Just wondering, has anybody here spoken w/a dealer in regards of the GT40. Specifically, deposit for placing an order, what they have been told about pricing. Have done some research, however does anyone have direct knowledge. Thanks in advance.
GT40
- Thread starter Tom Larkins
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Number9
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Just spoke with my local dealer (Frontier Ford). They think they will be getting anywhere from 0-2 units (allocation probably depends upon prior sales volume, as in the case of the Z-NSXs). Ford apparently has NOT required its dealers to sell at list (they can't directly require this as a result of antitrust laws but can provide appropriate incentives/disincentives to achieve similar results). Current market premium is thought to be between 30K-60K over MSRP. I hate it when that happens...
I assume they won't quote a MSRP b/c they don't know and they want to make sure they pad their margin. Did they give you anytype of production dates yet ?
i thought ford scrapped the gt40 project because of their financial situation
Number9
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Tom, I asked about MSRP and estimated availability and they didn't have any insight into that. They did indicate that they saw plenty of local demand for the model.
Nicholas, what is the source reference for the cancellation of the project? All the major trade rags had previously indicated that the project was a go and the dealer still seemed to think so as well, though he clearly did not have any insider knowledge about the GT40 plans.
Nicholas, what is the source reference for the cancellation of the project? All the major trade rags had previously indicated that the project was a go and the dealer still seemed to think so as well, though he clearly did not have any insider knowledge about the GT40 plans.
Looking back at some of the articles, they were questioned about its production w/Fords financial problems. However none of the folks in charge of R&D stated such and all was a go. It was intro'd several months ago and if they would have pulled the plug I would have seen it in some of the mags I take. I'm gonna try to go over to a dealer this week and check them out on deposit & how much they are gonna go over the MSRP. It will be interesting to hear what they are thinking in the Kansas City area in comparison to some of the west & east coast markets.
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I think that the new T-bird points the direction for the new car. You may put a deposit on the car, but does the fine print say that the dealer must sell you the car? I recall some FL dealers selling the cars to the highest offer, regardless, and lawsuits. Also, Ford needs to get it's house in order:
LA TIMES:
WIXOM, Mich. -- Rows and rows of newly minted Ford Thunderbirds stand idle, swathed in protective film and ready for delivery -- but going nowhere for now.
Ford Motor Co. hoped that a flawless launch of its new $40,000 T-Bird would help restore a reputation that has been battered over the last year by troubled new model launches and allegations about the safety of its Explorer sport-utility vehicle.
But the company suspended Thunderbird deliveries and was forced to shut down its Wixom Assembly Plant for two weeks after its discovered a defect in an engine cooling system. Ford put the plant back online Thursday but said it would not ship the cars until replacement parts arrive.
The new Thunderbird was meant to evoke memories of one of Ford's most coveted models, the 1950-era two-seat convertible with an optional hardtop roof and round porthole windows. Ford held itself to exacting standards, hoping that a perfect Thunderbird launch would prove it remains one of the industry's best automakers.
Instead, the launch is underscoring the quality problems that have beset the world's No. 2 automaker in recent months and plagued the launch of the three all-new Ford vehicles that preceded it.
The T-Bird was originally due in early summer, but only a handful have been delivered; Ford is intercepting cars in transit to return them to Wixom to replace a faulty cooling fan unit that caused the engines to overheat.
To Ford's credit, analysts said, the company is making every effort to ensure the cars are defect-free when they are finally delivered. The company has gone to great lengths to prove its commitment to quality.
"It's an icon car. We want to make sure it's perfect," said Jason Vines, Ford's vice president of communications.
Since the 1970s, Ford and the rest of the U.S. auto industry has been waging a difficult battle to close the quality gap with foreign companies. Ford, in particular, led the charge by domestic manufacturers to improve quality, but it is now faltering all over again.
"This is clearly a hallmark vehicle, a ãhalo' vehicle. They absolutely cannot afford any quality issues or glitches on it," said Joseph Phillippi, a longtime Wall Street auto industry analyst. "It's absolutely critical that they launch without a hitch. ... To have it fall on its face at its introduction is a major issue."
But it's hardly the only issue Ford faces. The auto maker is stumbling by virtually every yardstick of automotive success: profit, market share, quality, productivity, morale, bonuses, credit rating, public image and relations with dealers, investors and shareholders.
