic malleable is a recipe for warping. I Hope all of SOS and DF's customers know that a professional resolution will be available really soon. I know that the consoles demand a higher price tag than normal on the customer's end but, I hope you will step in our shoes as well and see that our cost are much higher and the risk factor is greater when dealing with new processes and materials. This does not discourage us so I hope you feel the same. SOS has sent me a console with this problem and a fix is already in the works to repair and stabilize this issue. All I ask is for a little patients and a reasonable open mind. Last thing guys I know SOS is very fair in the customer satisfaction end of things when they are quiet and seem like they don't have an answer its because they probably don't and they are concentrating on getting one as I am doing at the moment. Thanks and lots of exciting products on the way. :biggrin:

Thanks for that reply!!!!

Erik B: who is still looking forward to the CF double din :smile:

 

[repin jerz]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

I spoke to Jeff at SOS today, he claims there's a fix in the making coming from DF in the next several weeks. Apparently, a bracket that's supposed to be mounted behind the console and attached by adhesive to keep the thin strips straight. This item will be offered for all new console orders, and free for all previous orders. You have to call them and put your name on the "list".

 

[ChopsJazz]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

Hello everyone,

Welcome to the world of R&D and new product development for custom parts. Guys I am really sorry for this unforeseen matter. We tested and did A lot of R&D on this product it took me nearly 2 years to get a final product to market. The cause of this is 2 factors. First we never cut any prototype consoles to fit a double din just a single deck head unit. Second the NSX dash is a snug fit for the console and with heat making the plastic malleable is a recipe for warping. I Hope all of SOS and DF's customers know that a professional resolution will be available really soon. I know that the consoles demand a higher price tag than normal on the customer's end but, I hope you will step in our shoes as well and see that our cost are much higher and the risk factor is greater when dealing with new processes and materials. This does not discourage us so I hope you feel the same. SOS has sent me a console with this problem and a fix is already in the works to repair and stabilize this issue. All I ask is for a little patients and a reasonable open mind. Last thing guys I know SOS is very fair in the customer satisfaction end of things when they are quiet and seem like they don't have an answer its because they probably don't and they are concentrating on getting one as I am doing at the moment. Thanks and lots of exciting products on the way. :biggrin:

This just doesn't sound reasonable for a customer to pay high market prices for your R&D. If the "R" part of the R&D were done extensively this problem and it's resolution would have revealed itself and perhaps your $500+ price tag might be worth it to your customers.

Of course it doesn't discourage you, you're being paid while your products are prone to failure.

IMO, you should reinforce all your existing stock and send out new reinforced consoles to anyone who has paid $500+ for your old failure-prone piece. That would be a professional resolution.

If it were my money that I'd already spent, I would expect to be compensated immediately. My patience would have run out.

my .02

 

[Juice]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

This just doesn't sound reasonable for a customer to pay high market prices for your R&D. If the "R" part of the R&D were done extensively this problem and it's resolution would have revealed itself and perhaps your $500+ price tag might be worth it to your customers.

Of course it doesn't discourage you, you're being paid while your products are prone to failure.

IMO, you should reinforce all your existing stock and send out new reinforced consoles to anyone who has paid $500+ for your old failure-prone piece. That would be a professional resolution.

If it were my money that I'd already spent, I would expect to be compensated immediately. My patience would have run out.

my .02

On the other hand, we have a vendor here who has been made aware of the problem and is taking steps to correct the problem and get a better product into buyers hands. Every product on the market goes out with unforeseen problems, including your beloved NSX. Snapring mean anything to you? I for one am glad that there are still some vendors in the NSX community that aren't out to blatantly rob their customers. Most suppliers to this community would not even respond to this concern and leave it to the individual to figure out what to do next.

I am in no way trying to defend or justify DF selling an obviously flawed product, but the ridicule and criticism here is pretty extreme. Is the glass half empty, or half full? FFT.

Regards,

Josh

 

[ChopsJazz]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

I am in no way trying to defend or justify DF selling an obviously flawed product, but the ridicule and criticism here is pretty extreme. Is the glass half empty, or half full? FFT.

Regards,

Josh

I ridiculed no one. I am responding to what seems in my opinion to be flawed business practice in charging exorbitant prices and asking for patience for a failed product. At those prices they should make it right.

BTW, yes the snap ring problem means something to me. Car makers, like Honda, have recalls to fix just such problems.

 

[Neke1point0]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

All it comes down to is this,

We have been very polite, professional and patient with SOS but our patience can only go so far. We purchased a high priced plastic center console @ $600. We or anyone else with this same issue should not be responsble to"fix/modify" to make this work @ $600ea. This happened in LESS THAN a month not years !

I have been in contact with SOS and have been ignored on my reqest for a exhange over and over again. NOT A RETURN an EXCHANGE. I was told they could put me on the "list" for this reenforcement piece once they are made, but again, my request for the exchange was dodged.

No way would i give this treatment to my customers, ESPECIALLY over a $600 center console in these economic times...