Costly tire replacement programs and lawsuit settlements resulting from the Firestone tire debacle have cost Ford more than $1 billion and wiped out profit in the second quarter. Earlier this month, Ford scaled back its profit outlook for this year and said it would cut as many as 5,000 jobs to try to halt its sinking profitability and market share. This week the company also said it is eliminating bonuses for its 6,000 top white-collar workers.
Ford was forced to halt production of the Thunderbird, begun in July, to fix the overheating problem.
"It's unbelievable. They've never done something like this -- shut down a whole plant -- for the sake of quality," said a worker outside the factory in this town just northwest of Detroit. "Before, they'd just keep making them and then try to fix them later."
As recently as the 1980s and early '90s, automakers were notorious for letting defects through and, then, if problems arose with consumers, let warranties take care of them.
That Ford is taking unprecedented measures with the T-Bird underscores how deeply the company is trying to restore its reputation for workmanship. In a recent survey of new-vehicle buyers by J.D. Power & Associates, Ford fell from third place to seventh -- or last -- in a ranking of the top automakers' initial quality.
Quality and reliability are where Ford is concentrating its efforts to boost sales, which have lagged beyond the slip in the overall U.S. market. Ford's overall volume was down 11.7 percent in the first seven months of this year, while the overall market dipped 4.8 percent.
"There's a renewed intensity on quality at Ford because it's been an area that's led to issues of consumer confidence in Ford vehicles," said Greg Salchow, an automotive analyst with the investment bank Raymond James & Co. in Detroit.
"When you have three, four or five recalls, it creates doubts about the vehicles," he said, referring to troubled launches of the Ford Focus compact car, Escape compact sport-utility vehicle and redesigned 2002 Explorer midsize SUV.
Suppliers are under heavy pressure to assure a flawless launch for the Thunderbird.
At a meeting in mid-March, Ford executives met with scores of top suppliers to the M205 program -- as the Thunderbird is known internally -- for a status report on preparations to the build the car.
A Ford participant at the "M205 Supplier Quality Stand-
down Process Meeting" told at least one supplier that Ford executives were embarrassed even at cocktail parties because of talk of the automaker's problems with vehicle launches -- and that his business with Ford could be threatened if the supplier were involved in a T-Bird recall or launch delay.
Ford representatives at headquarters in Dearborn, Mich., will not identify the supplier behind the Thunderbird stoppage at the plant, a sprawling complex of light-
beige buildings with a forest of ventilation tubes extending from its paint shop.
But workers at the factory say the problem component came from Japan.
"The Japanese sent us a bunch of bogus parts," a worker in a hairnet said through a fence surrounding the facility. "Eight out of 10 were bad; only two were good."
A maintenance worker at the plant, in a separate conversation, said he had been told that the problem was with a hydraulic cooling system imported from Japan.
A tooling problem caused the fan blades to push insufficient air to cool the engine, and hence the overheating, industry sources told the Los Angeles Times.
Inside the plant, however, the mood is upbeat, Wixom worker Kevin Dodd said.
"I'm glad Ford is doing this; it shows they're serious about quality," said Dodd, whose 2002 Explorer was recalled because the rear glass could shatter when the lift gate was shut.
"I went to the dealership and it seemed I was out in two minutes," he said while catching dinner near the plant this week, adding that he takes pride in Ford's willingness to fix problems.
Despite all the downbeat headlines for Ford in the last year, not all the news is bad. Ford had a strong first quarter, the Escape is a hit and the Focus has become the single best-selling vehicle in the world.
The redesigned Explorer, with an optional third row of seats and independent rear suspension, has received positive reviews in the automotive press and was rated highest among six nonluxury SUVs evaluated recently by Consumer Reports.
Many future Thunderbird owners -- who are on waiting lists and in some cases have already paid in full -- are growing ever more impatient, grousing on Internet bulletin boards that their cars are long overdue.
But that's OK with Paul Berkman, a Fullerton, Calif., restaurant owner who has been on his local Ford dealer's waiting list for more than two years. Although he originally had expected to be driving his new red Thunderbird a few weeks ago, he said he's not upset at the delays.
"A lot of buyers wanted it for summer, and now summer is over," he said. "But I guess it's smart that they are getting it all fixed before they put it out.
"I really want my T-bird," Berkman said. "I guess I'd take it even if they delivered it with a seat missing."
LA TIMES:
WIXOM, Mich. -- Rows and rows of newly minted Ford Thunderbirds stand idle, swathed in protective film and ready for delivery -- but going nowhere for now.
Ford Motor Co. hoped that a flawless launch of its new $40,000 T-Bird would help restore a reputation that has been battered over the last year by troubled new model launches and allegations about the safety of its Explorer sport-utility vehicle.
But the company suspended Thunderbird deliveries and was forced to shut down its Wixom Assembly Plant for two weeks after its discovered a defect in an engine cooling system. Ford put the plant back online Thursday but said it would not ship the cars until replacement parts arrive.
The new Thunderbird was meant to evoke memories of one of Ford's most coveted models, the 1950-era two-seat convertible with an optional hardtop roof and round porthole windows. Ford held itself to exacting standards, hoping that a perfect Thunderbird launch would prove it remains one of the industry's best automakers.
Instead, the launch is underscoring the quality problems that have beset the world's No. 2 automaker in recent months and plagued the launch of the three all-new Ford vehicles that preceded it.
The T-Bird was originally due in early summer, but only a handful have been delivered; Ford is intercepting cars in transit to return them to Wixom to replace a faulty cooling fan unit that caused the engines to overheat.
To Ford's credit, analysts said, the company is making every effort to ensure the cars are defect-free when they are finally delivered. The company has gone to great lengths to prove its commitment to quality.
"It's an icon car. We want to make sure it's perfect," said Jason Vines, Ford's vice president of communications.
Since the 1970s, Ford and the rest of the U.S. auto industry has been waging a difficult battle to close the quality gap with foreign companies. Ford, in particular, led the charge by domestic manufacturers to improve quality, but it is now faltering all over again.
"This is clearly a hallmark vehicle, a ãhalo' vehicle. They absolutely cannot afford any quality issues or glitches on it," said Joseph Phillippi, a longtime Wall Street auto industry analyst. "It's absolutely critical that they launch without a hitch. ... To have it fall on its face at its introduction is a major issue."
But it's hardly the only issue Ford faces. The auto maker is stumbling by virtually every yardstick of automotive success: profit, market share, quality, productivity, morale, bonuses, credit rating, public image and relations with dealers, investors and shareholders.
Costly tire replacement programs and lawsuit settlements resulting from the Firestone tire debacle have cost Ford more than $1 billion and wiped out profit in the second quarter. Earlier this month, Ford scaled back its profit outlook for this year and said it would cut as many as 5,000 jobs to try to halt its sinking profitability and market share. This week the company also said it is eliminating bonuses for its 6,000 top white-collar workers.
Ford was forced to halt production of the Thunderbird, begun in July, to fix the overheating problem.
"It's unbelievable. They've never done something like this -- shut down a whole plant -- for the sake of quality," said a worker outside the factory in this town just northwest of Detroit. "Before, they'd just keep making them and then try to fix them later."
As recently as the 1980s and early '90s, automakers were notorious for letting defects through and, then, if problems arose with consumers, let warranties take care of them.
That Ford is taking unprecedented measures with the T-Bird underscores how deeply the company is trying to restore its reputation for workmanship. In a recent survey of new-vehicle buyers by J.D. Power & Associates, Ford fell from third place to seventh -- or last -- in a ranking of the top automakers' initial quality.
Quality and reliability are where Ford is concentrating its efforts to boost sales, which have lagged beyond the slip in the overall U.S. market. Ford's overall volume was down 11.7 percent in the first seven months of this year, while the overall market dipped 4.8 percent.
"There's a renewed intensity on quality at Ford because it's been an area that's led to issues of consumer confidence in Ford vehicles," said Greg Salchow, an automotive analyst with the investment bank Raymond James & Co. in Detroit.
"When you have three, four or five recalls, it creates doubts about the vehicles," he said, referring to troubled launches of the Ford Focus compact car, Escape compact sport-utility vehicle and redesigned 2002 Explorer midsize SUV.
Suppliers are under heavy pressure to assure a flawless launch for the Thunderbird.
At a meeting in mid-March, Ford executives met with scores of top suppliers to the M205 program -- as the Thunderbird is known internally -- for a status report on preparations to the build the car.
A Ford participant at the "M205 Supplier Quality Stand-
down Process Meeting" told at least one supplier that Ford executives were embarrassed even at cocktail parties because of talk of the automaker's problems with vehicle launches -- and that his business with Ford could be threatened if the supplier were involved in a T-Bird recall or launch delay.
Ford representatives at headquarters in Dearborn, Mich., will not identify the supplier behind the Thunderbird stoppage at the plant, a sprawling complex of light-
beige buildings with a forest of ventilation tubes extending from its paint shop.