The console has no weight resting on it at all, it is simply a trim piece. These statements saying the "preload" was the cause isnt a factual statement what so ever. Its a design flaw and thats the bottom line.

For the consumers, to be the R&D testers is rediculous. Considering this happened to us within a month of purchase im curious on what R&D process took place.

Finally, If we wouldve know all of this prior to purchasing we wouldve looked into other options for mounting our DD navigation and not have dealt with SOS.

...and on top of that we have 4 NSXs we are displaying at a major car show in 2 weeks ! Its looking like we may have to drop the number to 3. This console is def not show worthy.

 

[DocL]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

...and on top of that we have 4 NSXs we are displaying at a major car show in 2 weeks ! Its looking like we may have to drop the number to 3. This console is def not show worthy.

Actually, I would have a sign on the car showing how poor quality products should be avoided when doing a custom stereo install.

 

[syam]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

although i understand your frustration, i do not believe that SOS or downforce will issue you a replacement console just yet because the problem has not been fixed. they are doing what they can to remedy the problem that exists now, and when the reinforcement place is finished, it will be added to the console purchase.

now i agree with you, that when the reinforcement piece is ready, that you and all previous customers who have purchased the console and have experienced the warping issue (it seems like everyone will eventually due to the design and materials used) should be entitled to a complete replacement piece contingent on you sending your warped piece back for an 'in house' repair, and those repaired consoles being sold down the line at a price reduction as a 'used' part.

i feel as though this is the most fair and responsible solution, but being a third party and not being one who has purchased the console and had the warping problem, i guess my voice has little weight.

 

[Hugh]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

SoS and DownForce are two of the most reputable and customer service oriented companies in the NSX community. I know this because I have more miles/hours in an NSX and any 5 of you combined and have been doing business with Chris for years and DF since they opened their doors.

If he says he's working with DF on the problem, then that's exactly what he's doing. Take a deep breath, relax and let these gentlemen work on the problem, fix the problem and service you, their customers.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

Actually, I would have a sign on the car showing how poor quality products should be avoided when doing a custom stereo install.

Good angle on that.
Would you go so far as to make a sign giving the name of the company that provided said products?

 

[Hugh]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

Good angle on that.
Would you go so far as to make a sign giving the name of the company that provided said products?

You know how fighter planes have little images of the enemy's flag representing planes shot down? Well DocL has a bunch of little farm animal faces x'ed out on the sides of his car. :biggrin:

 

[docjohn]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

If you would not mind my observation from an innocent bystander.SoS is a vendor of a flawed DF product.This senario is not uncommon in sales.There is always going to be 3 ways to take care of it :the manufacturers way(DF) the stores way (SoS) and the customers way.Legaly it depends on how the warranty language is written as to the relief each party has,but as a long time member here for those new members who don't know the players,and see all sorts of rip off threads on prime ect...I've known Chris and Sos for many years,he is not going anywhere,he practices good business,has stayed in business,and cares about the nsx community.I'm sure he is kicking himself for letting this one slip by.

 

[SDM214]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

Any updates to this? I was planning on order the center console today and now I'm hesitant. Have they resolved the issue?

Also...when you ordered your consoles did you have them cut or cut them yourself? I'm afraid to order it precut even though I am using the same pioneer radio/nav that they did.

 

[YellowHaze]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

If you would not mind my observation from an innocent bystander.SoS is a vendor of a flawed DF product.This senario is not uncommon in sales.There is always going to be 3 ways to take care of it :the manufacturers way(DF) the stores way (SoS) and the customers way.Legaly it depends on how the warranty language is written as to the relief each party has,but as a long time member here for those new members who don't know the players,and see all sorts of rip off threads on prime ect...I've known Chris and Sos for many years,he is not going anywhere,he practices good business,has stayed in business,and cares about the nsx community.I'm sure he is kicking himself for letting this one slip by.

Docjohn makes a good point. As an unbiased party, I empathize with those who have a defective part. I'd want and expect a timely and acceptable solution offered to me if I were in this situation. My personal opinion of SOS and DF is favorable. One can do much worse in dealing with other companies with questionable customer service and/or a lack of good ethics and principles.

IMO, DF and SOS need to reach a mutual agreement between themselves and take care of their customers with bad parts quickly. If that means a refund until a proper solution is determined, so be it. "Passing the buck" or expecting one to drive their NSX with a damaged console for more than one month should not be an option.

I have a lot of respect for DF and SOS. Sorry to both companies if I come across as unsympathetic.

 

[MAG]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

I purchased the new version, and plan to install it next week.

 

[Mikevd]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

I've allready installed the new version of the console. I recieved mine (with a double DIN cut), with two metal rods epoxied in. Both metal rods are approx. 3mm diameter. The whole thing seemed very sturdy to me. Time will tell if it actually is. One interesting thing I noticed, the cuts are made after glueing the rods in place, since the laser (or whatever they are using) actually cut a little bit of the metal rod along with the plastic.