But workers at the factory say the problem component came from Japan.
"The Japanese sent us a bunch of bogus parts," a worker in a hairnet said through a fence surrounding the facility. "Eight out of 10 were bad; only two were good."
A maintenance worker at the plant, in a separate conversation, said he had been told that the problem was with a hydraulic cooling system imported from Japan.
A tooling problem caused the fan blades to push insufficient air to cool the engine, and hence the overheating, industry sources told the Los Angeles Times.
Inside the plant, however, the mood is upbeat, Wixom worker Kevin Dodd said.
"I'm glad Ford is doing this; it shows they're serious about quality," said Dodd, whose 2002 Explorer was recalled because the rear glass could shatter when the lift gate was shut.
"I went to the dealership and it seemed I was out in two minutes," he said while catching dinner near the plant this week, adding that he takes pride in Ford's willingness to fix problems.
Despite all the downbeat headlines for Ford in the last year, not all the news is bad. Ford had a strong first quarter, the Escape is a hit and the Focus has become the single best-selling vehicle in the world.
The redesigned Explorer, with an optional third row of seats and independent rear suspension, has received positive reviews in the automotive press and was rated highest among six nonluxury SUVs evaluated recently by Consumer Reports.
Many future Thunderbird owners -- who are on waiting lists and in some cases have already paid in full -- are growing ever more impatient, grousing on Internet bulletin boards that their cars are long overdue.
But that's OK with Paul Berkman, a Fullerton, Calif., restaurant owner who has been on his local Ford dealer's waiting list for more than two years. Although he originally had expected to be driving his new red Thunderbird a few weeks ago, he said he's not upset at the delays.
"A lot of buyers wanted it for summer, and now summer is over," he said. "But I guess it's smart that they are getting it all fixed before they put it out.
"I really want my T-bird," Berkman said. "I guess I'd take it even if they delivered it with a seat missing."
Spoke with the sales manager of the #2 selling Ford Dealer in Kansas City this morning. He said that the last he heard was 300 were to be produced and to be shipped to the top 300 dealerships in the country only. An individual offered to give them a deposit of $100k recently and they told him not to do so b/c they were not gonna get one as they were #320 in the country. If they did the owner was gonna take it as is the case with others in the country for the most part. He indicated that he heard of some pre-sales @ $140k however you had better know someone to get one. LOL
I was told by a usually reliable source (a Ford Motorsports guy) that they were effectively sold out before anyone in the general public had any chance of buying one.
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Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page
"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates
------------------
Andrew Henderson
The NSX Model List Page
"We have long acknowledged that enthusiasm for things automotive is a sure
sign of emotional instability if not outright dementia" - Brock Yates
Now, why? I would produce 1000 or more if the market's demand is this high. It is still a Ford not an F50 or a McLaren F1 that gaing by the fact of being very low producted and even at that price (around 100'000$) we are not in the super exotic range anyway... add to this that Ford is not going very well... GT40 would be free advertising for them!
not very af-'ford'able, is it?!
Perhaps it's got something to do with the notion the first gen GT40 (LeMans Spec Ver. I'm referring to) DOMINATED LeMAns in the late 60's, and the only American car to have ever beaten Ferraris and Porsches, (not exactly sure about this, ICBW) so I assume it has some historical racing heritage value or whatnot.....
[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 24 September 2002).]
I was not saying that the GT40 is a bad car (I know how good they were!). I was asking why to produce only so few exemplars at that price (high but not THAT HIGH...)?
Speaking of GT40's... I saw my first real GT40 (classic), in person, at the Acura Palos Verdes Concours d'Elegance on Sunday! WOW! Those things are beautiful!
Originally posted by gheba_nsx:
I was not saying that the GT40 is a bad car (I know how good they were!). I was asking why to produce only so few exemplars at that price (high but not THAT HIGH...)?
Ford knows the hi $ car market is soft in the US right now and they can't take a risk are producing that many. Lord knows what Fords cost are in this thing and the last thing they need is un-sold GT 40's in show rooms taking up space when the dealers have to pay for them too. I suspect that the dealers themselves have had imput on what the market will take w/respect with units they can sell. If all are spoken for already they have made a powerful statement in the marketplace. With any luck, maybe they will make more in following years, but who knows.
In the last couple of weeks, I watched an episode of Motor Trend TV which did a high level review of the season's new cars and if I recall correctly, the price they quoted for the GT40 was $125K.
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91 Blk/Blk daily driver
100K+ miles & still going strong
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91 Blk/Blk daily driver
100K+ miles & still going strong
Number9
Guest
- Joined
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- Messages
- 704
Here, here! Saw the modern interpretation at Pebble Beach Concours and it was impressive for a show car, even the interior engine bay bits were well finished. Damn the Ford dealers that won't even take deposits!
[This message has been edited by Number9 (edited 25 September 2002).]
For whats its worth in the "Dupont Registry" a small story on the GT 40. I'll summerize the quotes.
"Three will be built in late 03 to commemorate the 1-2-3 finished in the 1966 24 hrs of Lemans. Afterwards as many as 1000 cars are to be built per year with a total run of 2500. Saleen Industries w/coordinate the production of the car w/body & chassis by Mayflower Vehicle Systems. Powertrain by Roush Industries and interior by Lear Inc."
"Pricing has been supposed at anywhere between $100k to $250k. If your on a budget wou'll be glad to know that late speculation seemes to have settled on the low end at about $125k."
[This message has been edited by Tom Larkins (edited 02 January 2003).]
"Three will be built in late 03 to commemorate the 1-2-3 finished in the 1966 24 hrs of Lemans. Afterwards as many as 1000 cars are to be built per year with a total run of 2500. Saleen Industries w/coordinate the production of the car w/body & chassis by Mayflower Vehicle Systems. Powertrain by Roush Industries and interior by Lear Inc."
"Pricing has been supposed at anywhere between $100k to $250k. If your on a budget wou'll be glad to know that late speculation seemes to have settled on the low end at about $125k."
[This message has been edited by Tom Larkins (edited 02 January 2003).]
I saw it first time at the auto show the past weekend. They are beautiful!
1967 GT-40
[This message has been edited by AznSXgirl (edited 04 January 2003).]
Pretty pics, AznSXgirl! That is one of the three(!) GT40s that are going to be auctioned off at the upcoming Barrett Jackson event:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/events/scottsdale/vehicles/cardetail_list.asp?id=171399
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/events/scottsdale/vehicles/cardetail_list.asp?id=172649
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/events/scottsdale/vehicles/cardetail_list.asp?id=172151
*Sigh* if I only had a spare couple of million dollars...
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/events/scottsdale/vehicles/cardetail_list.asp?id=171399
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/events/scottsdale/vehicles/cardetail_list.asp?id=172649
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/events/scottsdale/vehicles/cardetail_list.asp?id=172151
*Sigh* if I only had a spare couple of million dollars...
I think in many ways the new Ford GT is the car that many NSXers really want.
When I read all the desire for 400+ hp and ultimate performance, in a mid-engine, high-tech package I think the new Ford GT might just be what many of us really want.
It also has the added bonus of being a true Ferrari competitor and having a true racing heritage.
It's also nice to know that you would be able to get the car serviced at certain Ford dealerships too.
-Jim
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1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
2003 MINI Cooper S - On Order - All Black
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html
When I read all the desire for 400+ hp and ultimate performance, in a mid-engine, high-tech package I think the new Ford GT might just be what many of us really want.
It also has the added bonus of being a true Ferrari competitor and having a true racing heritage.
It's also nice to know that you would be able to get the car serviced at certain Ford dealerships too.
-Jim
------------------
1992 NSX Red/Blk 5 spd #0330
1991 NSX Blk/Blk Auto #3070 (Sold)
1974 Vette 454 4 spd Wht/Blk
1976 Honda Accord 5 spd, 3 door Blue/Blue
1977 Honda Accord - Custom - Under Construction
2003 MINI Cooper S - On Order - All Black
1986 Chevy Suburban
http://homepage.mac.com/jimanders/PhotoAlbum1.html
Ah, GT40.
My dreams in my teens!
By the way, somethings not right about that car in the previous post.
The original GT40's had a bulge in the roof over the drivers head. I guess it was to accomodate the taller driver with a helmet.
I also never saw one that had "Ford" spelled out on the front nose.
[This message has been edited by pbassjo (edited 04 January 2003).]
My dreams in my teens!
By the way, somethings not right about that car in the previous post.
The original GT40's had a bulge in the roof over the drivers head. I guess it was to accomodate the taller driver with a helmet.
I also never saw one that had "Ford" spelled out on the front nose.
[This message has been edited by pbassjo (edited 04 January 2003).]
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