 

[scorp965]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

I've allready installed the new version of the console. I recieved mine (with a double DIN cut), with two metal rods epoxied in. Both metal rods are approx. 3mm diameter. The whole thing seemed very sturdy to me. Time will tell if it actually is. One interesting thing I noticed, the cuts are made after glueing the rods in place, since the laser (or whatever they are using) actually cut a little bit of the metal rod along with the plastic.

If the construction of the part is prone to warping, then simply reinforcing the section most prone to this warping will not eliminate the issue, perhaps it will serve only as a band-aid solution to postpone symptoms of warping.

I imagine a true solution would involve a different construction (different material which will not soften/melt until much higher temperatures), rather than simply gluing two metal sticks onto the back of a defective part.

 

[repin jerz]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

Here are some pics of my warping console. To be honest, the double din cut wasn't all that precise from the very beginning. They could have done a better job by rounding out the edges for a cleaner look.

Although SOS has offered to "fix" this problem, I've decided not to bother. I would have to send the console out to Downforce (at my cost) to have them install the brackets to reinforce the strips. I don't believe this will fix the problem entirely and to my standards. So I'll just chalk this event up to a $500 lesson learned. The material they use to manufacture these consoles is just too soft and flexible in my opinion.

 

[swerve2007]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

that sucks.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

hi guys --

I thought this had been convered previously, however, I can not find the information online.

To anyone with any of the early consoles, Downforce has manufactured steel inserts that get bonded into the console for reinforcement. We are offering free shipping both to Downforce, and then to ship from Downforce (within the states) to cover this. Just to review, the installation guides that shipped with the consoles did recommend for the console to be reinforced prior to installation. However, since installers were not doing this, we have decided to ship all consoles with reinforcement already in place.

If you have any questions, please let us know. We're happy to help.

regards,
-- Chris

 

[nsxpowered]

I am sorry but I thought this matter was already resolved. Is there still a problem?

 

[nsxpowered]

We made a few consoles testing the plastic and this was the best and closest resin to the ABS plastic. If I went with the higher temp, it would be very brittle, the reason why the console warped is because the consoles are being pushed inwards constantly by sitting in the dash. When the heat is applied it will put more stress on the plastic.

Sam had fixed what I thought was all of the consoles sold so if yours was never fixed we can fix it. The single dins do not have this problem and the new consoles are preset to avoid this problem.

So if there are any new problems that I am not aware of please let me know.

 

[nsxpowered]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

If the construction of the part is prone to warping, then simply reinforcing the section most prone to this warping will not eliminate the issue, perhaps it will serve only as a band-aid solution to postpone symptoms of warping.

I imagine a true solution would involve a different construction (different material which will not soften/melt until much higher temperatures), rather than simply gluing two metal sticks onto the back of a defective part.

John this is not a band-aid solution. It is a matter of structural engineering. The forces on the console is a constant 3-5 lbs on that thin strip. Even with the higher temp plastic it will bend. I hope you guys notice on older NSXs that even the factory consoles bow outwards very slightly between the climate control and radio borders. You can compare a newer NSX will not have that same lift on that section. To test your NSX press the console on your NSX and see if there is any play. A new NSX has no play at all. The only way to counter this is to use a hybrid material with different properties which in this case is stainless steel. This fix addresses this specific problem so why would this be called a band-aid fix? Your post implies that this solution does not work.

This console was designed for a single DIN so it is not a defective part. If a double DIN is put in, then the borders are very thin to where it would warp under heat and physical force, even in SOS's instruction it was stated that a reinforcement was needed to be added for the double DIN installation.

All of the consoles with the stainless steel reinforcements do not have this problem at all. If you do please share so we can resolve it.

 

[mdcfab]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

If the construction of the part is prone to warping, then simply reinforcing the section most prone to this warping will not eliminate the issue, perhaps it will serve only as a band-aid solution to postpone symptoms of warping.

I imagine a true solution would involve a different construction (different material which will not soften/melt until much higher temperatures), rather than simply gluing two metal sticks onto the back of a defective part.

Thanks for your input but, that is exactly why we used 2 metal rods they can withstand a lot higher heat and tension than the super thin piece of plastic that is left after machining out a huge cut out. so this is a permanent fix not a band aid. and on the new versions we made that section thicker to withstand the tension and weight of the head unit and the dash board console area squeezing against the console. To my knowledge every one that has purchased this console has been taken care of.

 

[Ko-nsx]

Re: Has anyone had issues with Science of Speed double din console warping ???

Here are some pics of my warping console. To be honest, the double din cut wasn't all that precise from the very beginning. They could have done a better job by rounding out the edges for a cleaner look.

Although SOS has offered to "fix" this problem, I've decided not to bother. I would have to send the console out to Downforce (at my cost) to have them install the brackets to reinforce the strips. I don't believe this will fix the problem entirely and to my standards. So I'll just chalk this event up to a $500 lesson learned. The material they use to manufacture these consoles is just too soft and flexible in my opinion.

I had the exact same problem you did when i got mine installed. We used a heat gun to heat it and straighten it out.